[Sales@Evolve]

Hi,

Not all remap companies do the same thing. This would imply that your buying the exact same product from them all.

This is not the case at all. Alot of these remaps are very different. Some may indeed give the same power but it's how they are achieving that power that is different.

Just an example - BMW E46 330d mapped by one company gave really good results but threw out loads of black smoke. Same car, different company - car felt exactly the same - hardly any black smoke at all. Something is obvioulsy very different there. This is just a simple example.

Unfortunately alot of remap companies do indeed just talk figures without fact and just bump up their figures without any evidence whatso ever to win business. One company wants to show they are better than the other in some way and the only way they seem to know how to do this is go in and type a higher power figure than their competitors. The competitors do the same and soon we are in a situation where we have silly inflated power figures.

The E46 M3 and E60 M5 are a prime example of this!

Thanks
Sal

[Serjames]

Sal, who do you work for then ?

Sorry if it's been mentioned and I didn't spot it... caught a fly in my eye at xxxmph trying to catch Tony on the Axx with the roof down...

lol

SJ

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by Serjames

Sal, who do you work for then ?

Sorry if it's been mentioned and I didn't spot it... caught a fly in my eye at xxxmph trying to catch Tony on the Axx with the roof down...

lol

SJ

James, there are only supposed to be 2 x's in the XXmph, not 3!!

[Serjames]

nope tony it was definitely xxx you know, like 071mph 055mph etc etc ?

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by Serjames

nope tony it was definitely xxx you know, like 071mph 055mph etc etc ?

Oh, ok. I was very much I get it now - 042mph on the uphill righthander. Nothing too outlandish really

[Sales@Evolve]

Originally Posted by Serjames

Sal, who do you work for then ?

Sorry if it's been mentioned and I didn't spot it... caught a fly in my eye at xxxmph trying to catch Tony on the Axx with the roof down...

lol

SJ

Hi SJ,

I'm not really on here to advertise my company or look for work and only revealed it because 2 members on here clearly caught onto who I was as my company sponsors some other forums and I use the same name there.

I generally and understandably have an interest in these types of topics and like to sometimes get involved.

Due to some people thinking otherwise (and I do understand) I would prefer to be a normal member.

What did you do with the fly seeing as your eye caught it?

Thanks
Sal

[squeezebm]

Originally Posted by M5Pilot

Hi SJ,

I'm not really on here to advertise my company or look for work and only revealed it because 2 members on here clearly caught onto who I was as my company sponsors some other forums and I use the same name there.

I generally and understandably have an interest in these types of topics and like to sometimes get involved.

My company is Evolve Automotive.

What did you do with the fly seeing as your eye caught it?

Thanks
Sal

Of course not


Sal, you have mail

[Serjames]

aww shucks I still haven't worked out who you are....

But I understand your reasoning.

Actually it's refreshing to meet a "vendor" who actually has an interest in being a member for the sake of being a member.... so WELCOME.

I hope we can see you at the next meet - bring freebies please

SJ

[DaveC]

Originally Posted by e-maps

Dyno's are no good for new cars these days UNLESS you can get the factory tester to put the car into dyno mode or you will get different results everytime. The new Merc's can be put into dyno mode using the hidden dash board functions, shame BMW dont do anything like that

The Merc Dyno Mode only affects the traction control and the E46 M3 is to disable a lowered max rpm. The explanations on the Dyno day pt2 thread were somewhat 'interesting':

First: Look at this vid, does it look like the power drops off? - as if we can tell from a video

Later: "The power will start to tail off at around 4200rpm, even the stock map does this as fuelling tails off. You can see this on the stock dyno plot. We bring the fuelling back down to stock values around this rpm to protect the engine, as with the standard BMW map." - hmm so you are doing it eh? and when you bring the values down to stock the mapped engine produces less power than the standard? odd that and in total contradiction to your next point.

Finally: "The reason the power drops off is due to the safety limiters imposed in the map by BMW. These safety maps are within the engine mapping, DSC, gearbox and steering angle system. If we wanted we could switch off these limiters which only come into effect when on the dyno." Uh huh, dangerous place that rolling road.

If there was a rolling road nanny mode triggered by the front wheels not rotating it should trigger for an unmapped car as well. Or are you claiming the car somehow knows its been mapped to produce too much power (something BMW are actively trying to prevent) but only bothers to go into nanny mode on a rolling road? That makes zero sense.

I could use a huge pinch of salt, delivered by the truckload.

[- Paul -]

Originally Posted by Serjames

Sal, who do you work for then ?

Sorry if it's been mentioned and I didn't spot it... caught a fly in my eye at xxxmph trying to catch Tony on the Axx with the roof down...

lol

SJ

To save you looking back one page

Evolve

[Sales@Evolve]

Dave C - fantastic post!

[BoBBoB]

Just to add to the confusion, my understanding is that one of the first 335d remaps was peppernicks ? the map that he had done was at CA and it was the very same "BMW Development Map", now if this is the case how come he was able to rolling road the car without this dyno mode kicking in ?

POST no.18http://forum.bmwcarmagazine.com/view...r=asc&start=40

???

[Bumps]

Carl, great review and hope you're happy with it

[DaveC]

Originally Posted by BoBBoB

Just to add to the confusion, my understanding is that one of the first 335d remaps was peppernicks ? the map that he had done was at CA and it was the very same "BMW Development Map", now if this is the case how come he was able to rolling road the car without this dyno mode kicking in ?

POST no.18http://forum.bmwcarmagazine.com/view...r=asc&start=40

???

Well I'm finding his statements a little odd too (sadly the graphs have gone) - First he claims "Gained 47 BHP and 65lb/ft of torque at the wheels, estimated crank values based on a 22% loss in the torque converter, 345 BHP and 512lb/ft" - sounds good, but then in a later post "Only gripe, at 3950 RPM on the dyno, the gearbox nanny kicked in". Sorry but if you knock almost 1000rpm of the top end you wont see the claimed increase in BHP due simply to the math.

Something's odd.

[Ant397]

The wonderful world of mapping Hey!

There are some very good points in this topic, even if it does get thrown off at times. But the basic problem again is people posting things without knowing the full story or the facts.

Mapping is mostly about preference in my opinion. Ignore cheap remaps or tuning boxes that only change basic fuelling to get more power; and you’re left with a handful of reputable companies that all have the same field in which to play on... An engine only has a few ECU variables which can be changed to make power from a remap: Amount of fuel injected, timing, boost pressure etc etc so its only by changing these values that any company's remap can be better or worse than another and who knows which is really the best way anyway? Its all personal choice and experience.

When choosing a remap from the top companies, all you are actually doing is stating which marketing you buy into.

People can post glowing reviews and build up a following for a certain company and who is to say that they are the best? Certainly some have more experience than others and some have a better backup than others, but all you are actually buying is a stated power figure and their way of attracting you to them.

I have dealt with pretty much all the companies stated in one way or another through our own development program.

Our first 04 E46 330d 204bhp was given a simple standard ECU remap by Superchips UK and then entered into Gumball 2004 with 250bhp. It covered 4000 miles in a week with the engine being subjected to an almost constant high load and didnt skip a beat... so a good remap right?

From this, we wanted more power for Gumball 2005 and had 300bhp in view. It was then that we approach the majority of UK tuners and remappers and spoke about the work that we wanted and the power we wanted to achieve... The response was poor as no one had done this or wanted to take it on in the UK. Eventually, we found some more info through a contact in Portugal... a certain Miguel that has been mentioned.

It is true that Miguel did remap our 330d for gumball 2005, but it left the workshop in Gloucester with a terrible transmission grumble, would cut-out at 4000rpm, slipping clutch and throwing plumes of black smoke out of the back... so bad remap in my eyes?

It is here that things started to go bad as he went back to Portugal and we had a matter of weeks to go until we had to be on the Start line for Gumball 2005 with X thousand pounds already paid. In a way he left us in the lurch and we had to source a reputable UK company to fix the problems.

Originally Posted by RCE

Just a curiosity, the 330d that compete in Gumball was made by Miguel Patrocinio from MB Power in Portugal.

Regards,
Rick

Originally Posted by RCE

Sorry, but Miguel Patrocinio of MB Power told me that he made that car and the owner never pay the service....

I am the owner and he did not make our car. By a long shot. The question of us not paying his service bill is a matter for discussion, but the facts are that his remap didnt work, we paid almost £2000 for the services and couldn’t get him back to the UK to fix it any time soon. We needed a clutch for the car and he sent one over. It is the £500 for this clutch that I refused to pay based on the fact that it costs us over £500 to fix his errors and he was reserved in coming back to help us out... I explained this to him and his UK contact on the phone and he never once contacted me again and its now 4 years later and I still have the same telephone number...

Now, have I ever spoke a bad word about him as a tuner on any internet site until now? No.

If Portuguese Miguel wants to preach that he tuned our car for the Gumball, then as long as he tells the full factually correct story, I wish him and his family all the best.

From his poor work, we started to work with Superchips UK and have built a very respectable partnership. They are the market leaders in my eyes and from my own personal research, I dont trust my cars to anyone else. Our current weapon of choice is a Sapphire Black E90 330d manual with 320bhp and it is a monster. 335d's are not comparable with their 'slushmatic' gearboxes. We have remapped 14 of our own cars in the last 4 years with no component failures. Some of you will know that we had a 335d last year and of the 6 weeks that I owned it, it was in BMW service for 4 of them... I finally bought a lemon.

Side by side at 40mph with the 335d at the spoken 340bhp and our 330d d3 as we call it at 320bhp, the d3 gets 4 car lengths straight away with instant acceleration while the 335d smoothly puts the power down and takes up the rains.

I have driven more performance tuned BMW diesels than you can shake a stick at and I still think that at the end of the day its personal preference as to who remaps your car.

Simon at chipped UK offered to remap our cars, but I thankfully declined his offer as I know he might have done just as good as what Superchips do for us with the variables that they have to play with, but it really is piece of mind and personal choice at the end of the day... Nothing more.

Anthony.
www.antandpete.co.uk
www.speedreligion.net

[NFS]

Originally Posted by M5Pilot

Not all remap companies do the same thing. This would imply that your buying the exact same product from them all.

This is not the case at all. Alot of these remaps are very different. Some may indeed give the same power but it's how they are achieving that power that is different.

This is splitting hairs. Fundamentally you are all doing the same thing.

Your maps may be different or they may be the same. The point is that you can't easily compare a remap and choose one you like. People take the plunge based on marketing, word of mouth, previous experience and gut feel.

Originally Posted by Ant397

I have driven more performance tuned BMW diesels than you can shake a stick at and I still think that at the end of the day its personal preference as to who remaps your car.

Excellent post. I totally agree with the above point.

[Sales@Evolve]

Ant397 - brilliant post.

I'm glad someone has mentioned the marketing aspect clearly.

Thanks
Sal

[Sales@Evolve]

Hi Guys,

as stated previously, I did say I would post up dyno graphs of an E90 335d.



This car was brutal on the road to say the least! Infact, I was so impressed I am going to join you guys and get myself a 335d Sport.

This is power at wheels and torque.

I think the graph should CLEARLY show that all remaps are not the same. No drop off in power at low or high end compared to other graphs that I have seen here.

One very important thing about this graph - Our machine has the new Dyno Dynamics software which is very different to the old style which your more used to. The new software does not have graph smoothing and therefore will look far less smooth compared to the older DOS based version.

My own M5 has been on both old and new softwares and on the old softwre the graph is completely smooth and on the new one it's full of troughs and peaks. The first time I dynoed my M5 on the new software I thought something was very wrong!

Many Thanks
Sal

[ChrisMWard]

Great thread guys, keep the open discussion going.

Personally, I love the way the standard 335d runs round to a not so diesel like 5000RPM (unlike the 120d which gives up the ghost at about 4250RPM).

Would anyone care to comment on the ability to rev, or lack of it, on their re-mapped car? Now I know you've got more torque low down and don't need to rev it as high but I am interested.

Regards

Chris

[booforty]

Great post Ant397!

[big pimp]

great post Ant.

do you mind me asking what, other than a remap, has pushed your 330d to 320bhp?

[Evil Diesel]

Originally Posted by ChrisMWard

Great thread guys, keep the open discussion going.

Personally, I love the way the standard 335d runs round to a not so diesel like 5000RPM (unlike the 120d which gives up the ghost at about 4250RPM).

Would anyone care to comment on the ability to rev, or lack of it, on their re-mapped car? Now I know you've got more torque low down and don't need to rev it as high but I am interested.

Regards

Chris

I have no issues revving to the redline.