N54 dodgy knocking coming from the engine?

Chrisbkk · 07-06-2019, 05:30 AM

Hi there,

Ive just installed an N54 engine and box into my car. The engine has been sitting for quite some time.

At approximately 2000-2500 rpm there is an awful knocking sound. It does seem to be coming from the top end (i think).

Anyone know what it might be? I was another thread talking about lifter issues.

What do you guys think?

Thanks,

Chris

See the video from the link below:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-0...TvGuBrvefRsVxR

You can hear the horrible noise from around 22 seconds into the video

Chrisbkk · 07-07-2019, 10:20 PM

any ideas at all? I really need some help here?

dpaul · 07-08-2019, 06:25 AM

Rod bearing. So sorry.

Chrisbkk · 07-08-2019, 06:51 AM

DO you think so? maybe the video isnt letting you hear it properly. It sounds like its coming from the cylinder head?

Would low fuel pressure ever give you a knocking sound? The reason I ask is I think the fuel pump needs replacing.

Thanks,

CHris

cortez08 · 07-08-2019, 06:59 AM

I would check the fuel pump first. All kinds of things on these engines can sound like rod knock. While your knock sound seems to follow rpm (not a good thing), it does sound similar to an ac compressor problem like the guy below was experiencing. I hope it is an easy fix for you!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lNHwchy12Lo

type-dRew · 07-08-2019, 07:46 AM

Rod bearing, clear as day

dpaul · 07-08-2019, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cortez08

I would check the fuel pump first. All kinds of things on these engines can sound like rod knock. While your knock sound seems to follow rpm (not a good thing), it does sound similar to an ac compressor problem like the guy below was experiencing. I hope it is an easy fix for you!

Sorry, almost no chance of this being AC compressor. Rod knock.

RoughKnight · 07-08-2019, 11:42 AM

RIP

tylerboland01 · 07-09-2019, 10:37 AM

That's definitely rod knock.

vtl · 07-10-2019, 09:17 PM

Remove and inspect the oil filter and hope its not full of gold metal particles

Chrisbkk · 07-11-2019, 05:02 AM

Hi guys,

Is there any chance it can be a sticky valve or lifter or rocker issue? and are there any checks you can do on the diagnostic machine to confirm what is wrong with the engine whether its rod bearings or top end?

If so which menu do i need to go into and what data am i looking for to tell me what it might be?

THanks again...

Chris

dpaul · 07-11-2019, 06:20 AM

Do what vtl suggests. That's it. You may have to cut open the oil filter and spread it out to have the best view. I have a pretty high confidence you'll see metal. I've heard that noise - it's quite characteristic.

There are no codes for bearing failure that diagnostic software would reveal.

nissubaru · 07-11-2019, 08:33 AM

110% rod knock

Chrisbkk · 07-13-2019, 02:50 AM

Hi guys

I took the oil filter out and...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10L...u7yuGN9uwj4aDi

and another engine video...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=109...9zGz4x6pXCjRD_

Chrisbkk · 07-13-2019, 03:28 AM

and here are some pictures of the filter...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10W...ZIqMA9rtL2FvBB

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10V...WNXOn6Us7vvHY-

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10T...RYH0HcpEoj04pn

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10S...j8HcdzpU6MSrk_

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10R...ZG5q69X920U1Cy

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10M...lDvcgN8QTTeg7Z

Does this confirm its shell bearings?

and can these be changed without taking the engine out? or is it better to pull the engine out and do it?

Also, if it is rod bearings can i change only the ones that have wear? or should I change them all?

Should I also change the main bearings whilst its open? or just the rod bearings?

and should i use standard bearings or are there harder or coated ones i should use? if so where do i get them from and whats the prices?

Thanks again for all your help....

Chris

dpaul · 07-13-2019, 11:32 AM

I just can't tell from your pictures. If there are tiny metallic bits embedded in the filter matrix, that is conclusive evidence.

IMHO, any degradation of a rod bearing means the engine is trash, or useful only as a core for exchange with a professionally rebuilt one. There are a few posters who claim to have "rebuilt" N54 motors with damaged rod and/or main bearing in their garage. However, to properly clean and inspect, you have to completely disassemble the motor. To properly reassemble, you need special tools and some would say a certain amount of experience.

I have rebuilt a fair number of other motors myself but I would not try with the N54.

Of course, you could expose and remove the rod bearings and inspect the crank. If the crank journals are not scored, you could install new bearings. I've seen a few N54s with rod bearing failure torn down and done one myself - in all cases the crank was damaged. Maybe you'd get lucky but you haven't been so far.

As far as inspecting the bearings, you could in theory get the oil pan off while the engine was still in the car and remove the rod big end cap bolts. Just seems like a waste of time to me.

nissubaru · 07-14-2019, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpaul

I just can't tell from your pictures. If there are tiny metallic bits embedded in the filter matrix, that is conclusive evidence.

IMHO, any degradation of a rod bearing means the engine is trash, or useful only as a core for exchange with a professionally rebuilt one. There are a few posters who claim to have "rebuilt" N54 motors with damaged rod and/or main bearing in their garage. However, to properly clean and inspect, you have to completely disassemble the motor. To properly reassemble, you need special tools and some would say a certain amount of experience.

I have rebuilt a fair number of other motors myself but I would not try with the N54.

Of course, you could expose and remove the rod bearings and inspect the crank. If the crank journals are not scored, you could install new bearings. I've seen a few N54s with rod bearing failure torn down and done one myself - in all cases the crank was damaged. Maybe you'd get lucky but you haven't been so far.

As far as inspecting the bearings, you could in theory get the oil pan off while the engine was still in the car and remove the rod big end cap bolts. Just seems like a waste of time to me.

Pretty much this. Although from the pictures it does seem like there are a few sizeable pieces of bearing material. As stated, you could pull the oil pan to inspect the bearings but it is a waste of time and money if youre paying for the labor. I opted to pull the motor first and put it on a stand before removing the oil pan. Wasn't trying to mess with dropping the subframe just to confirm I'm shit out of luck

type-dRew · 07-14-2019, 11:43 AM

Lol no. You don't just bearing slap a n54. And you definitely don't do just do a couple of the rods. 😂

That bearing material is everywhere in every passage of the engine. You want you to reuse it then it gets taken down to nothing and cleaned out and put back together.

Thought I was reading a post on a Chevy sbc forum from '99

Find a good used motor or pull that and strip it down

Chrisbkk · 07-17-2019, 03:46 AM

Hi guys,

I will be taking the engine out this week to check the status of the bearings and crank.

I intend on running the car on the stock turbos with large intercooler, custom downpipes with single 3 inch exhaust with no cats or boxes until the rear muffler, K&N panel filter and controlled by MHD or JB4. (If the turbos go I will most likely replace with a pair of GT28 Garrett BB turbos.

With the bearings gone do you think i can get away with replacing just the rod bearings and try and chean the journals from the bottom or do you think its nessisary to strip the whole engine and build it back up?

What are the best bearings to buy for a sensible price? And What headgasket should I get if a full rebuild is in order?

Thanks,

Chris

dpaul · 07-17-2019, 05:29 AM

Respectfully, it is clear from your last post that you should not be attempting to rebuild this engine yourself. If you want to save a little cash, get a used motor from a salvage yard.

Chrisbkk · 07-17-2019, 06:02 AM

Im not doing the rebuild myself. But i do need to find the parts and i wanted your opinions as to if a full strip down is nessisary so i dont get ripped by a garage telling me I need all sorts of things when i dont?

What are the best bearings to buy for a sensible price? And What headgasket should I get if a full rebuild is in order?

feuer · 07-17-2019, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisbkk

Im not doing the rebuild myself. But i do need to find the parts and i wanted your opinions as to if a full strip down is nessisary so i dont get ripped by a garage telling me I need all sorts of things when i dont?

What are the best bearings to buy for a sensible price? And What headgasket should I get if a full rebuild is in order?

lol since you aren't mechanically inclined to do this yourself the shop can tell you that you need parts regardless of any parts list we give here as you, again, won't know.

07-06-2019, 05:30 AM	#1
Chrisbkk Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: e36 e60 e90 a31 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Bangkok iTrader: (0)	N54 dodgy knocking coming from the engine? Hi there, Ive just installed an N54 engine and box into my car. The engine has been sitting for quite some time. At approximately 2000-2500 rpm there is an awful knocking sound. It does seem to be coming from the top end (i think). Anyone know what it might be? I was another thread talking about lifter issues. What do you guys think? Thanks, Chris See the video from the link below: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-0...TvGuBrvefRsVxR You can hear the horrible noise from around 22 seconds into the video Last edited by Chrisbkk; 07-07-2019 at 10:19 PM..
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07-07-2019, 10:20 PM	#2
Chrisbkk Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: e36 e60 e90 a31 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Bangkok iTrader: (0)	any ideas at all? I really need some help here?
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07-08-2019, 06:25 AM	#3
dpaul Lieutenant Colonel 654 Rep 1,893 Posts Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Boston iTrader: (3)	Rod bearing. So sorry.
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07-08-2019, 06:51 AM	#4
Chrisbkk Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: e36 e60 e90 a31 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Bangkok iTrader: (0)	DO you think so? maybe the video isnt letting you hear it properly. It sounds like its coming from the cylinder head? Would low fuel pressure ever give you a knocking sound? The reason I ask is I think the fuel pump needs replacing. Thanks, CHris
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07-08-2019, 06:59 AM	#5
cortez08 Private 60 Rep 80 Posts Drives: 2008 335xi Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Lehigh Valley PA iTrader: (0)	I would check the fuel pump first. All kinds of things on these engines can sound like rod knock. While your knock sound seems to follow rpm (not a good thing), it does sound similar to an ac compressor problem like the guy below was experiencing. I hope it is an easy fix for you! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lNHwchy12Lo
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-08-2019, 07:46 AM	#6
type-dRew Major 641 Rep 1,245 Posts Drives: 2009 335i xDrive Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Newport MI iTrader: (0)	Rod bearing, clear as day __________________ 2009 335i xDrive AT / 177k+ miles PSP 750ic / Fuel-It! Stage 1 / BMS CP / Sutphin Tuning / RFP E50 11.61 @ 117.5 New setup; Covid 19Ts on RFP 93 + ARM inlets, dp, VTT cp and PSP outlets
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07-08-2019, 11:42 AM	#8
RoughKnight Private First Class 54 Rep 174 Posts Drives: BMW 335xi N54 Auto Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Ottawa Ontario iTrader: (0)	RIP
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07-09-2019, 10:37 AM	#9
tylerboland01 Private First Class 53 Rep 151 Posts Drives: 08 335i Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Magnolia, TX iTrader: (0)	That's definitely rod knock.
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07-10-2019, 09:17 PM	#10
vtl Brigadier General 1493 Rep 3,148 Posts Drives: 2008 BMW 135i MT Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	Remove and inspect the oil filter and hope its not full of gold metal particles __________________ Build Thread
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07-11-2019, 05:02 AM	#11
Chrisbkk Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: e36 e60 e90 a31 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Bangkok iTrader: (0)	Hi guys, Is there any chance it can be a sticky valve or lifter or rocker issue? and are there any checks you can do on the diagnostic machine to confirm what is wrong with the engine whether its rod bearings or top end? If so which menu do i need to go into and what data am i looking for to tell me what it might be? THanks again... Chris
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07-11-2019, 06:20 AM	#12
dpaul Lieutenant Colonel 654 Rep 1,893 Posts Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Boston iTrader: (3)	Do what vtl suggests. That's it. You may have to cut open the oil filter and spread it out to have the best view. I have a pretty high confidence you'll see metal. I've heard that noise - it's quite characteristic. There are no codes for bearing failure that diagnostic software would reveal.
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07-11-2019, 08:33 AM	#13
nissubaru Lieutenant 233 Rep 564 Posts Drives: 09 335i MSport + 1990 300ZX TT Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Philadelphia iTrader: (0)	110% rod knock
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07-13-2019, 02:50 AM	#14
Chrisbkk Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: e36 e60 e90 a31 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Bangkok iTrader: (0)	Hi guys I took the oil filter out and... https://drive.google.com/open?id=10L...u7yuGN9uwj4aDi and another engine video... https://drive.google.com/open?id=109...9zGz4x6pXCjRD_
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-13-2019, 03:28 AM	#15
Chrisbkk Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: e36 e60 e90 a31 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Bangkok iTrader: (0)	and here are some pictures of the filter... https://drive.google.com/open?id=10W...ZIqMA9rtL2FvBB https://drive.google.com/open?id=10V...WNXOn6Us7vvHY- https://drive.google.com/open?id=10T...RYH0HcpEoj04pn https://drive.google.com/open?id=10S...j8HcdzpU6MSrk_ https://drive.google.com/open?id=10R...ZG5q69X920U1Cy https://drive.google.com/open?id=10M...lDvcgN8QTTeg7Z Does this confirm its shell bearings? and can these be changed without taking the engine out? or is it better to pull the engine out and do it? Also, if it is rod bearings can i change only the ones that have wear? or should I change them all? Should I also change the main bearings whilst its open? or just the rod bearings? and should i use standard bearings or are there harder or coated ones i should use? if so where do i get them from and whats the prices? Thanks again for all your help.... Chris Last edited by Chrisbkk; 07-13-2019 at 03:38 AM..
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07-13-2019, 11:32 AM	#16
dpaul Lieutenant Colonel 654 Rep 1,893 Posts Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Boston iTrader: (3)	I just can't tell from your pictures. If there are tiny metallic bits embedded in the filter matrix, that is conclusive evidence. IMHO, any degradation of a rod bearing means the engine is trash, or useful only as a core for exchange with a professionally rebuilt one. There are a few posters who claim to have "rebuilt" N54 motors with damaged rod and/or main bearing in their garage. However, to properly clean and inspect, you have to completely disassemble the motor. To properly reassemble, you need special tools and some would say a certain amount of experience. I have rebuilt a fair number of other motors myself but I would not try with the N54. Of course, you could expose and remove the rod bearings and inspect the crank. If the crank journals are not scored, you could install new bearings. I've seen a few N54s with rod bearing failure torn down and done one myself - in all cases the crank was damaged. Maybe you'd get lucky but you haven't been so far. As far as inspecting the bearings, you could in theory get the oil pan off while the engine was still in the car and remove the rod big end cap bolts. Just seems like a waste of time to me.
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07-14-2019, 11:43 AM	#18
type-dRew Major 641 Rep 1,245 Posts Drives: 2009 335i xDrive Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Newport MI iTrader: (0)	Lol no. You don't just bearing slap a n54. And you definitely don't do just do a couple of the rods. 😂 That bearing material is everywhere in every passage of the engine. You want you to reuse it then it gets taken down to nothing and cleaned out and put back together. Thought I was reading a post on a Chevy sbc forum from '99 Find a good used motor or pull that and strip it down __________________ 2009 335i xDrive AT / 177k+ miles PSP 750ic / Fuel-It! Stage 1 / BMS CP / Sutphin Tuning / RFP E50 11.61 @ 117.5 New setup; Covid 19Ts on RFP 93 + ARM inlets, dp, VTT cp and PSP outlets
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07-17-2019, 03:46 AM	#19
Chrisbkk Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: e36 e60 e90 a31 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Bangkok iTrader: (0)	Hi guys, I will be taking the engine out this week to check the status of the bearings and crank. I intend on running the car on the stock turbos with large intercooler, custom downpipes with single 3 inch exhaust with no cats or boxes until the rear muffler, K&N panel filter and controlled by MHD or JB4. (If the turbos go I will most likely replace with a pair of GT28 Garrett BB turbos. With the bearings gone do you think i can get away with replacing just the rod bearings and try and chean the journals from the bottom or do you think its nessisary to strip the whole engine and build it back up? What are the best bearings to buy for a sensible price? And What headgasket should I get if a full rebuild is in order? Thanks, Chris
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07-17-2019, 05:29 AM	#20
dpaul Lieutenant Colonel 654 Rep 1,893 Posts Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Boston iTrader: (3)	Respectfully, it is clear from your last post that you should not be attempting to rebuild this engine yourself. If you want to save a little cash, get a used motor from a salvage yard.
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07-17-2019, 06:02 AM	#21
Chrisbkk Enlisted Member 4 Rep 34 Posts Drives: e36 e60 e90 a31 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Bangkok iTrader: (0)	Im not doing the rebuild myself. But i do need to find the parts and i wanted your opinions as to if a full strip down is nessisary so i dont get ripped by a garage telling me I need all sorts of things when i dont? What are the best bearings to buy for a sensible price? And What headgasket should I get if a full rebuild is in order?
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