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      02-20-2021, 10:16 AM   #23
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I always used to drive a manual, VW 16v GTI, e34 525is, e34 M5, e39 540i & a e36 328is & they were all better & more engaging than there auto counterparts of the time, obviously not the M5 as there was no auto alternative back in the day.
Move forward to 2006 & the auto gearbox in my 35i & I think it’s great, yes it’s been remapped but it’s still just as engaging as the manual boxes in my previous cars & with the added benefit of not having to change gear & just being easier to drive when in traffic or around town, which for me is 70% of my driving but even around town I can use the stick or paddles for a bit of ‘fun’.

When you do get to a bit of road that you can drive ‘enthusiastically’ on I don’t wish that I was driving a manual, you just need to learn how to use the auto to get the best out of it.
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      02-20-2021, 10:57 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3PedalJake View Post
We're in dark days when even a legit manumatic with a real clutch is put out to pasture. I'm keeping my real 6MT until I move on to an electric, hopefully as my hearse.
Ditto, though I am not as saddened by BMW's newer autos. I was pleasantly surprised at how they shifted. But I'd like to hang on to a manual as long as I can, even if that means going F30 over G20. But for some reason, and I hate to admit this, I'm really liking the G30 5 series. If BMW's going soft on us, at least the 5 series is more made for that.

The electric 3 series should debut in the next few years. I'm very curious about that.
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      02-20-2021, 12:34 PM   #25
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It's kind of funny back in 2015 when I bought my 328i 6MT, there were a dozen or more manual 328i cars on Autotrader and now there are almost none on Autotrader.
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      02-20-2021, 09:44 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
This. ^

Speed of the shift is far, far, far, less important than WHEN the shift happens. When in automatic mode, I don't care how fast the transmission can shift, it still doesn't know when to shift. Usually the argument goes like, "well just use the paddles or shifter" (in manual mode) when you want to drive sportingly. My response is, "well why bother, just get a real manual transmission". Then the response is, "but I can use automatic mode in heavy traffic." And then my response is, "In heavy traffic, who gives a shit how fast the transmission switches gears at 15 MPH."

A manual transmission wins every time if you actually enjoy driving.

And do said manumatics downshift to the proper gear as fast as a manual transmission? No one ever asks that question...
Yes lets not forget the downshift, which even the fastest, crispest DTC is clueless about. If I ever have to give up my quest for the perfect downshift entering a hard turn I'm just going full gizmo with an all-electric fully-self-driving hermetically sealed bubble. It won't even need a steering wheel because who cares, or maybe one of those fake ones like the kiddie car ride at the theme park for when I want to pretend I'm driving.
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      02-20-2021, 09:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chappers 71 View Post
I always used to drive a manual, VW 16v GTI, e34 525is, e34 M5, e39 540i & a e36 328is & they were all better & more engaging than there auto counterparts of the time, obviously not the M5 as there was no auto alternative back in the day.
Move forward to 2006 & the auto gearbox in my 35i & I think itís great, yes itís been remapped but itís still just as engaging as the manual boxes in my previous cars & with the added benefit of not having to change gear & just being easier to drive when in traffic or around town, which for me is 70% of my driving but even around town I can use the stick or paddles for a bit of Ďfuní.

When you do get to a bit of road that you can drive Ďenthusiasticallyí on I donít wish that I was driving a manual, you just need to learn how to use the auto to get the best out of it.
I LOL'd
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      02-21-2021, 12:35 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam View Post
Ditto, though I am not as saddened by BMW's newer autos. I was pleasantly surprised at how they shifted. But I'd like to hang on to a manual as long as I can, even if that means going F30 over G20. But for some reason, and I hate to admit this, I'm really liking the G30 5 series. If BMW's going soft on us, at least the 5 series is more made for that.

The electric 3 series should debut in the next few years. I'm very curious about that.
The new autos shift very nice indeed that's true, and a electric "shifts" even faster and smoother (that is to say not at all), but from the first days our hominin ancestors walked upright we were designed to apply power to the ground with 2 feet, anyone who can't see this is basically a science denier IMO.
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      02-21-2021, 12:37 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3PedalJake View Post
I LOL'd
Mmm, maybe a manual box suites your under powered 330i
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      02-21-2021, 12:42 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by John 070 View Post
I'm quite surprised, those 2022 Caddy Blackwing V cars have manuals standard. HUH??!! The CT5 is > 600 HP I think....and 8 cyl. pushrod.

As far as driveability, manuals should last a lot longer, at least they used to. Sometimes simpler is better. But it is in fact a preference if a person likes to change gears themselves. What is the purpose of having paddle shifters on a car that has a normal automatic transmission? Was it somehow unsatisfying to go from P, to D, to R, to P, back to D?
I am cracking up here. I would seriously own the Caddy, but I think the CT4 the 5 is too big and a bit over the top. I grew up when a Caddy was the old mans barge and a BMW was a sport machine, how times have changed.
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      02-21-2021, 12:48 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Chappers 71 View Post
Mmm, maybe a manual box suites your under powered 330i
It does, especially with the headers & 3.64 diff If you invest in some walnut media mebbe you can catch me on the straightaway
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      02-21-2021, 05:51 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by 3PedalJake View Post
It does, especially with the headers & 3.64 diff If you invest in some walnut media mebbe you can catch me on the straightaway
Yeah, yeah.....yawn
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      02-21-2021, 09:21 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3PedalJake View Post
Yes lets not forget the downshift, which even the fastest, crispest DTC is clueless about. If I ever have to give up my quest for the perfect downshift entering a hard turn I'm just going full gizmo with an all-electric fully-self-driving hermetically sealed bubble. It won't even need a steering wheel because who cares, or maybe one of those fake ones like the kiddie car ride at the theme park for when I want to pretend I'm driving.
With the newest Tesla Model S and Model X steering wheel, we're halfway there already.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      02-21-2021, 11:09 AM   #34
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With the newest Tesla Model S and Model X steering wheel, we're halfway there already.
Are you positive we're not there already? I'm pretty sure that thing is just a remote mount for the infotainment controls so you don't have to reach in front of the screen while you're watching movies going down the highway.
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      02-21-2021, 07:40 PM   #35
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I have a auto 328i and manual 330i.. The manual is alot of fun and I look forward to driving it when I go out. But for sure the auto 328i is relaxing and fun as well. When I want to shift I can use m-/+ mode easily and have been since I got the car. It shifts very fast for a auto and downshifting on it is so fun. Gas mileage on manual is way better, but that all depends on how you shift and what rpm you wanna be in. The GM auto has had a fluid change but after that it has had two trackdays and countless autox sessions. Also it is driven to redline everyday and I use manual mode or D only. I dont use DS. I still havnt had my fluid changed since that one and shifts a hot knife thru tofu!
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      02-21-2021, 09:22 PM   #36
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The short answer: while automatic transmissions work, nothing beats the durability and engagement you get in the manual. I won't buy an automatic. Automatics are for passengers who still want a front-row seat. If you actually want to DRIVE, hold out for the manual, you won't be disappointed.

I own currently own 5 vehicles, guess how many are automatic transmissioned?

Zero.

Here's why, in order of (my) preference:

1. The maintenance side. Even weaker manual transmissions, short of just complete ignorance, neglect, and abuse (and even then it takes a lot), will still function due to their durable yet simple design. Barring unbelievable levels of abuse, rarely does a manual require much beyond a clutch replacement and fluid change. An automatic transmission, on the other hand usually has multiple hydraulic clutch drums (like a motorcyle wet clutch) that inevitably wear out just like the manual clutch, but require extensive disassembly (I've done it, it sucks) to replace, as well as other wear parts like friction bands. They're also historically very finicky about cleanliness for ones that use hydraulic valve bodies. Plenty of other points of hydraulic/electronic failure in an automatic.

2. Total control. In a manual, you are the brain. In an automatic, you have a "simulated brain" or mechanism that does its best to determine what it should be doing according to a set of limited, usually simple inputs and conditions. While some automatics have become quite sophisticated, they will always lack one thing: judgement. This can be a double edged sword in a manual depending on the driver, but consider a common scenario in hauling: an uphill steep grade curve in icy conditions. Any automatic I can think of will downshift under icreasing throttle pressure in this condition, and even with a DSC system the potential for a very dangerous loss of control is still there. Ultimately it boils down to would you rather be the cause of a bad judgement call, or the transmission.

3. Feel. "Rowing your own" just gives you a much more connected, in tune feel with the vehicle. I've never driven an automatic that felt anywhere near as satisfying and in-tune as a manual vehicle.

4. Makes you a better driver. This is debatable, but having to be more aware of conditions and knowing how the vehicle will behave on an instictive level improves your driving (purely opinion)

I had a 1980 F-100 for a while after high school, that's the last automatic I'll ever own.
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      02-22-2021, 01:14 AM   #37
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Unless you specifically need or want an AT because you commute in LA or something, do yourself a favor and hold out for a 6MT.
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      02-22-2021, 01:31 AM   #38
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Unless you specifically need or want an AT because you commute in LA or something, do yourself a favor and hold out for a 6MT.
Even in LA manual is fine. Its San Fransisco thats terrible LOL. Those hills are so steep. Even rookie limo drivers get stuck at the top cuz its to long
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      02-22-2021, 09:49 AM   #39
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The only manual I didn't care for was a friends pickup with a three on the tree.
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      02-23-2021, 07:16 PM   #40
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Even in LA manual is fine. Its San Fransisco thats terrible LOL. Those hills are so steep. Even rookie limo drivers get stuck at the top cuz its to long
SF hills are fine I've been doing it on a stick shift since I was 15. Sure the stop sign at the top of Lombard is stressful but it's never actually been an issue. The situation you could really get in trouble is if the car is SEVERELY underpowered, like a 60's Beetle, that simply does not have the torque to start off from a standstill on the hills.

Fuck LA traffic tho (although I've never minded the 'driving a manual' aspect of it, more the 'why tf is there a traffic jam at 1:30am' part). Life's all about what you're used to
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      02-24-2021, 07:22 AM   #41
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Manuals are more fun, but with that said my auto isn't terrible. It doesn't ruin the car. My other vehicle is a manual (Jeep Wrangler) so being able to switch between them when I want is nice.

I'd say if you really want a manual to hold out for one, but I tried that and searched for almost a year. It was hard enough for me to find a RWD auto never mind a RWD manual. Everything in my area of New England seems to be XDrive auto. I found one manual and it was way over priced and in poor condition.

If you won't settle for anything besides RWD manual then you'll need to expand your search nation-wide and be prepared to travel/ship something.
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      02-25-2021, 03:40 PM   #42
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Looks like i'm going to hold out for one. Thanks for the replies guys!
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      02-26-2021, 06:58 PM   #43
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I think the ZF6HP is a decent automatic. The many manual BMWs I drove had so so shifting feel. Even the venerable M2 didn't have the satisfying rifle bolt action that I am used to.

The 135i DCT is pretty awesome. My wife's X1 ZF8 is very good too. The only reason I would pick a manual 3-series BMW is ease of maintenance.
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