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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > Shutting Down Under Load



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      09-12-2018, 11:18 PM   #23
ptpending
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it is quite bad tune because stock tune should write plenty of codes on fuel pressure, etc
the aggressive tune with a such mileage usually mean that some of the injectors start to leak and dde shut down engine when pressure goes below the line
also with that mileage crankshaft sensor can fail, in that case sometimes DDE cannot register any codes
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      10-27-2018, 10:47 AM   #24
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Any update?
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      10-27-2018, 02:30 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dsleeper View Post
Any update?
Life's gotten in the way lately, so I haven't had much time to tinker with it. I did clean the fuel tank a few weeks ago. It wasn't as bad as I anticipated, but not good either. Some water in the bottom, some goo on the driver side pickup screen, and quite a bit of rust from the pump arms. Not sure why they rusted like that, it seems pretty excessive.

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During my last few runs while running Testo, I was making some big white clouds. I had dropped the exhaust afterwards and saw it had some oil in the downpipe. I assume the oil is coming from one of the turbos. I was able to grab the turbine shaft on the low pressure turbo, and it has no radial play, but a bit of axial play. I haven't gotten to the high pressure turbine yet. I'm hesitant to drive it with that large of an oil leak. If it's leaking that much from the exhaust, I'm afraid of how much it leaks into the intake side. The last thing I need is a runaway.

Here's the smoke show:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bBF...ew?usp=sharing
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      10-27-2018, 02:36 PM   #26
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But does it still shut down under WOT?
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      10-27-2018, 02:43 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by 335dsleeper View Post
But does it still shut down under WOT?
Yes. You can hear it in the video in my last post. It cuts out, I coasted to a stop, and you can hear it restart. Like I said, I haven't had much time to mess with it.
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      10-27-2018, 02:46 PM   #28
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I didn't watch the video due to poor internet connectivity.

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Originally Posted by jeepinvader View Post
Yes. You can hear it in the video in my last post. It cuts out, I coasted to a stop, and you can hear it restart. Like I said, I haven't had much time to mess with it.
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      02-12-2019, 01:23 AM   #29
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Alright, here comes a long winded, frustrated update.

Since my last post, I've gotten a fresh tune from 335dsleeper (very helpful and knowledgeable guy). Didn't help, still stalling everywhere. The tune that was on it was most likely a poor copy of a BPC tune with DTCs disabled. So at least now it's throwing some useful DTCs. One code that has been present since is 493F: Presupply-pressure sensor, signal.

Okay, must be the low pressure fuel pump, right? There is a local guy that spun a main bearing and just did an engine swap, so he was parting out the donor car. He's been super helpful as well. I got the low pressure pump from him, swapped it into mine, no dice. Still stalling, still throwing the 493F code, as well as other rail pressure related codes.

He loaned me a flow control valve, volume control valve, rail pressure sensor, and LPFP control module to throw at it and see what sticks. I swapped the volume control valve on the back of the rail first, which seemed to help a ton. No stalls, plenty of power. Something still wasn't right though, I felt a miss on hard acceleration now and then, and it went into limp mode once. Logged rail pressure with testo, and sure enough, rail pressure is not making the commanded pressure. Okay, so I swapped the pressure control valve on the back of the HPFP. Same symptoms, hard miss on acceleration, and inconsistent rail pressure. Next I swapped the rail pressure sensor, with of course the same results.

That 493F code is still there, so just to rule out the supply pressure, I rigged up a gauge right before the HPFP, and I'm getting 60psi idle, 70psi cruising, back to 60 if I lay into it, and a quick spike to 80 when I let off before settling back to about 70psi.

So what are we down to? HPFP or injectors, right? I ran the backyard injector test with hoses off of each leakage port. No two are the same, but after watching some examples of other m57 injector leak tests, I don't think any of these injectors could be causing this problem. So, HPFP time.

Here's where it gets interesting. I bought a known good 60k mile r70 from 335dsleeper. Finally, we're ready to rock and roll! I swap the HPFP and... the stall is back and better than ever. What the flying F**K! Now I can't get anywhere near WOT before it stalls out on me. On top of that, now my supply pressure gauge is consistently reading between 100-120psi. Why would swapping the HPFP cause the increase in pressure from the LPFP? Just for shits n gigs I swapped the LPFP control module. It was f**king hot! Like I couldn't hold it, hot. Put the new one on, and still getting 100+psi and still have the 493F code. After just a few minutes it was starting to get warm too, so I shut it down.

So... I assume the DDE is commanding everything the LPFP can supply. That would make sense, considering the 493F code. If it doesn't know what's being supplied, it'll demand everything it can deliver. But why would it be making 60psi on the old HPFP, and 110psi on the new HPFP, even though the same 493F code has been there the whole time? The HPFP can't be starved for fuel with 100+psi feeding it, but my rail pressure is still all over the place. Even at idle, it fluctuates between 260 and 350 bar.

So now I'm left with the following codes:
493F: Pre-supply pressure sensor, signal (immediately comes back after clearing)
4560: Rail pressure plausibility delivery controlled (only appears after stall)
4570: Rail pressure plausibility delivery controlled (only appears after stall)
4610: Rail pressure plausibility pressure controlled (only appears after stall)
4600: Rail pressure plausibility pressure controlled (only appears after stall)

I'm pretty stumped, and not really sure where to go from here. I guess I'll order a fuel temp/pressure sensor and hopefully at least get rid of that damn 493F. I'd love to hear y'alls thoughts on that difference in LPFP pressure though.

Here are my latest rail pressure logs, commanded and actual. Looks like the HPFP is doing whatever the hell it wants.
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      02-16-2019, 12:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinvader View Post
It wasn't as bad as I anticipated, but not good either. Some water in the bottom, some goo on the driver side pickup screen, and quite a bit of rust from the pump arms
ANY water ANYWHERE in the fuel system is VERY bad. I recommend this stuff as a preventative in the spring and fall, and more often if you live in a damp climate or if you are on the road alot fueling at random locations.
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      02-16-2019, 12:37 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinvader View Post
On top of that, now my supply pressure gauge is consistently reading between 100-120psi.
Stock low side pressure should be around 60psi. Sorry to say, just looking at the pics, your entire fuel system is trashed. You can keep on replacing 1 or 2 parts at a time and see what happens, but that is likely not going to yield much satisfaction.
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      02-16-2019, 02:00 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadir Point View Post
ANY water ANYWHERE in the fuel system is VERY bad. I recommend this stuff as a preventative in the spring and fall, and more often if you live in a damp climate or if you are on the road alot fueling at random locations.
I think the previous owner might have gotten some bad fuel at some point. I've ran Hot Shots Diesel Extreme for a tank, and have been adding their winter antigel. I'll be using EDT when it warms up. I've been refueling from the same shell station my dad has been using for 30 years. He's never had a problem with their fuel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadir Point View Post
Stock low side pressure should be around 60psi. Sorry to say, just looking at the pics, your entire fuel system is trashed. You can keep on replacing 1 or 2 parts at a time and see what happens, but that is likely not going to yield much satisfaction.
At this point everything but the injectors, hoses, tank, and rail have been replaced. I'm going to mess with it today. Maybe put my old hpfp in and see if my low pressure gets back to 60 psi.
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      02-16-2019, 02:18 PM   #33
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Your rail pressure takes a dive off a cliff, the pressure must be going somewhere and it looks to be injected going by the amount of smoke you're putting out. Must be one or more injectors? These things are complex and I wouldn't trust a backyard test to rule them out.

I'd get them tested or swap for some known good used ones.
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      02-16-2019, 04:26 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinvader View Post
I've been refueling from the same shell station my dad has been using for 30 years. He's never had a problem with their fuel.
30 years is quite awhile for a fuel storage tank. Or maybe not - depending on how it was installed and maintained. Just a thought. Running like that until somethijg let go, I can pretty much guarantee the injectors are smoked. Again - literally anything in the fuel system with electronics or moving parts is now suspect. When the dealers see this type stuff they just write up a full-system refresh for $3-4k. It ends up being easier, quicker and cheaper in the long run, considering labor cost.

Last edited by Nadir Point; 02-16-2019 at 04:39 PM.
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      02-16-2019, 04:42 PM   #35
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Op....I had a similar problem in my E91. I along with my Indy shop we’re stumped. Finally my performance shop diagnosis was the Alternator! Turns out it was on the outs sending erratic voltage causing the car to die. Replaced it and car ran perfect again. Not sure if this applies for you but thought I would mention it.
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      02-16-2019, 10:26 PM   #36
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Update: I swapped my old hpfp back in today, and whaddayaknow? Inlet fuel pressure is back to 60psi. To make sure it wasn't a fluke, I put the new one back in, and sure enough, back up to 100psi. I can hear a difference in tone on the lpfp. It's definitely working harder with the new pump in, almost like there's a restriction in the hpfp. I'm going to source another one and see where that puts me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadir Point View Post
30 years is quite awhile for a fuel storage tank. Or maybe not - depending on how it was installed and maintained. Just a thought. Running like that until somethijg let go, I can pretty much guarantee the injectors are smoked. Again - literally anything in the fuel system with electronics or moving parts is now suspect. When the dealers see this type stuff they just write up a full-system refresh for $3-4k. It ends up being easier, quicker and cheaper in the long run, considering labor cost.
Makes sense for a dealer, but I don't like replacing parts that don't need replaced. I'll see where a new hpfp gets me, and I'll have the injectors tested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen81 View Post
Your rail pressure takes a dive off a cliff, the pressure must be going somewhere and it looks to be injected going by the amount of smoke you're putting out. Must be one or more injectors? These things are complex and I wouldn't trust a backyard test to rule them out.

I'd get them tested or swap for some known good used ones.
I think the smoke is from the turbo leaking oil into the exhaust. It's on the to-do list after this fueling issue is sorted out. I will get the injectors tested though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaPatsFan View Post
Op....I had a similar problem in my E91. I along with my Indy shop we’re stumped. Finally my performance shop diagnosis was the Alternator! Turns out it was on the outs sending erratic voltage causing the car to die. Replaced it and car ran perfect again. Not sure if this applies for you but thought I would mention it.
Interesting, I never would have considered that. We'll see where I get with the fuel system, but I'll keep that in mind.
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      02-18-2019, 10:31 AM   #37
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Quote:
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Makes sense for a dealer, but I don't like replacing parts that don't need replaced.
Nobody does. But the point is your fuel system is comprehensively compromised. You'll get it sorted sooner or later.
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