[Cobu]

Post a "good" video on youtube and challenge every possible car magazine you can think of and car show on TV to come and test drive the BMW 335i w/ f'n v29.2 and verify the "normal" or "in fact, we eliminated turbo lag altogether" performance. Also, I was thinking of sending a local TV crew a story for one of those undercover investigations – to enlighten the public about our ordeal with BMW dealerships and BMW NA in the area.

Imagine signing up for Comcast cable internet and after few months they decide to slow down their network and introduce a "dial up" like performance? Would you still be paying for it?

On a class action note: data data data - that's all that we need and that will stand up against whatever b-s BMW NA is throwing out about "normal" behavior.

[Manboy]

This is very interesting reading. It appears Edmunds got ahold of a 29.2 car. I wonder if this would be a good time for us to make a joint effort and contact Edmunds in an organized fashion?

[RBBMWE46M3]

Happy happy happy...sounds like they got a lagger...looks like Im gunna get back at emailing autoweek car and driver and autombile magazines 10 more times...EVERYONE NEEDS TO DO THIS IN ORDER TO BE EFFECTIVE..."Do it now man and no more slak'n off" (caddyshack quote)

[RBBMWE46M3]

Originally Posted by Rando

Hmmm, the first inkling of an auto magazine mentioning the lag:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*

"The throttle response from its twin-turbo 300-hp inline-6 is only happy and snappy in the upper rpm range..."

The 335i's relatively poor performance may also be due to the same problem.

I'm sure the Edmunds guys read these forums, and I thank them for this. It's a good start, but there's certainly an article to be done here. Everyone was doing great articles when the 335i came out... about how much more HP and torque it had than was claimed. And even an article on Vishnu tuning.

It's time for one more piece of investigative journalism. No doubt it will be big news and get a ton of hits!

We need to find "The Inquirer" for cars. (The Inquirer does Tech gossip.) Now that would be amusing.

Happy happy happy...sounds like they got a lagger...looks like Im gunna get back at emailing autoweek car and driver and autombile magazines 10 more times...EVERYONE NEEDS TO DO THIS IN ORDER TO BE EFFECTIVE..."Do it now man and no more slak'n off" (caddyshack quote)

[RBBMWE46M3]

Jeez..sorry about the double post

[Canadian-eh]

I know I'll get flamed for this but..

I do not have lag (03/07 build), and each and every video I have seen on youtube does nothing to convince me there is lag. I don't doubt the fact that there is lag, it's just that I don't see it undeniably there in those videos. First, the quality is generally
poor, and second, I think it needs a side-by-side screen with "pre 29.2" on the left and "post 29.2" on the right. Then the needles and time-frames can be directly compared. Otherwise, it's all out of context when trying to convince others of lag on youtube videos.

Call me blind, if you wish, but if I don't see it then plenty of others won't either.

[RBBMWE46M3]

Originally Posted by Canadian-eh

I know I'll get flamed for this but..

I do not have lag (03/07 build), and each and every video I have seen on youtube does nothing to convince me there is lag. I don't doubt the fact that there is lag, it's just that I don't see it undeniably there in those videos. First, the quality is generally
poor, and second, I think it needs a side-by-side screen with "pre 29.2" on the left and "post 29.2" on the right. Then the needles and time-frames can be directly compared. Otherwise, it's all out of context when trying to convince others of lag on youtube videos.

Call me blind, if you wish, but if I don't see it then plenty of others won't either.

Yea I'll give ya that...I didn't use a "Red camera" (120 frames/sec) (cost..13,000$) What the video did accomplish is for those of us who do have lag can compare the time that it takes to feel the pull (it is much more a seat of the pants feel than a video can accomplish) come in. Maybe you should PM Pavel. He does not have lag anymore and he can see the difference..or maybe you should come to Chicago and drive my car and then you will have some compassion for us mere mortals...

[Dackz]

"The King is dead; long live the King. That's a little hasty, but the shining example of everything that is good has certainly been subdued a bit."

Thats a quote from the pic on the right of the e90 from Edmunds....pretty much says enough.

[Cobu]

Originally Posted by Dackz

"The King is dead; long live the King. That's a little hasty, but the shining example of everything that is good has certainly been subdued a bit."

Thats a quote from the pic on the right of the e90 from Edmunds....pretty much says enough.

Uh Oh ... but ... what about "The Ultimate Driving Machine" myth? An Acura TL to destroy the myth ?!?... or did the "Ultimate (NOT) Driving Machine" destroy it itself

[iScream]

Originally Posted by Canadian-eh

I know I'll get flamed for this but..

I do not have lag (03/07 build), and each and every video I have seen on youtube does nothing to convince me there is lag. I don't doubt the fact that there is lag, it's just that I don't see it undeniably there in those videos. First, the quality is generally
poor, and second, I think it needs a side-by-side screen with "pre 29.2" on the left and "post 29.2" on the right. Then the needles and time-frames can be directly compared. Otherwise, it's all out of context when trying to convince others of lag on youtube videos.

Call me blind, if you wish, but if I don't see it then plenty of others won't either.

This is why I've been trying for 2+ months to find someone without lag to compare my car to. It is very difficult to discern it from looking at a tachometer, but it's all we have right now. To tell it is 1.6s versus 0.4s, I had to do frame-by-frame analysis of the video. (BTW, the original is higher quality -- youtube reduces the quality.) Maybe you or Pavel could tape the same test on your lag-free cars and I can do the same analysis. But really, if you want to convince someone, just let them drive both cars side-by-side.

Also, good for Edmunds. I have had Google Alerts set up on 335i since before I bought mine 2 years ago, and I am sick of seeing so many articles that fawn over the N54. It used to give me joy to receive those articles, but lately they just make me mad.

[Canadian-eh]

Originally Posted by RBBMWE46M3

Maybe you should PM Pavel. He does not have lag anymore and he can see the difference..or maybe you should come to Chicago and drive my car and then you will have some compassion for us mere mortals...

Just trying to be helpful. As I said, I don't deny the lag. I just offered a suggestion for those thinking of posting more videos and then getting auto mags etc. to go & look at them. If you have lag after not having had it, it may be obvious. But for others who never had it, it's not so obvious in those videos. I believe you. I believe Pavel. But it's not obvious from those videos, that's all I'm saying.

[Prof3ssor]

That is a great read from Edmunds. Amazing how things change from last year, huh? Our car was untouchable and now we start hearing the truth from the automobile magazines about what we have been preaching for months. You could not find 1 article 2 years or 1 year ago that said the throttle reponse down low was bad or it was only "snappy" in the high rpm range?

Why would Edmunds not question BMW's statement about making power at 1500 rpm's? I think they need a lot of consumer feedback with regard to this article. Instead of preaching 29.2 simply write in and ask why the BMW is not making power down low and point them to their(BMW) statement.

[imoksoami]

The once mighty 335i places 3rd... Way to f up a great car, BMW. Karma's a bitch.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*

[shaddai]

Originally Posted by Cobu

Post a "good" video on youtube and challenge every possible car magazine you can think of and car show on TV to come and test drive the BMW 335i w/ f'n v29.2 and verify the "normal" or "in fact, we eliminated turbo lag altogether" performance. Also, I was thinking of sending a local TV crew a story for one of those undercover investigations – to enlighten the public about our ordeal with BMW dealerships and BMW NA in the area.

Imagine signing up for Comcast cable internet and after few months they decide to slow down their network and introduce a "dial up" like performance? Would you still be paying for it?

On a class action note: data data data - that's all that we need and that will stand up against whatever b-s BMW NA is throwing out about "normal" behavior.

One of our very own has a set of pre and post 29.2 videos. He posted them somewhere (deep in another thread) and I linked to them here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...29&postcount=6

edit: direct link to the videos:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...95#post2902695

[iScream]

Originally Posted by shaddai

One of our very own has a set of pre and post 29.2 videos. He posted them somewhere (deep in another thread) and I linked to them here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...29&postcount=6

edit: direct link to the videos:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...95#post2902695

I responded with this:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=477

Not conclusive either, but it has to make even the skeptic wonder...

[imoksoami]

I am close to 1000miles on my '08 pre 29.2 Coupe. When I hit 1K miles I will dyno it, going WOT at 1000R's. This will be my benchmark dyno for when I am flashed to post 29.2. When I am flashed to post 29.2 I will then dyno again, going WOT at 1000RPM. This is the kind of comparison we need. Even a pre and post 29.2 dyno with different cars will show the differences every one is talking about. For those who believe the dyno will not show the difference as to where the tq peak is please explain why. Keep in mind I am not looking for lag proof I am looking for where the tq peaks at ie 1500rpm versus 2500rpm.

[shaddai]

Originally Posted by iScream

I responded with this:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=477

Not conclusive either, but it has to make even the skeptic wonder...

Damn... same videos.

[RBBMWE46M3]

Originally Posted by imoksoami

I am close to 1000miles on my '08 pre 29.2 Coupe. When I hit 1K miles I will dyno it, going WOT at 1000R's. This will be my benchmark dyno for when I am flashed to post 29.2. When I am flashed to post 29.2 I will then dyno again, going WOT at 1000RPM. This is the kind of comparison we need. Even a pre and post 29.2 dyno with different cars will show the differences every one is talking about. For those who believe the dyno will not show the difference as to where the tq peak is please explain why. Keep in mind I am not looking for lag proof I am looking for where the tq peaks at ie 1500rpm versus 2500rpm.

Just curious...you have an 08 with pre 29.2 and you have less than 1k miles on it??? Are you just driving your car to church on Sundays?

[iScream]

Originally Posted by imoksoami

I am close to 1000miles on my '08 pre 29.2 Coupe. When I hit 1K miles I will dyno it, going WOT at 1000R's. This will be my benchmark dyno for when I am flashed to post 29.2. When I am flashed to post 29.2 I will then dyno again, going WOT at 1000RPM. This is the kind of comparison we need. Even a pre and post 29.2 dyno with different cars will show the differences every one is talking about. For those who believe the dyno will not show the difference as to where the tq peak is please explain why. Keep in mind I am not looking for lag proof I am looking for where the tq peaks at ie 1500rpm versus 2500rpm.

I am not a dyno expert, and I have never done one. Some people were saying that dynos are done not by flooring the pedal, but by slowly accelerating through the RPM range, so that the machine can get enough samples to draw a smooth curve.

If you can go full WOT at 1000 RPM in a dyno, then that should show a relative loss of torque between 1400 RPM and some higher number. Some here believe that number will be 3k+ (3300, as I had discerned) and others (myself included) believe The Lag to subside at 3300 OR ~1.6s, whichever comes first.

Also, make sure you've had the car warm for 15-20 minutes before both dynos. When can we expect some jpg's? I am excited for this!

[imoksoami]

Originally Posted by King335i

I've got an appointment on the 12th at Don Rasmussen BMW about all this.

I'm going to leave my car with the Dinan guy, who is going to run a day-long marathon of diagnostics on the car to see what the hell the issue is.

In my particular case I think its the HPFP, but I'm also going to ask him about updates from BMW as well.

Will let you guys know if something comes up worth noting.

Nothing from King335i since this post on 9/10. Weird, maybe a free Dinan package for his silence

[shaddai]

More history digging on Edmunds...

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...leId=117669#10

Take a look at the dyno graphs of their BMW supplied test car v.s. a customer car. Note their car comes out 19 horsepower more and makes more boost later in the RPMs than the customer supplied car. BMW was cooking the review books back then and now they've put their customers on ice. Something was always amiss.

[imoksoami]

Originally Posted by iScream

I am not a dyno expert, and I have never done one. Some people were saying that dynos are done not by flooring the pedal, but by slowly accelerating through the RPM range, so that the machine can get enough samples to draw a smooth curve.

If you can go full WOT at 1000 RPM in a dyno, then that should show a relative loss of torque between 1400 RPM and some higher number. Some here believe that number will be 3k+ (3300, as I had discerned) and others (myself included) believe The Lag to subside at 3300 OR ~1.6s, whichever comes first.

Also, make sure you've had the car warm for 15-20 minutes before both dynos. When can we expect some jpg's? I am excited for this!

I have dynoed probably 50 times on different dynos and different cars of mine and you do go WOT.