[Christian_H]

Hi.

Would need some help.
When driving there is almost no heat, only about 19 degrees Celsius at the vents, but when i use the aux heater there is about 48 degrees.

Im pretty sure this is caused by the air mix flap being "stuck" in full fresh air position, checked with icarsoft and its on 0% (and when i checked the rear air mix flap, 0% was the "cold" position).
And it wont move when i adjust the thumbwheel.

So i checked the resistans and it was between 4.2k ohm and 10k ohm, and i also checked the voltage in the connector, two of the pins was +5v and one was ground.

So do this values look ok, i though it would be +12v at the pins?
Might the impedance be to high ?

Any input is much appreciated!!
Want to rule out as much as possible before i check the flap motor =)

Best regards
Christian

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Christian_H

...When driving there is almost no heat, only about 19 degrees Celsius at the vents, but when i use the aux heater there is about 48 degrees. Im pretty sure this is caused by the air mix flap being "stuck" in full fresh air position, checked with icarsoft and its on 0% (and when i checked the rear air mix flap, 0% was the "cold" position)...Best regards
Christian

I'm NOT familiar with icarsoft, but INPA has very good IHKA (Climate Control Module) diagnostics, that show position of each of the 8 flaps, and allows control of each, along with temperature sensor readouts in real time.

Here is the IHKA 89 TIS circuit diagram for the 2007 335i E92 built between 3/1/2007 & 8/31/2007:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...bution/xBm37Oo

That circuit diagram shows the 8 flap motors on the far right of the large diagram, and the water valve (Y4a) at the lower left.

From your description, I would expect that either the water valve is closed, NOT allowing warm coolant to flow through the heater core, or BOTH of the blend flaps or "Mixed Air Flaps" (M153) & (M154) in the diagram are in the full-cold position. Unless you have the compressor valve turned off, the air is going to be cooled (and de-humidified) by the evaporator coil, regardless of whether the Recirculation Flap is open or closed. Heat is obtained by the Mixed Air Flap on either side directing the incoming/ cooled air through the Heater Core.

If the heat worked last fall/winter, but has NOT worked since using A/C all summer, it is likely that one or both blend flaps is stuck in the full-cold position. I would suggest the following tests, with engine warmed to normal operating temp and thermostat on each side set to highest temp.

I would try to "exercise" the flaps by MANUALLY selecting each available setting and allowing the system ~ one full minute to react to the change. Begin with Defrost, and see if air is directed to the windscreen, but ALSO if it is warm. Same for Footwell vents, noting any difference in air temp in either footwell.

Since INPA has readouts for ALL 8 flaps (including the "Mixed Air Flaps") I would expect icarsoft should as well. On full heat, those should be 80% or higher in their readings (BOTH Left & Right).

Please let us know what you find,
George

[lowrydr310]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

From your description, I would expect that either the water valve is closed, NOT allowing warm coolant to flow through the heater core, or BOTH of the blend flaps or "Mixed Air Flaps" (M153) & (M154) in the diagram are in the full-cold position.

Where is the water valve physically located, and how can I tell it's working properly?

I have similar symptoms with little heat and hadn't bothered to diagnose it yet. I also don't hear any change in sound when I turn my temperature from hot to cold on both sides, so I'm going to look at the mixer flap - I didn't realize INPA had HVAC diagnostics so I'll be checking that first.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by lowrydr310

Where is the water valve physically located, and how can I tell it's working properly? ...I didn't realize INPA had HVAC diagnostics so I'll be checking that first.

Water Valve Location:
IHKA Functions, prior to 2007:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...bution/hwh7J2T

Click on "Y4a" Water Valve
Select "Installation Location":
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...lim/1VnbhPr7F8

INPA IHKA Diagnostics:

1) In Body, select A/C Control Panel (IHKA)
2) In IHKA, select F5(Status) | F4 (Flap Positions)

You should see a screen that looks like the attachment.
BTW, Mixed Air Flaps (Blend Flaps) are on last line:
Mixed Air Left = Mischluft Links
Mixed Air Right = Mischluft Recht

George

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by lowrydr310

Where is the water valve physically located, and how can I tell it's working properly?

I need to reinstall INPA, as the version I installed a year ago "stops" frequently and I usually can't load the second page of long Analog Status screens (note the green "down" arrow in the lower right of previous screen print attachment), so I'm NOT sure if INPA gives any information on heater core temp or Water Valve position. If it DOES, I have NOT found it yet.

If it doesn't you can still eliminate the other variables and determine that for whatever reason, the Water Valve is NOT functioning properly. Just determine that the Mixed Air Flaps (Left & Right) are >80% open directing air to the heater core, and also read coolant temp in any number of ways. If footwell temp (or Defrost vent temp @ windscreen) is NOT noticeably warm, then the heater core is NOT getting coolant flow. As stated, I am NOT aware of any INPA diagnostics that would identify improper water valve operation, or any other way other than old-school testing to determine obstruction of coolant flow through heater core.

ANYONE know:
(1) Is the Water Valve normally open or normally closed?
(2) When current is applied via Yellow/Brown wire (Pin#1, Connector X85) should the valve open or close?
(3) I would assume, since there are ONLY 2 pins, Ground & 12V+, that there is NO feedback to either the JBE to which the valve is connected, or to the IHKA so that position can be read by a control module?

Here is the "Connector View" of X85 attached to the Water Valve:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-lim/HRXIZgQh

The Refrigeration/Cooling part of the system is easier to diagnose. INPA shows you High Side Refrigerant Pressure per signal from the Pressure Sensor on the High side line on the right of the engine; Refrigerant Pressure = Druck Kaltemittel. There is also a temperature sensor on the Evaporator Coil which reads Evaporator Temperature (Temperatur Verdampfer). The screen for that in Air Conditioning Control Panel (IHKA 87) is: F5(Status) | F1 (Reading Analog Ports/ Auslesen Analogports).

George

[Christian_H]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

I'm NOT familiar with icarsoft, but INPA has very good IHKA (Climate Control Module) diagnostics, that show position of each of the 8 flaps, and allows control of each, along with temperature sensor readouts in real time.

Here is the IHKA 89 TIS circuit diagram for the 2007 335i E92 built between 3/1/2007 & 8/31/2007:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...bution/xBm37Oo

That circuit diagram shows the 8 flap motors on the far right of the large diagram, and the water valve (Y4a) at the lower left.

From your description, I would expect that either the water valve is closed, NOT allowing warm coolant to flow through the heater core, or BOTH of the blend flaps or "Mixed Air Flaps" (M153) & (M154) in the diagram are in the full-cold position. Unless you have the compressor valve turned off, the air is going to be cooled (and de-humidified) by the evaporator coil, regardless of whether the Recirculation Flap is open or closed. Heat is obtained by the Mixed Air Flap on either side directing the incoming/ cooled air through the Heater Core.

If the heat worked last fall/winter, but has NOT worked since using A/C all summer, it is likely that one or both blend flaps is stuck in the full-cold position. I would suggest the following tests, with engine warmed to normal operating temp and thermostat on each side set to highest temp.

I would try to "exercise" the flaps by MANUALLY selecting each available setting and allowing the system ~ one full minute to react to the change. Begin with Defrost, and see if air is directed to the windscreen, but ALSO if it is warm. Same for Footwell vents, noting any difference in air temp in either footwell.

Since INPA has readouts for ALL 8 flaps (including the "Mixed Air Flaps") I would expect icarsoft should as well. On full heat, those should be 80% or higher in their readings (BOTH Left & Right).

Please let us know what you find,
George

Hi George and thank you for your input.
I have checked all the flaps, and all of them are moving when respective knob or button is used, except for one flap, the front stratification flap.
But when i turn the aux heter on and its over 15 degrees outside, it will only turn on the ventilation when its over 15 degrees, the front stratification flaps moves to 100%, so the motor seems to work.
So i bought another control unit (the one with the thumbwheel, hazard light button and so on), but no still cant get the front stratification flap to move.
So since i could only get +5v to the thumbwheel i suspect thats whats causing the flap to not move.

And about the watervalve, we checked that earlier, and is was normally open to the inlet from the engine. And since i get heat when i use the aux heater (when the car is turned of) im assuming the watervalve is working and switching to the inlet from the aux heater when needed.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Christian_H

...I have checked all the flaps, and all of them are moving when respective knob or button is used, except for one flap, the front stratification flap. But when i turn the aux heter on and its over 15 degrees outside, it will only turn on the ventilation when its over 15 degrees, the front stratification flaps moves to 100%, so the motor seems to work.
So i bought another control unit (the one with the thumbwheel, hazard light button and so on), but no still cant get the front stratification flap to move.
So since i could only get +5v to the thumbwheel i suspect thats whats causing the flap to not move...

Hi Christian,

I'm wondering WHAT happens when you manually select Defrost? Does hot air come from the Defrost/ Windscreen vents? What does the Defrost Flap position read? What does the Stratification Flap position read?

I'm NOT familiar with the Stratification Flap Motor. I assume that is M4729, "Front Mixing Flap Motor" as shown on this TIS circuit diagram for the 8 flap motors, linked earlier:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...bution/xBm37Oo

Here is the "Installation Location" for that motor:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e92-335i-cou/S0NokqN

If the stepper motor for the stratification flap can move the flap through its ENTIRE range of travel from "0" position to "100" position, then it would seem that the flap is mechanically OK and the stepper motor is electrically OK, and the problem is in the electronic control system, quite possibly the LIN bus or connectors in the bus path. Here is a TIS article on the Stratification System:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ation/GSNpHrTj

AFAIK, the Stratification Flap should ONLY give "fine tuning" of upper vent vs. footwell vent temperatures to suit personal taste as far as "face" temperature vs. foot or body temperature, so if you have gross "heating failure" or lukewarm footwell vent temps when full heat/ 28C is selected, then I would be interested in knowing if the footwell vents are opening properly. However, due to the LIN bus wiring scheme, it is possible that erratic operation of the Stratification Flap Motor is a significant clue (see below).

As I read that Stratification Article, and examine the wiring diagram, it suggests that the LIN bus communication with the flap motors is in Series, and a LIN bus communication fault affecting the Stratification Flap Motor function would ALSO affect the Left Mixing Flap Motor AND the Footwell Flap Motor, so I would devise a test of function and readout of position of each of the flaps/motors up to and then AFTER the Stratification Flap Motor to test for proper LIN bus control.

AFAIK, the control circuit for things like the the "Mixing Air Control" (R1, or Stratification Control Potentiometer) is usually low voltage -- 5V as opposed to full 12V. The Motor Voltage Supply at any Pin#4 of a stepper motor connector however I would expect to be 12V.

As I read the circuit diagram linked above, there are 3 pins active in the 4-pin connector X692 which attaches to the "Stratification Control Potentiometer" or thumbwheel device in center of dash. BTW, that is NOT technically a "control unit" -- it is simply a variable resistor or "potentiometer" that varies the 5V control signal to have the IHKA module move the Stratification Flap. NO electronics, just a variable resistor.

You can confirm that with a simple DMM (Digital Multimeter) testing voltage with ignition and IHKA control panel ON. There should be 5V at Pin #1, Blue/White wire. There should be NO voltage in reference to ground at Pin #3, Yellow/Brown wire (switched ground), and there should be varied voltage between 0 & 5V at Pin #2, Blue/Green wire, depending upon the position of the thumbwheel.

If the flap motor works, the flap moves through its entire range of travel, and the thumbwheel test shows 5V control voltage in, and varied (0 - 5) voltage out, then the LIN bus connections (loose/ corroded) are the likely suspect.

BTW, I forgot to ask you to confirm that your vehicle has a build date between 3/1/2007 & 8/31/2007. If it does NOT then the circuit diagrams I have provided are NOT correct for your vehicle (vehicles built BEFORE 3/1/2007 were wired significantly different).

Please let us know what you find,
George

[Christian_H]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Hi Christian,

I'm wondering WHAT happens when you manually select Defrost? Does hot air come from the Defrost/ Windscreen vents? What does the Defrost Flap position read? What does the Stratification Flap position read?

I'm NOT familiar with the Stratification Flap Motor. I assume that is M4729, "Front Mixing Flap Motor" as shown on this TIS circuit diagram for the 8 flap motors, linked earlier:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...bution/xBm37Oo

Here is the "Installation Location" for that motor:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e92-335i-cou/S0NokqN

If the stepper motor for the stratification flap can move the flap through its ENTIRE range of travel from "0" position to "100" position, then it would seem that the flap is mechanically OK and the stepper motor is electrically OK, and the problem is in the electronic control system, quite possibly the LIN bus or connectors in the bus path. Here is a TIS article on the Stratification System:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ation/GSNpHrTj

AFAIK, the Stratification Flap should ONLY give "fine tuning" of upper vent vs. footwell vent temperatures to suit personal taste as far as "face" temperature vs. foot or body temperature, so if you have gross "heating failure" or lukewarm footwell vent temps when full heat/ 28C is selected, then I would be interested in knowing if the footwell vents are opening properly. However, due to the LIN bus wiring scheme, it is possible that erratic operation of the Stratification Flap Motor is a significant clue (see below).

As I read that Stratification Article, and examine the wiring diagram, it suggests that the LIN bus communication with the flap motors is in Series, and a LIN bus communication fault affecting the Stratification Flap Motor function would ALSO affect the Left Mixing Flap Motor AND the Footwell Flap Motor, so I would devise a test of function and readout of position of each of the flaps/motors up to and then AFTER the Stratification Flap Motor to test for proper LIN bus control.

AFAIK, the control circuit for things like the the "Mixing Air Control" (R1, or Stratification Control Potentiometer) is usually low voltage -- 5V as opposed to full 12V. The Motor Voltage Supply at any Pin#4 of a stepper motor connector however I would expect to be 12V.

As I read the circuit diagram linked above, there are 3 pins active in the 4-pin connector X692 which attaches to the "Stratification Control Potentiometer" or thumbwheel device in center of dash. BTW, that is NOT technically a "control unit" -- it is simply a variable resistor or "potentiometer" that varies the 5V control signal to have the IHKA module move the Stratification Flap. NO electronics, just a variable resistor.

You can confirm that with a simple DMM (Digital Multimeter) testing voltage with ignition and IHKA control panel ON. There should be 5V at Pin #1, Blue/White wire. There should be NO voltage in reference to ground at Pin #3, Yellow/Brown wire (switched ground), and there should be varied voltage between 0 & 5V at Pin #2, Blue/Green wire, depending upon the position of the thumbwheel.

If the flap motor works, the flap moves through its entire range of travel, and the thumbwheel test shows 5V control voltage in, and varied (0 - 5) voltage out, then the LIN bus connections (loose/ corroded) are the likely suspect.

BTW, I forgot to ask you to confirm that your vehicle has a build date between 3/1/2007 & 8/31/2007. If it does NOT then the circuit diagrams I have provided are NOT correct for your vehicle (vehicles built BEFORE 3/1/2007 were wired significantly different).

Please let us know what you find,
George

Hi George

When i press the defrost button (Nr 2 in pic) i get air from the top vent and it reads 100%, and as you see the rear stratification flap is open 100% but not the front.

And when i chose only the top ventilation button (Nr 3 in pic) its the same, except for the rear that is at 70%.

I did check al the flap motors, and all of them (except M4729) is moving up to 100%
The only time M4729 moves (Nr 1 in pic) is when i turn on the independent/auxiliary heater and the ignition is off and its over 15 degrees Celsius outside.

I checked the voltage at X692 and pin 1 was 5v and pin 2 was between 0.8v to 4.2 v depending on the position of the thumbwheel, and pin 3 was 0v.
I also checked the resistans between pin 1 at X692 & pin 9 at X608 and it was the same as the resistans between pin 1 & 2 at X692, so the cable between R1 and IHKA seems to be ok.

So since the IHKA can move M4729 when it gets the signal from the independent/auxiliary heater (and it only ventilates the air), and can´t move it when it gets the "signal" from R1, and the LIN-Bus seems ok since Mixed air flap motor left (M153) and Footwell flap motor (M31) are moving.

Do you think it could be something wrong withe the square wave signal in the Lin-Bus?
And would it be right to assume that the IHKA is the master for that signal?

And yes, it an 05/2007
I have also gotten INPA, just waiting on the laptop.

Best regards
Christian

[Christian_H]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

I need to reinstall INPA, as the version I installed a year ago "stops" frequently and I usually can't load the second page of long Analog Status screens (note the green "down" arrow in the lower right of previous screen print attachment), so I'm NOT sure if INPA gives any information on heater core temp or Water Valve position. If it DOES, I have NOT found it yet.

If it doesn't you can still eliminate the other variables and determine that for whatever reason, the Water Valve is NOT functioning properly. Just determine that the Mixed Air Flaps (Left & Right) are >80% open directing air to the heater core, and also read coolant temp in any number of ways. If footwell temp (or Defrost vent temp @ windscreen) is NOT noticeably warm, then the heater core is NOT getting coolant flow. As stated, I am NOT aware of any INPA diagnostics that would identify improper water valve operation, or any other way other than old-school testing to determine obstruction of coolant flow through heater core.

ANYONE know:
(1) Is the Water Valve normally open or normally closed?
(2) When current is applied via Yellow/Brown wire (Pin#1, Connector X85) should the valve open or close?
(3) I would assume, since there are ONLY 2 pins, Ground & 12V+, that there is NO feedback to either the JBE to which the valve is connected, or to the IHKA so that position can be read by a control module?

Here is the "Connector View" of X85 attached to the Water Valve:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-lim/HRXIZgQh

The Refrigeration/Cooling part of the system is easier to diagnose. INPA shows you High Side Refrigerant Pressure per signal from the Pressure Sensor on the High side line on the right of the engine; Refrigerant Pressure = Druck Kaltemittel. There is also a temperature sensor on the Evaporator Coil which reads Evaporator Temperature (Temperatur Verdampfer). The screen for that in Air Conditioning Control Panel (IHKA 87) is: F5(Status) | F1 (Reading Analog Ports/ Auslesen Analogports).

George

I made a mistake when checked the water valve before, i never checked if there was voltage to it. I checked today and no voltage.
I also checked the hose going to the valve, and it was only 35 degrees Celsius when the bigger hose from the engine (the hose that the hose to the valve are connected to) was 85 degrees.

Do you know what determent the position of the valve?
I could only find that it´s connected to the fuse box at pin 33.

To me it seems that the normal position of the valve is open from the auxiliary heater, and when the valve gets power it switch to open from the engine. That would explain why i get heat from auxiliary heater and not when i run the engine

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Christian_H

I made a mistake when checked the water valve before, i never checked if there was voltage to it. I checked today and no voltage. I also checked the hose going to the valve, and it was only 35 degrees Celsius when the bigger hose from the engine (the hose that the hose to the valve are connected to) was 85 degrees.

Well, the Water Valve is certainly a more likely suspect for VERY little heat, as the Stratification Flap is just "fine-tuning" of difference in air delivery temp between footwells & face vents.

So, if we have 35C at the Valve Hose with Engine Coolant Temp ~ 85C, then it appears the Water Valve is NOT opening, and now the question is WHY is it closed? It appears that it requires voltage at pin #1 of Connector X85 (Water Valve (Y) Connector to make the valve open per this circuit diagram linked earlier, see Water Valve in lower left corner of large schematic:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...bution/xBm37Oo

To make sure we understand the schematic correctly, look carefully at the large rectangular box on the Left-Upper portion of the schematic which is labeled "A4010" and that is the Junction Box (JB) or Fuse Panel. There is a smaller rectangular box (outlined by dotted lines ------), inside the larger box, which is labeled "A4010a" & if you place your cursor/pointer over that ID#, you will see that component has the designation "Junction Box, Electronics" (JBE) and is the Electronic Module that plugs into the lower portion of the JB or fuse panel.

So the Yellow Brown wire coming from the Water Valve attaches to Pin #33 of Connector X14270 of the JBE - A4010a which is an Electronic Module that switches power to the Water Valve to open or close it, acting similarly to a relay.

When something electrical quits working, normally the FIRST thing one should check is the FUSE that powers the component. So WHAT fuse powers the Water Valve? Answer appears to be that there is NO "Dedicated Fuse" that is directly assigned to JUST the Water Valve, and NO fuse in the fuse chart that lists the Water Valve as one of the components it supplies power to.

As with many "Electronic Modules," such as the DME, CAS, FRM, etc. there are multiple fuses that supply power to the JBE (Junction Box Electronic Module). Here is the Circuit diagram for the JBE Power Supply for the 5/2007 335i:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ronics/kU9YBeM

Note that there are Five (5) fuses which supply power to the JBE: F56, F57, F62, F63 & F64, so start by checking each one of those. As I read the circuit diagram, it is suggested that F56 and F57 power the Central Locking System, so if that works, those two fuses are OK. Likewise, F62 & F64 power the Rear Window motors, so if they work, that leaves F63 as the place to start.

In summary, I would do the following checks/tests:
1) Check F63 and the other 4 fuses mentioned above supplying power to JBE;
2) Check for 12V+ at pin #33 of Connector X14270 at the JBE;
3) Check for continuity of Yellow/Brown wire from Pin #33 to Water Valve;
4) Test Water Valve for proper electrical operation when 12V+ is applied at Pin #33 (with connector X14270 DISCONNECTED to prevent damage to JBE);
5) ALWAYS check the ground: pin #2, Brown wire, of Water Valve Connector.

If you get INPA set up, check out JBBF (JBE) | F6 (Activations/Steuern) | F4 (Auxiliary WaterPump & Water Valve) | F3 (Switch ON Water Valve for 30 seconds) & F4 (Switch OFF Water Valve). Also check for Fault Code & Freeze Frame/Detail Data in JBE (JBBF in INPA).

Please let us know what you find,
George

[Christian_H]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Well, the Water Valve is certainly a more likely suspect for VERY little heat, as the Stratification Flap is just "fine-tuning" of difference in air delivery temp between footwells & face vents.

So, if we have 35C at the Valve Hose with Engine Coolant Temp ~ 85C, then it appears the Water Valve is NOT opening, and now the question is WHY is it closed? It appears that it requires voltage at pin #1 of Connector X85 (Water Valve (Y) Connector to make the valve open per this circuit diagram linked earlier, see Water Valve in lower left corner of large schematic:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...bution/xBm37Oo

To make sure we understand the schematic correctly, look carefully at the large rectangular box on the Left-Upper portion of the schematic which is labeled "A4010" and that is the Junction Box (JB) or Fuse Panel. There is a smaller rectangular box (outlined by dotted lines ------), inside the larger box, which is labeled "A4010a" & if you place your cursor/pointer over that ID#, you will see that component has the designation "Junction Box, Electronics" (JBE) and is the Electronic Module that plugs into the lower portion of the JB or fuse panel.

So the Yellow Brown wire coming from the Water Valve attaches to Pin #33 of Connector X14270 of the JBE - A4010a which is an Electronic Module that switches power to the Water Valve to open or close it, acting similarly to a relay.

When something electrical quits working, normally the FIRST thing one should check is the FUSE that powers the component. So WHAT fuse powers the Water Valve? Answer appears to be that there is NO "Dedicated Fuse" that is directly assigned to JUST the Water Valve, and NO fuse in the fuse chart that lists the Water Valve as one of the components it supplies power to.

As with many "Electronic Modules," such as the DME, CAS, FRM, etc. there are multiple fuses that supply power to the JBE (Junction Box Electronic Module). Here is the Circuit diagram for the JBE Power Supply for the 5/2007 335i:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ronics/kU9YBeM

Note that there are Five (5) fuses which supply power to the JBE: F56, F57, F62, F63 & F64, so start by checking each one of those. As I read the circuit diagram, it is suggested that F56 and F57 power the Central Locking System, so if that works, those two fuses are OK. Likewise, F62 & F64 power the Rear Window motors, so if they work, that leaves F63 as the place to start.

In summary, I would do the following checks/tests:
1) Check F63 and the other 4 fuses mentioned above supplying power to JBE;
2) Check for 12V+ at pin #33 of Connector X14270 at the JBE;
3) Check for continuity of Yellow/Brown wire from Pin #33 to Water Valve;
4) Test Water Valve for proper electrical operation when 12V+ is applied at Pin #33 (with connector X14270 DISCONNECTED to prevent damage to JBE);
5) ALWAYS check the ground: pin #2, Brown wire, of Water Valve Connector.

If you get INPA set up, check out JBBF (JBE) | F6 (Activations/Steuern) | F4 (Auxiliary WaterPump & Water Valve) | F3 (Switch ON Water Valve for 30 seconds) & F4 (Switch OFF Water Valve). Also check for Fault Code & Freeze Frame/Detail Data in JBE (JBBF in INPA).

Please let us know what you find,
George

We have now checked the fuses and all way ok, we also checked the yellow/brown wire and it was ok too. Also checked the ground at pin 2 at it was ok.

We didn't checked the voltage at pin 33 (Forgot and now my brother has left) but since the cable was ok i think that it the junction box (a4010a) thats it faulty, or do you think we need to measure at pin 33 just in case ?


And when i accessed the jbbf in INPA, the only thing i could masticate was the mirror heating and int. windows. So i couldnt activate the valve from there.

[Mantraxalos]

Hello Christian,
This is an extremely old thread, but I have the same issue on my 06 325i 164k miles. I've bled the heater core several times as others have had problems with clogging. Water appears to flow freely. I will try bleeding it one last time tomorrow for a lot longer period. When I turned the front stratification wheel completely to the left, ISTA/D showed the value at 200%. It is supposed to only control from 0-100%. Twisting the wheel all the way to the right gets as low as 46%. Either way I still get cool air on all of the vents on the passenger side.

Originally Posted by Christian_H

We have now checked the fuses and all way ok, we also checked the yellow/brown wire and it was ok too. Also checked the ground at pin 2 at it was ok.

We didn't checked the voltage at pin 33 (Forgot and now my brother has left) but since the cable was ok i think that it the junction box (a4010a) thats it faulty, or do you think we need to measure at pin 33 just in case ?


And when i accessed the jbbf in INPA, the only thing i could masticate was the mirror heating and int. windows. So i couldnt activate the valve from there.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Mantraxalos

...I have the same issue on my 06 325i 164k miles. [The "issue" would be the cause of the "symptoms". In Christian's case, the "issue" was never determined. WHAT are YOUR vehicle's SYMPTOMS?] I've bled the heater core several times as others have had problems with clogging. Water appears to flow freely. I will try bleeding it one last time tomorrow for a lot longer period. When I turned the front stratification wheel completely to the left, ISTA/D showed the value at 200%. It is supposed to only control from 0-100%. Twisting the wheel all the way to the right gets as low as 46%. Either way I still get cool air on all of the vents on the passenger side. [That implies that you get WARM air from the vents on the Driver Side???]

Rather than searching for threads that SEEM to describe symptoms similar to those YOUR vehicle is exhibiting, I would suggest simply describing in detail WHAT YOUR VEHICLE'S SYMPTOMS ARE (in a NEW thread).

QUESTIONS:
1) With the engine fully-warm, and BOTH Climate Control thermostats set to max temp, do you get warm air from ANY vent on EITHER side?
2) When you select Defrost, do you get warm air on either side at the windscreen?
3) Does your 2006 325i have a "Water Valve" in the Heater Supply Line at the base of the Left Strut Tower?
4) Have you checked/topped-up your coolant level in the reservoir?

If you will simply do those tests/inspections and answer those questions, someone can help suggest next steps. Climate Control Systems vary by model and Market Country, and there are EIGHT Flap Motors in YOUR climate control system, with separate flaps for Driver & Passenger sides that determine how much, if ANY, of the cool air from the Evaporator Coil is directed through the Heater Core on either side. So if (when you want heat) ONE side is warm but the other is cold, the first suspect is the "Mixed Air Flap Motor" or more likely its wiring, on the COLD side.

IF you have ISTA(D) or INPA, you can connect to the IHKA Module and SEE the position, as Live Data, of EACH of the 8 flaps at any given moment, and watch their position change as you change Climate Control Panel Settings. The first test if ONLY ONE side is warm, is to select the proper INPA/ISTA screen to monitor "Flap Positions" and then change BOTH thermostats from full COLD to full HOT, wait 30 to 60 seconds as you monitor Right & Left Mixed Air Flap positions (0 is NO air through heater and 100 is ALL air through heater).

After 60 seconds for flaps & system to adjust to full HOT position, now dial BOTH thermostats to full COLD, and watch the Right & Left Mixed Air Flap Positions.

Just let us know what you find, and don't start disassembling ANYTHING until you have checked back.

George

[jrdaj88]

George, I was wondering if you could help me...


my son has an 08 e92 335. it has heat, but the front vents are not blowing only the rear. the fan speed will change with the buttons but if I try and select different zones nothing happens.

thanks in advance
DaleJr

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by jrdaj88

... 08 e92 335. it has heat, but the front vents are not blowing only the rear. the fan speed will change with the buttons but if I try and select different zones nothing happens...

Hi Dale,

My interpretation of your statement is as follows, and I request that you correct or clarify anything stated below that is NOT correct:

1) "it has heat": I presume you mean warm or hot air is coming from SOME Air Outlet in the system? If so which ONE(s)?

2) "the front vents are NOT blowing": I presume NO Vent has ANY air delivery of ANY Temperature at ANY setting of the Climate Control Panel, including when you press the "Defrost" button on the top-right of the panel? There is NO air from the Windscreen Vents? There is NO air from ANY of the facia vents, including the side vents at the front windows?

3) "only the rear" [is blowing?]: What Rear Vent are your referring to? Does the E92 Coupe Center Console have a vent at the rear which blows toward the rear seats, and/or that blows air into the rear footwells? Is THAT vent producing a normal amount of air?

4) "the fan speed will change": If you use the Manual Blower Speed Up/Down Button to select highest Blower speed, and NO air comes from ANY of the Front vents: (a) is the blower motor "whine" at a very high pitch as if it would "lower" in pitch if either air could ENTER the blower, or EXIT the blower discharge? (b) Is there ANY change in blower sound when you select different Air Outlet sources with the three buttons on the left of the A/C Panel? (c) is there ANY air escaping under or behind the dash as might occur if a duct was dislodged?

5) "if I try and select different zones nothing happens": Does that include changing the Blower INTAKE from Outside (Fresh Air) to Inside (Re-circulate)? Is there ANY change of sound between one Air Outlet Position and another WHEN the Blower speed is set on MAX? Can you hear the flaps "clunk" or the Flap Stepper Motors "whir" when you repeat those same changes of Air Outlet Settings (pressing panel buttons) with Blower Speed set to LOWEST, so you can hear the flaps & stepper motors?

My initial impression is that: (1) the Blower Intake is blocked, (2) an air duct is dislodged, (3) the Blower Outlet is blocked, or (4) that ALL air flaps to front vents are in closed position.

The tests suggested above or other physical examination of the blower intake, outlet & ducts should help isolate the issue. Testing various flap positions & movement audibly by operating the Panel control buttons will also add to the diagnosis.

INPA or ISTA is the most elegant way to diagnose FLAP POSITIONS, as INPA (and probably ISTA) will show actual flap position or change of position as the control buttons are pushed.

George

[jrdaj88]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Hi Dale,

My interpretation of your statement is as follows, and I request that you correct or clarify anything stated below that is NOT correct:

1) "it has heat": I presume you mean warm or hot air is coming from SOME Air Outlet in the system? If so which ONE(s)?

2) "the front vents are NOT blowing": I presume NO Vent has ANY air delivery of ANY Temperature at ANY setting of the Climate Control Panel, including when you press the "Defrost" button on the top-right of the panel? There is NO air from the Windscreen Vents? There is NO air from ANY of the facia vents, including the side vents at the front windows?

3) "only the rear" [is blowing?]: What Rear Vent are your referring to? Does the E92 Coupe Center Console have a vent at the rear which blows toward the rear seats, and/or that blows air into the rear footwells? Is THAT vent producing a normal amount of air?

4) "the fan speed will change": If you use the Manual Blower Speed Up/Down Button to select highest Blower speed, and NO air comes from ANY of the Front vents: (a) is the blower motor "whine" at a very high pitch as if it would "lower" in pitch if either air could ENTER the blower, or EXIT the blower discharge? (b) Is there ANY change in blower sound when you select different Air Outlet sources with the three buttons on the left of the A/C Panel? (c) is there ANY air escaping under or behind the dash as might occur if a duct was dislodged?

5) "if I try and select different zones nothing happens": Does that include changing the Blower INTAKE from Outside (Fresh Air) to Inside (Re-circulate)? Is there ANY change of sound between one Air Outlet Position and another WHEN the Blower speed is set on MAX? Can you hear the flaps "clunk" or the Flap Stepper Motors "whir" when you repeat those same changes of Air Outlet Settings (pressing panel buttons) with Blower Speed set to LOWEST, so you can hear the flaps & stepper motors?

My initial impression is that: (1) the Blower Intake is blocked, (2) an air duct is dislodged, (3) the Blower Outlet is blocked, or (4) that ALL air flaps to front vents are in closed position.

The tests suggested above or other physical examination of the blower intake, outlet & ducts should help isolate the issue. Testing various flap positions & movement audibly by operating the Panel control buttons will also add to the diagnosis.

INPA or ISTA is the most elegant way to diagnose FLAP POSITIONS, as INPA (and probably ISTA) will show actual flap position or change of position as the control buttons are pushed.

George

Hi George, thank you for your detailed reply.

To clarify:

1) “It Has Heat” I meant, the blower is running and responding to fan speed changes as well blowing; hot, warm, or cold (based on the selected temperature)

2) “The front vents are not blowing” I will try and combined questions
2,3, and 5 here

You are correct, the front vents including the defroster, fascia, side, and the footwell vents have no air output at any temp or setting. The e92 does have center console vents as well as vents under the seats (all are operating normally and producing a “great” amount of air). When I started changing zones I meant when I change between; the floor, defrost, or the face level vents (nothing happens). When I change from fresh air to recirculate the “air sounds different” but that about it. I do not hear the flaps move at all or “clunk” at all. (I actually laughed out loud because I hadn’t driven the car in so long and when I tried to explain the 2 sounds to my 16-year-old, and since my x5 or 650 doesn’t make the sounds so I could not duplicate the sound for him, he just blankly stared at me as if I was nuts lol)

4) Your follow-ups questions for this one is head-on… (a) it does sound like the pitch would lower if the air would blow it gets higher if I close the rear vents as if no air is escaping or very little air. (b) The sounds do change. (c) I’m not sure (really sorry I can’t provide more info)

I agree with your #4 initial impression but it could also be #3. At the risk of sounding stupid (lol) I don’t really understand what you mean when you say “dislodged” and but what I mainly mean where.

I have INPA but I'm not the best at using (also the version I have is in German)

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by jrdaj88

...I don’t really understand what you mean when you say “dislodged” I have INPA but I'm not the best at using (also the version I have is in German)

Hi Dale,

By "dislodged" I just mean an air delivery duct being "loose" or Open so that air under pressure from the blower is being dumped into the dash or front footwell area GENERALLY, without coming from the Delivery Vents as intended. From your description thus far, that does NOT sound like your case, so it appears we are dealing with ALL Front Air Delivery Flaps CLOSED, thus obstructing Front Air Delivery with MORE air than usual coming from the Rear Vents (it's gotta go somewhere ;-)

Since you have INPA, the logical choice is to crank that up and use it THREE different ways:
1) Run Functional Jobs > F4 > Fault Memory, ALL Modules, with particular attention to fault codes found in "78 IHKA87" or whatever Variant your Climate Control Module is. Create a ScreenPrint (Shft+PrtSc) and paste that image to "Paint" (Windows Accessory) or Photo Editor Software of your choosing. Save that Screen (and any other described below) in jpg format, and attach them to a post here (sized to ~ 50% so as NOT to affect margins of text in the post).

1a) For those playing at home who haven't used INPA for some time, a Functional Jobs "Tutorial" pdf is attached that explains how to do the steps above in detail. A "Tutorial" is also attached related to HOW to connect to the IHKA Module and Observe Flap Positions in Real Time, and other things.

2) Connect to the IHKA Module (E90 > Body/Karosserie > Air Conditioning / Control Panel; Select F4 > F1 Read Fault Memory (Fehlerspeicher Lesen); If there are Fault Codes saved there, there will also be DEFINITIONS of those Codes in German, and Fault Details which we can Translate using Google Translate. So rather than struggle with them, just post the ScreenPrints (jpg format) here as attachments, and we can all learn something together.

3) When Connected to the IHKA Module as described in (2) above, you can select IHKA > F5 > F4 Flap Positions (Klappen Positionen) and see the ACTUAL Positions of each of the Eight (8) Flaps in your system. You can then manipulate the control buttons on the A/C Panel, giving the flap motors 30 to 60 seconds to respond before changing selection, and observe if any "feedback" of changed position is received by the IHKA Module to which each Flap Stepper Motor is connected.

Here is the TIS circuit diagram for Heating and Air Conditioning Functions in 2008 & later US E9x models:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ontrol/uZS1ONq

Note that the 8 Flap Motors shown on the RIGHT side of the Schematic (NOT covering up in this instance ;-) are linked in Series by LIN BUS. Like a string of old Christmas lights (probably BEFORE your time ;-), anything Downstream (to the Right in the diagram) of a break or open circuit in the system will NOT be controlled by the IHKA Module. So even if you had NO Fault Codes (and I suspect you DO have Fault Codes related to Stepper Motors) you could locate the open-circuit point (if that were the issue) by determining which flaps work and which ones do NOT.

So NOW you should have everything you need to figure out the problem, but don't be afraid to ask questions, and PLEASE advise if any of the suggestions above are NOT clear or I should correct something. Asking questions saves time for all.

A jpg file of my INPA screen showing Flap Positions (when weather was warm and A/C was operating) is attached (That Screen shows properly-operating system in Cooling Mode with BOTH R & L Mixed air flaps at 0%), so anyone can get an idea of what INPA can do to help diagnose this issue.

George

[martynz]

gbalthrop
Hey George, any chance you could help with this issue and heating?

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...5#post27250235

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by martynz

gbalthrop
Hey George, any chance you could help with this issue and heating?

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...5#post27250235

Better than "Chance". Sorry I missed it before. See Posts #4 & #5 (ScreenPrint) just posted to thread above.

BTW, the Flap Positions ScreenPrint attached above to Post #17 was in "Full-cooling" Mode, so BOTH Mixed Air Flaps were at "0 %" position. You will note that in the Screenprint I just attached in the other thread, BOTH of those Flaps were at 80% to get significant heat with ambient temp of 3C and both thermostats set at 24C.

Cheers,
George

[Pa-Beer's e90]

A fantastic and informative thread so far. I am having similar issues with my e90. Studying and hoping to find an easy solution.