[335dlci]

Wouldnt hurt to reset them all since fuel trims and the scr system are affected

[madbim]

When you filled the DEF did you also do the DEF fill reset procedure? If so this sounds exactly like the issue I experienced with my 13' X5d, resetting the DEF triggers logic to test if you filled using the correct fluid. The test is conducted using pre and post NOx sensors; In my case because my NOx sensors were bad I failed the test and went into the 200 mile no start condition shortly after the DEF fluid refill procedure was preformed.

By the time I had all this sorted out I was down to 20 miles left, after replacing the NOx sensors I also had to initiate the DEF reset procedure again as this triggers another test. Once I got on the interstate and cruised at 70mph for about 15 miles the no start condition went away!

[BMWerkeUSA]

Originally Posted by 335dlci

Wouldnt hurt to reset them all since fuel trims and the scr system are affected

OK. Thanks!

[BMWerkeUSA]

Originally Posted by madbim

When you filled the DEF did you also do the DEF fill reset procedure? If so this sounds exactly like the issue I experienced with my 13' X5d, resetting the DEF triggers logic to test if you filled using the correct fluid. The test is conducted using pre and post NOx sensors; In my case because my NOx sensors were bad I failed the test and went into the 200 mile no start condition shortly after the DEF fluid refill procedure was preformed.

By the time I had all this sorted out I was down to 20 miles left, after replacing the NOx sensors I also had to initiate the DEF reset procedure again as this triggers another test. Once I got on the interstate and cruised at 70mph for about 15 miles the no start condition went away!

Thanks for sharing your experience!
No, I did not do any reset after filling the DEF fluid. The original "no start" message went away after a few miles of filling the fluid.

[335dlci]

Originally Posted by madbim

When you filled the DEF did you also do the DEF fill reset procedure? If so this sounds exactly like the issue I experienced with my 13' X5d, resetting the DEF triggers logic to test if you filled using the correct fluid. The test is conducted using pre and post NOx sensors; In my case because my NOx sensors were bad I failed the test and went into the 200 mile no start condition shortly after the DEF fluid refill procedure was preformed.

By the time I had all this sorted out I was down to 20 miles left, after replacing the NOx sensors I also had to initiate the DEF reset procedure again as this triggers another test. Once I got on the interstate and cruised at 70mph for about 15 miles the no start condition went away!

The car will do a self check after driving after upi fill it automatically
No need to initiate refill.

[zinner]

How did you do the "SCR Functional check" is that a ISTA-D job or something in IPNA? I have the same code as well however it's intermittent (non-existant) when I got into ISTA to check the code from the CEL on the dash.

[BMWerkeUSA]

Originally Posted by zinner

How did you do the "SCR Functional check" is that a ISTA-D job or something in IPNA? I have the same code as well however it's intermittent (non-existant) when I got into ISTA to check the code from the CEL on the dash.

I did the check using ISTA+. After ISTA+ establishes the connection and finishes reading the the fault memory, click on the button in the lower right corner called "Display fault memory". Once the faults are listed, you should have a button in the lower right corner called "Calculate test plan". After you click that, ISTA+ will list the test plan for each fault code. If you have an error code related to SCR or NOx sensors you should see an ABL row for each one of them. You want to click that row and then click the "Display" button in the lower right corner. Then, follow the on-screen instructions and you will be able to run the "SCR Functional check".

If you don't have an active code related to SCR/NOx, I would use the text search function under Vehicle Management/Troubleshooting. I don't know how to get there directly.

If the above instructions are not clear enough, I should be able to provide screenshots once we are done installing the new thermostat.

[zinner]

perfect thanks

[BMWerkeUSA]

Update:

The thermostat is now replaced. We took it for a 30 mile drive. The coolant temperature was 90+/- a few degrees. From what I have read, this looks good.
We also monitored the soot mass in the DPF using Carly. We started the drive with a soot mas of about 40g and by the time we came back home, it was about 0.2g. According to Carly, 1.5g is considered clean. And so I think that the DPF is in good shape as well. So this morning, I ran the SCR Functional Check. Here are the steps I followed:















Here are the results. NOx coversion ratio is only 46%



ISTA+ suggested that I replace the Catalytic converter and registered the following code memory:



After the test had been completed the following tests plans were added by ISTA+:


I ran the SCR system adjustments and restarted the engine a few times but the "no start in ?? miles" message is still there and here are the current codes:


So, do I really need a Catalytic converter? Are there any other suggestions based on the SCR System check that I should do?

Thanks

[robnitro]

Did you run the nox sensor test? If a sensor is borderline it can make the car think that the scr cat is bad. Also if the scr sprayer nozzle in the exhaust is clogged that will also make conversion look bad.

[BMWerkeUSA]

Originally Posted by robnitro

Did you run the nox sensor test? If a sensor is borderline it can make the car think that the scr cat is bad. Also if the scr sprayer nozzle in the exhaust is clogged that will also make conversion look bad.

The NOx sensor test was part of the SCR Functional Check test. You made a good point about the nozzle. In fact, we will try to look at it this evening to see if there is any crystallization either on the nozzle itself or on the port.

[BMWerkeUSA]

Just looked at the injector as well as the port and there is no evidence of DEF crystallization whatsoever. The next step is to drain the DEF and refill it with the BMW fluid instead of Peak BLUE DEF. Does anyone know of a DIY for draining DEF for an E70? Where are the drain plugs located? We looked at this document but it is not clear for me.

[robnitro]

I think you can see it by peeking from the opening by the transmission looking towards the pass side... That's how I found it iirc.

I think it's covered by the underbody panel right by the pass front door, I forgot so just peek around first before deciding which panel v you need to remove

Uncap the top for both tanks, and I used my pela6000 with silicone hose to extract it but I think gravity would take a long time.

[BMWerkeUSA]

Originally Posted by robnitro

I think you can see it by peeking from the opening by the transmission looking towards the pass side... That's how I found it iirc.

I think it's covered by the underbody panel right by the pass front door, I forgot so just peek around first before deciding which panel v you need to remove

Uncap the top for both tanks, and I used my pela6000 with silicone hose to extract it but I think gravity would take a long time.

Thanks! Will do.

[robnitro]

The front active tank you can also drain by opening that bumper panel, undoing the hose that fills it and using an extractor. That I did the first time.

Edit: also a siphon would work

[BMWerkeUSA]

Originally Posted by robnitro

The front active tank you can also drain by opening that bumper panel, undoing the hose that fills it and using an extractor. That I did the first time.

Good to know. Thanks!

[BMWerkeUSA]

Update 2:

We drained the DEF and filled it with the DEF fluid from the dealer. After driving the car a few miles, the "no start in ?? miles" message was still there. I decided to run the SCR Functional Check again and here are the results:




Note that the NOx conversion ratio is negative.
ISTA+ now says that the NOx sensor after SCR is faulty and needs to be replaced as can be seen from the following screen:




My car is covered under the 10 year/120K warranty for NOx sensors. I will now take it to the dealer. What is the best way to present this case?

[335stoner]

When buying DEF i read (from a truck site) that the Walmart brand is the "best" simply because it is very cheap and because of that people buy it a lot and its constantly moving off the shelves. Urea goes bad not really fast, but quicker than most would like (3months??), so it is likely you could have bought a bad batch from the get go..

there is a way to read the box and see when the manufacture date was. the two times i filled up i ran the good old supertech brand and didn't have any issues. At my local Walmart Peek is always on the shelf and the supertech is always a few bottles from being empty.

[robnitro]

Did you get a dde code for the nox sensors? There's a separate diagnostic for it iirc.
Tell them that they should be both replaced.... Because the other fails shortly after

I had a feeling it was those god forsaken sensors that are such a ripoff!

[BMWerkeUSA]

Originally Posted by robnitro

Did you get a dde code for the nox sensors? There's a separate diagnostic for it iirc.
Tell them that they should be both replaced.... Because the other fails shortly after

I had a feeling it was those god forsaken sensors that are such a ripoff!

As the last screen capture above shows, 46F2 was registered which is "DeNOx system, function". I am hoping that the NOx sensor is the problem. If that is the case, I will talk to them about the second NOx sensor as well.

[BMWerkeUSA]

Update 3:

I did not hear from the dealer yesterday and left a message. They called me this morning saying that they are replacing both NOx sensors under warranty and they will keep me posted.

Later in the afternoon, I got a text that the "no start in X miles" did not go away after a test drive and that I now have 0 miles to no start. They had used all 50-60 miles that I had when I took the car to the dealer. The text came with an attachment showing $472.73 to continue the diagnostics so that they can tell me what is wrong. It also said that there is only one start left.

To make the long story short, I told them that as long as there is one start, I would like to take the car home and I do not authorize any more work.

When I went to pick up the car, I found out that the technician reset the counter and I had 50 miles to no start.

Instead of paying the dealer $472.73 to tell me how much I really need to pay to fix the issue, if I pay $650 for a tune, I can solve this pesky "no start in X miles" problem for good and get a 70/80 boost in HP and Torque respectively. Does anyone have other suggestions?

[robnitro]

Maybe if you run the scr tests now, it will pass? With the new nox sensors it might work...