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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Technical Forum > V Power Diesel - Not Impressed



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      10-23-2011, 08:12 AM   #45
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I'm not really convinced so far, the fifth gear test proved a highly tuned petrol will benefit but there doesn't seem much proof to indicate that a diesel engine will benefit.

It's a pretty common marketing ploy, stick some vague facts and a bit of re-branding on a product and jack up the price. This argument reminds me of the usual body building supplement topic where you have all sorts of people making huge baseless claims about snake oils.

Found this posted on a Fiat forum:

Quote:
the v power argument is different for diesel than it is for petrol.

with petrol its a very simple case- if your engine is able to adapt to use a higher octane fuel (it is fully adaptive or mapped for 99ron) then there is a benefit. that means the vast majoprity of cars on british roads will see no benefit.

for diesel even the shell website does not explain how it differs to regular diesel fuel or exactly what the benefits are or how they are obtained. that alone should set alarm bells ringing.

if you do a bit of research you will soon learn that the only difference is that v-power has a liquid to gas additive. GTL's are made from natural gas in a very similar manner to the way we make mineral engine oils. GTL's reduce emissions and create a cleaner burn. you can use pure GTL as a fuel, but for shell v-power diesel they simply take regular diesel and add a small amount of GTL.

so what benefit is there to v-power? the shell website says that "cars running on 100% GTL fuel emit 25–40% fewer particulates and 40–85% less carbon monoxide than standard diesel fuel. When GTL fuel is blended with diesel, the local emissions reduction is at least in proportion to the percentage of GTL fuel added."

so to determine the effect v-power has on your emissions you need to know the blend percentage used in v-power. shell dont say on their website, but plenty of other sources say its 10% GTL and 90% regular diesel. that means we will get 10% of the shell declared benefits, so that means a 2.5-4% reduction in particulates and a 4-8.5% reduction in CO emissions.

but what about performance? that is what they sell it as, a high performance fuel. well unfortunately both shell and the rest of the industry agree that there is no performance benefit to using GTL, even if you use 100% GTL.

all this info is in the public domain and well proven, but i would bet £100 that 99% of v-power users are not aware that it is 90% regular diesel and 10% GTL. i would also bet £100 that they would not know that it is only designed to be a cleaner fuel, not a higher performance fuel. that ignorance is what shell take advantage of, not superior fuel technology.
Surely if he is correct and Shell don't actually claim more power then it truly is just a means of lowering emissions.

Last edited by CarAbuser; 10-23-2011 at 08:22 AM..
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      10-23-2011, 09:48 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel View Post
Wasnt pointed at you
no worries diseasel. Thought as I was the OP...........
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      10-23-2011, 09:57 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarAbuser View Post
I'm not really convinced so far, the fifth gear test proved a highly tuned petrol will benefit but there doesn't seem much proof to indicate that a diesel engine will benefit.

It's a pretty common marketing ploy, stick some vague facts and a bit of re-branding on a product and jack up the price. This argument reminds me of the usual body building supplement topic where you have all sorts of people making huge baseless claims about snake oils.

Found this posted on a Fiat forum:



Surely if he is correct and Shell don't actually claim more power then it truly is just a means of lowering emissions.
Its an interesting point - maybe premium diesel does not have the same effect as premium petrol.
But for me, my right foot tells me whether I want to put it in or not. As I've said before - if I couldnt tell any difference I wouldnt be spending an extra 5p a litre on it. Simple as.....

When you've run several tanks on it you probably get used to it. But when you come around to putting normal diesel in - you soon realise the car is a little flat on pick up.
TBH I think if you had an out and out race with an identical car with the two fuel's in each - I dont think there would be a lot in it, if anything. But I'm happy with it all the same.


Edit: the above is all based on BP Ultimate Diesel, in my own expeience and NOT Shell V Power diesel (as I said in the opening post)
I did try the Texaco premium diesel fuel once in my old 330d - but couldnt tell any difference with that either.

Last edited by dopper99; 10-23-2011 at 10:10 AM..
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      10-23-2011, 10:05 AM   #48
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I have tried Vpower in the past and noticed hesitation at lower revs but nothing noticeable at the top end.

I may try a few tanks now since I've had my car remapped just to see if the engine behanves any differently.
It was only 2p a litre more at the Shell in Oswestry for a while last year so ran it for a couple of months to test the increased mpg/power claims and couldn't really tell the difference.
At an 8p premium I think it begins to eat into the fuel savings that the diesel offers.
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      10-23-2011, 10:09 AM   #49
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I've just edited my post above to again state my experience is only with BP Ultimate diesel!
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      10-23-2011, 11:01 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmt335d View Post
There are only so many refineries in the UK, I very much doubt a supermarket uses there own refinery. I dare say much of the diesel is from the same place.
Correct.

Most fuels are from one place. Morrisons buy raw fuel on the spot market as do the other multiples.

But its the chemical additive pack the resellers blend it with that makes them all unique.

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      10-23-2011, 11:05 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel View Post
Runs smoother and has less detonation
Do you know how a diesel engine works?

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      10-23-2011, 11:09 AM   #52
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As a CC driver, I use the cheapest diesel fuel deal I can get.
Performance has been in line with manufacturers figures and economy often better with cheap crap diesel.
Last two cars were faultless from new until 90k plus miles.

With Petrol the premium is some 8% in cost?
But with V-Power petrol I realise that 8% back in economy and make more power so its a win win.
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      10-23-2011, 11:17 AM   #53
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Petrol and diesel are completely different. As is the way they work within the engine.

Higher octane petrol works and has been proven time and again it does.

Diesel on the other hand has no proven record of improvement and I don't even hear any company making any claims it does.

I'm surprised reading comments about a diesel engine running smoother and getting a couple of extra MPG. On saying that I've always felt that about any of my cars and quite often it's day to day with the same tank of fuel.

Guess a lot has to do with the placebo effect but I'm glad you guys are happy paying more for petrol. Pays my wages!
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      10-23-2011, 12:32 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m1bjr View Post
Correct.

Most fuels are from one place. Morrisons buy raw fuel on the spot market as do the other multiples.

But its the chemical additive pack the resellers blend it with that makes them all unique.

+1
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      10-23-2011, 01:29 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel View Post
Well looks like everyone was wrong about the BHP... Maybe...
I don't get videos at work but is that the fifth gear test of premium diesels? I remember seeing that and noting that the car did make more power with fuels like V-Power Diesel and BP Ultimate Diesel.

What I do think though is it's kind of hard to see if the fuel offers more economy just by looking at your OBC. Every time you drive, you'll use a tiny bit more or less fuel than the last time no matter how much you try and drive the same.

I wonder if anyone's done a similar test as to that fifth gear one, but for fuel economy. Even on a rolling road it should work. Put 20L in, run it until dry, note the mpg / trip distance when it runs out (obviously going to be way off real life figures). Then do the same but with a premium diesel and see what the mpg / trip is..

About as scientific as I can think of?!
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      10-24-2011, 06:25 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel View Post
After spending about £500 on V power in the last few months someone finally told me with a £25 V Power purchase you get a free Coffee!

So its pretty much cost neutral then
Not at either of the Shell garages near me, you don't
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      10-24-2011, 06:55 AM   #57
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i went to fill up today thinking of filling up with vpower and got put off by 148.9/litre for v power diesel so at the last minute just filled up with reg fuelsave diesel at 138.9 and stuck in a dose of millers.
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      10-24-2011, 07:11 AM   #58
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lol at detonation in a diesel engine
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      10-24-2011, 08:06 AM   #59
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When I put posh diesel in my car I often go to bed with that warm feeling inside me like you have just done a good deed for the day.

Can't say I can notice any difference though.
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      10-24-2011, 08:11 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveChester View Post
When I put posh diesel in my car I often go to bed with that warm feeling inside me like you have just done a good deed for the day.

Can't say I can notice any difference though.
Should be a cold feeling really Chris, due to the garage having had your pants down
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      10-24-2011, 08:20 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by creepy coupe View Post
Should be a cold feeling really Chris, due to the garage having had your pants down
No defo warm sensation trickling down my leg........
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      10-24-2011, 08:57 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel View Post
After spending about £500 on V power in the last few months someone finally told me with a £25 V Power purchase you get a free Coffee!

So its pretty much cost neutral then
Same here - after using it for years, last week, for the first time . I was offered a free coffee!
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      10-24-2011, 09:28 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel View Post
When my car is Dyno'd fairly soon we can put this to bed.
There is so many factors to take into account for rolling road figures.

The temperature alone could be enough to exaggerate any difference or even have the reverse effects.
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      10-24-2011, 01:12 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel View Post
Wonder what the 330D dyno comes out with when i get it remapped soon
More soot?

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      10-24-2011, 03:10 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel View Post
This is true.

But i have my 320D Dyno on standard fuel here also...

Wonder what the 330D dyno comes out with when i get it remapped soon
Why get it remapped? Thought you said its fast enough?
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      10-24-2011, 03:10 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel View Post
At least it wont spend more time in the garage than on the road

unlike your 335i

Ps.

At least my soot comes out the exhaust pipe rather than sticking to the engine
No idea what you are talking about.
Wrong guy perhaps?

My 2006 model 335i has never been 'in the garage' at all apart from a service.
And besides, if it did I would just use my new BMW while it was.

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