[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Originally Posted by Jesda

It's a discussion forum.

BIMMERPOST is an independant private enthusiast site dedicated to BMW fans around the world and is in no way affiliated or owned by BMW AG

Good luck changing anyone's mind here or making any difference to the brand. 140 characters on Twitter ended with #BMW does more good towards making a change than 5,000 words here. You can complain all you want about the car. I personally don't care how much they hate it, but I will definitely be getting entertainment at the amount of effort people will put into whining on deaf ears.

It might be more productive to scream at a wall: they can not only get their whining out, but activate their reptilian brain by screaming. It'd feel better, but then I wouldn't be able to read it...

Well, wait, I do care to a degree. Their complaining about their poor purchase experience, mechanical ineptitude, and bad decision-making makes searching for solutions to simple problems more difficult. It increases the number of pages of "HEY GUYS CAN WE SUE BMW OVER THE OIL FILTER HOUSING GASKET," and reduces the proportion of DIYs.

Ultimately, I really like my car. The bad experiences of others isn't my problem, nor do they change my personal experience with my vehicle. If I hated my car, I'd expend effort selling it rather than going onto a BMW enthusiast forum to tell a bunch of people who love their car why I hate my car and they should be hating theirs.

[CTinline-six]

Don't like it?

Buy something else. Pretty simple really.

I've owned a bunch of different vehicles, and they all have their ups and downs. Some of the ones with the biggest problems have actually been the "reliable" ones like Toyota.

Even those cars aren't what they were in the 1990s/early 2000s. The reason their cars were the most reliable was simplicity. If there are two new cars and one has direct injection, turbos, start stop technology, infotainment, etc, and the other has port injection, is naturally aspirated, and has a CD player, of course the second one will be more reliable.

It will be interesting because the playing field is becoming level. Honda is using turbos in their cars, and there are already issues. Pistons cracking, fuel dilution in the oil so bad it causes the oil levels to visibly rise on the dipstick, etc.

Cars break no matter what. A friend of mine's mom had the head bolts break on her Toyota Rav4, which after some research is a common problem. $4500 to fix, and it isn't even fun to drive.

[Aspen235]

There is always somebody who posts in this kind of thread something along the lines of "do your maintenance and it will be fine". I find this comical. There are frequent electrical, body, suspension, entertainment and HVAC issues for which there is no maintenance to do. So far after 2 years my e91 failures have zero to do with maintenance:

Eccentric shaft sensor corrupted with oil, no start, needed a tow (got this one covered luckily)
2 comfort access door handles died and shorted out
rear wiper pivot bearing
leaking headlamp washer
voice command is a joke, must only understand German
Bluetooth audio is finicky

I think the car is doing pretty well all things considered and I am still underwater on my aftermarket warranty. It drives nicely. No regrets.

[El Cheapo Loco]

Originally Posted by Bob Shiftright

BMW spared me that decision by discontinuing station wagons and SUVs with manual gearboxes in the US. I can't buy another one, even if I want too. I admit that I've considered an M2 -- but I really need that rear hatch.

So I'm not sure what I can buy next. Any ideas?

The car must have three pedals! I'm leaning towards a Golf R. (Yes, I know that going from a 328i to a VW is going from the frying pan into the fire as far as service and reliability.)

Subaru is supposed to be bringing back the hatch for the next gen STI. I'm eagerly awaiting...

[jt335i]

Problems! Problems! Problems! Blah blah blah! That's like 99.9999% of the posts you see on sites like this and other similar sites which makes one think that every single E9X (318, 320, 325, 328, 330, 335, etc, etc.) is a repair ridden money sucking wallet drainer. Well, not every single 3-series owner is a member of this site so you don’t get an accurate representation of everyone all over the globe who do have reliability problems as well as those who don’t. For those who don’t, you don’t hear from those people because when there are no problems there is nothing to talk about.
If you’re driving around your local area and see another person driving an E9X, talk to them directly. See how many you encounter and only then will you really get a better representation of reliability.

Me, I have a 2010 E92 335i which I bought brand new. Haven’t had any major mechanical or electrical problems with it where I was left SOL on the road in the middle of nowhere.
Of course, I have had to fix or replace common wear and tear things that come with age, but I don’t consider them reliability related. Maybe I am one of the fortunate few, or the majority, without any major reliability issues? Who knows. I just recently brought it to my trusted mechanic for regular maintenance and he is amazed at the minimal issues I've had with it compared to other 335s which he has had to fix all kinds of problems. The thing he told me about those other 335s is that those other owners, before they brought it to him, had their car serviced on by non-BMW mechanic/service centers who really don't know much about how to properly service a 335. My mechanic said these cars require specialized BMW technicians who really know what they're doing and know what are the correct parts to use. This goes the same for other model series and years.
Fortunately, my trusted mechanic used to work at the same BMW dealer where I first bought my 335 and he now operates his own independent shop. Although I have to wait a day or two or more, but I know he takes the time to do it right.

[hassmaschine]

On my 5th BMW now (still have the first 2). Still waiting for this horrible reliability everyone is talking about..

Besides if you've just bought a 10 year old/100k+ mile car (no matter what brand, make or model) and expected there to be absolutely nothing worn out you're going to have a bad time.

[doru]

Forums usually can skew the reliability of a certain car. Because it's usually a complain "tool", somewhere where someone can vent. Or find help.
BMW's are not perfect, but so are the other cars, including the "revered" reliability brand(s) like Honda or Toyota. Which, nowadays is closer to a myth. BTW, these latter cars had some real nasty issues. I will not reveal them but give a couple hints: "Camry" & "sludge". Do the search.

As far as reliability goes, stunningly enough here is a consumer report of best and worst cars. Take a couple of minutes to watch that vid.
And I also owned numerous BMW's with different engines, and honestly most of the "issues" I had were maintenance items and normal wear and tear. There were a few exceptions, but basically they were dealt with as preventative maintenance due to some forum hype.

BMW's are middle of the pack cars. Not cheap, but not overly expensive (not talking 7 series and other top of the line models, even the cheaper cars have these).

The main difference that sets them aside is the fact that they provide some very decent handling/satisfaction for even an entry level car compared to anything else.

And then you have the people that only drive the thing waiting for the CBS to tell them what to do, and if something goes wrong, they start bashing. Well, cars will do that: they will fail if you don't take care of them, but so does your house, no?

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Aspen235

There is always somebody who posts in this kind of thread something along the lines of "do your maintenance and it will be fine". I find this comical. There are frequent electrical, body, suspension, entertainment and HVAC issues for which there is no maintenance to do. So far after 2 years my e91 failures have zero to do with maintenance:

Eccentric shaft sensor corrupted with oil, no start, needed a tow (got this one covered luckily)
2 comfort access door handles died and shorted out
rear wiper pivot bearing
leaking headlamp washer
voice command is a joke, must only understand German
Bluetooth audio is finicky

I think the car is doing pretty well all things considered and I am still underwater on my aftermarket warranty. It drives nicely. No regrets.

lol I hear you....my 335i has been for the most part very reliable except the ABS/DSC pump failing....that's one **** of an "except" @ $4,200 at the dealer. Luckily with this forum and YouTube combined, I could DIY just that it took me a while to get the whole job done (we have work, kids, etc. that stand in the way of it getting our full attention). That's not always practical, most of us do not have 2 or 4 post lifts at home. I don't think it's German, our cars understand Hungarian and Turkish.

I did buy an 8 cyl. Lexus used, and have had it more than one year now, it was 11 y.o. when I bought it, and has had zero issues in over a year. It is a very different way of life and reminds me of my Maxima. But, to BMW's credit, imho the Japanese cars are not as fun to drive. You just can't have it all....

[BeastMode335i]

If people learned how to work on their own cars and do simple diagnostics, we'd not see 90% of these threads to begin with..

[GoRomeo]

Originally Posted by doubletee

Precisely why I've hung onto my 2006 E90 330i. Still have the "feel" without all of the technological marvels that tend to overly complicate the newer models.

well said my son...

[GoRomeo]

The only reason I would buy another BMW will be for the "new car smell" THAT IS IT! edited... sorry nevermind thats extra too..!!

[BravoJohny33]

Originally Posted by BeastMode335i

If people learned how to work on their own cars and do simple diagnostics, we'd not see 90% of these threads to begin with..

You pretty much must have INPA or software like INPA to work on these cars.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by BravoJohny33

You pretty much must have INPA or software like INPA to work on these cars.

or a Foxx / Schawben scanner.

[Jesda]

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

Good luck changing anyone's mind here or making any difference to the brand. 140 characters on Twitter ended with #BMW does more good towards making a change than 5,000 words here. You can complain all you want about the car. I personally don't care how much they hate it, but I will definitely be getting entertainment at the amount of effort people will put into whining on deaf ears.

EXACTLY. BMW isn't going to send you a box of cookies for blindly praising the brand. It's a machine. It has issues. Don't take it so personally.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by doubletee

Precisely why I've hung onto my 2006 E90 330i. Still have the "feel" without all of the technological marvels that tend to overly complicate the newer models.

I have to admit going in on the E90 11 years ago in 2006 the tech things that I was concerned about for longevity were the Valvetronic (throttle-less) system and the e-dipstick. The stupid oil life monitor issue aside, both systems proved to not be a concern after all. The electric water pump, I had no concern with in 2006 when I was considering the E90, yet that proved to be a major problem with the N52. My 1999 Honda Valkyrie Interstate (motorcycle) with it's flat-six has an electric water pump and has been problem free for 18 years. The electric water pump was a very poor execution of a great idea IMO. The electric water pump gives no hint of failure other than codes in the ECU, so if the car is not routinely scanned, the pending failure of the pump is never known. Belt driven pumps for the most part are designed to leak coolant and the order is a tell tale sign to check for a cooling system issue. BMW should have a water pump fault code warning light of some sort such as a flashing yellow low coolant light, or perhaps a flashing yellow over-temp light. But the WP and T-stat are like any BMW problem that crops up: it becomes well known, easily solvable via repair, and BMW fixes the issue with a part update.

What I best appreciate about BMW is they produce/stock almost every part for their cars 15 to 20 years post the last production date. I'm not sure they will continue to do so past the F3X chassis, since it seems like the company's mantra of keeping BMWs into 2nd and 3rd tier ownership has gone out the window along with the handling DNA.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by jt335i

Problems! Problems! Problems! Blah blah blah! That's like 99.9999% of the posts you see on sites like this and other similar sites which makes one think that every single E9X (318, 320, 325, 328, 330, 335, etc, etc.) is a repair ridden money sucking wallet drainer. Well, not every single 3-series owner is a member of this site so you don’t get an accurate representation of everyone all over the globe who do have reliability problems as well as those who don’t. For those who don’t, you don’t hear from those people because when there are no problems there is nothing to talk about.
If you’re driving around your local area and see another person driving an E9X, talk to them directly. See how many you encounter and only then will you really get a better representation of reliability.

Me, I have a 2010 E92 335i which I bought brand new. Haven’t had any major mechanical or electrical problems with it where I was left SOL on the road in the middle of nowhere.
Of course, I have had to fix or replace common wear and tear things that come with age, but I don’t consider them reliability related. Maybe I am one of the fortunate few, or the majority, without any major reliability issues? Who knows. I just recently brought it to my trusted mechanic for regular maintenance and he is amazed at the minimal issues I've had with it compared to other 335s which he has had to fix all kinds of problems. The thing he told me about those other 335s is that those other owners, before they brought it to him, had their car serviced on by non-BMW mechanic/service centers who really don't know much about how to properly service a 335. My mechanic said these cars require specialized BMW technicians who really know what they're doing and know what are the correct parts to use. This goes the same for other model series and years.
Fortunately, my trusted mechanic used to work at the same BMW dealer where I first bought my 335 and he now operates his own independent shop. Although I have to wait a day or two or more, but I know he takes the time to do it right.

Great post. I bolded the most important thing to know about owning any BMW. Taking a BMW to a non-BMW trained technician is counter productive to maintaining the car for longevity. Most of them will break the machine.

[slupie]

What pisses me off the most is the gasket design, oil leaks, upon oil leaks. 2007 N52 here and I fix one oil leak and another starts up somewhere else. Fixed oil filter housing gasket leak, valve cover started leaking, fixed that, oil pan started leaking. From 110k miles, 141k currently nothing but oil leaks. The cost of the gaskets is not the issue it the amount of labor hours that it takes to replace the shitty gaskets that are going to leak soon again. My E39 had over 155k miles and none of the gaskets leaked.

[jt335i]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Great post. I bolded the most important thing to know about owning any BMW. Taking a BMW to a non-BMW trained technician is counter productive to maintaining the car for longevity. Most of them will break the machine.

Thanks bro! Been bringing my 335 to my trusted mechanic since the first day I drove my car new off the lot. I had him do the first oil change after the break-in period then after that the only times I took my ride back to the dealer was during the free oil change maintenance period and for the HPFP and battery cable recall.

The only other thing I need to bring it back to the dealer for is the airbag replacement. Yeah. I got the letter, but I don't care or plan on getting it done anytime soon. Still pissed off I had to wait so long, even though I am in the high priority state (FL), while others in non-high priority states made up some BS sob story reason with their local dealer and in 2 seconds they get their replacement served in a silver platter. The dealer may not care if I do it or not, but I don't give a crap. I will bring it in whenever I feel I'm ready.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Great post. I bolded the most important thing to know about owning any BMW. Taking a BMW to a non-BMW trained technician is counter productive to maintaining the car for longevity. Most of them will break the machine.

I think this is key. Even being a DIY'er and researching how to fix problems correctly can prevent a lot of headaches compared to going to someone who while trained, has no idea. For example, mechanics who know nothing about BMWs might not know that the bolts for the OFHG and water pump are one time use. Little things like that will cause problems later down the road. The sad part is even some of the dealers have techs that are only familiar with the newer cars, or are part swappers. If swapping a part doesn't fix an issue they are lost. I do most of the repairs/maintenance to my GF's 325i and it has been a solid machine. I'm not the most technical person (haven't coded anything yet), but I pay attention to details making sure the job is done right. The first time she took it to a shop, the guy working on it created a mess of problems by over-torquing bolts, using the wrong parts, etc.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The electric water pump gives no hint of failure other than codes in the ECU, so if the car is not routinely scanned, the pending failure of the pump is never known. Belt driven pumps for the most part are designed to leak coolant and the order is a tell tale sign to check for a cooling system issue. BMW should have a water pump fault code warning light of some sort such as a flashing yellow low coolant light, or perhaps a flashing yellow over-temp light. But the WP and T-stat are like any BMW problem that crops up: it becomes well known, easily solvable via repair, and BMW fixes the issue with a part update.

So about that.. when I first got into the computer of the N52, I figured out how to make those error codes trigger the SES light. Theoretically, if the DME found a problem with the pump, it should throw an error code before the pump completely dies. Right? There are codes for pump speed, communication, power draw, etc.

Nope - it doesn't matter. The error codes don't pop up until after the pump is dead. In fact 3 of the 4 codes don't do anything until you drive the car about a mile with a dead pump.

However, there was one thing that did help - the temperature thresholds for the "yellow" and "red" warning lights. IIRC the defaults are 120c for yellow and 125c for red. I reduced these to 115/120c. That did actually buy my wife some extra time to get off the highway (before doing any damage).

I was able to limp the car home under the "yellow" warning (pulling over to cool down when it changed to red), which really isn't much of a concern - the maximum programmed temp on these engines is 112c, so 115c isn't much to worry about.

That the pump finally died at 130k miles doesn't really bother me - it's the failure mode that is aggravating. It runs perfectly fine until it doesn't. It shouldn't just completely die, there should be warning signs - maybe the thresholds for pump current draw need to be lowered or something. Or maybe somebody should design a pump with a brushless motor (my best guess as to why the N52 pumps die, as the housings are aluminum and the ones I've torn down don't appear to have leaked or caused circuit damage). And make the housing for the N54 out of something other than cheap shitty plastic..

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

So about that.. when I first got into the computer of the N52, I figured out how to make those error codes trigger the SES light. Theoretically, if the DME found a problem with the pump, it should throw an error code before the pump completely dies. Right? There are codes for pump speed, communication, power draw, etc.

Nope - it doesn't matter. The error codes don't pop up until after the pump is dead. In fact 3 of the 4 codes don't do anything until you drive the car about a mile with a dead pump.

However, there was one thing that did help - the temperature thresholds for the "yellow" and "red" warning lights. IIRC the defaults are 120c for yellow and 125c for red. I reduced these to 115/120c. That did actually buy my wife some extra time to get off the highway (before doing any damage).

I was able to limp the car home under the "yellow" warning (pulling over to cool down when it changed to red), which really isn't much of a concern - the maximum programmed temp on these engines is 112c, so 115c isn't much to worry about.

That the pump finally died at 130k miles doesn't really bother me - it's the failure mode that is aggravating. It runs perfectly fine until it doesn't. It shouldn't just completely die, there should be warning signs - maybe the thresholds for pump current draw need to be lowered or something. Or maybe somebody should design a pump with a brushless motor (my best guess as to why the N52 pumps die, as the housings are aluminum and the ones I've torn down don't appear to have leaked or caused circuit damage). And make the housing for the N54 out of something other than cheap shitty plastic..

I'm not bragging here, but to my knowledge, and I've been active on this Forum since 2006 when I ordered my car in April 2006, I was the first owner to discover the water pump codes. I posted a very long thread on it back in July 2011 when my pump died at 149,000 miles. IIRC in 2009 is when I bought my Bav Tech scan tool. In the fall of 2010, my t-stat started throwing codes, which do trigger the SES light. I finally replaced the t-stat in early 2011 and at that time first saw the water pump codes 2E81 for slow pump speed. In 2011 there was no information I found anywhere about what the code meant (the Bentley Service manual had not come out yet), so I didn't concern myself with it. Also, I looked up the part cost for the pump and it was a whopping $450 from Tischer BMW. Two months and 6,000 miles later on a 100 deg. July day the pump went tits up (and I put two and two together). Other than opening the electronics housing it didn't tear down my pump, but all the conformal coating on the electronics had melted off the components, so I know the electronics got very hot, which I attributed to the pump failure. Here's my notes from my service records:

[hassmaschine]

That may be - but as I said, it didn't do anything for me even when programmed to set an MIL. I think maybe there are circumstances when the errors might pop up before pump failure, but in my case (and I assume many more) it fails without any warning at all. Even modifying it specifically to trigger a light didn't help as the codes didn't set until after the pump had already died. I never got to test it on our E91 (which died at 90k miles on a cold winter day), since I didn't get around to flashing it with my 'upgrades' until after the pump had died. That pump showed no obvious sign of failure.

Either way, that BMW programmed by default it to only set an error internally where nobody could see it is idiotic at the very least. If your car had been running my software back in 2011, you would have seen the SES light right away and known something was up without having to read out the computer manually.

Back in 2011, you could have used Tool32 to pull all of the error codes (with explanations). I doubt even a fraction of BMW enthusiasts know how to do that even now.

Funny enough, my original thermostat is fine. I didn't replace it as it's not nearly as difficult to get to, and the replacement I had on hand (purchased just to see what a $25 thermostat looked like) was poor enough quality that I didn't think it was worth swapping. The pump I used was only about $90 (also purchased just to see what an uber-cheap pump looked like) - it seems to be fine. It even says it's made in Germany, although these days that doesn't mean a whole lot..