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      07-06-2019, 05:49 PM   #2773
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Originally Posted by Chris1337 View Post
How exactly does the launch control work? Does it keep the torque limited only for the second the car is getting off the line or till traction is made?
6 speed or 8 speed?

6 speed I think it only allows you to set a torque limit for first gear. Pick the option in the app, it explains how it works in the settings screen for launch control.

Custom Launch Control 8-Speed: Launch Control is a 2-Step process. It gets activated only in
S/Sport+ or S/Traction mode of your vehicle. Place your car on a safe, level and straight street.
Move your Gear Lever to S and put the car into Traction or Sport+ mode. Now press the brake
VERY hard and quickly apply full throttle with the kickdown switch depressed. On vehicles with
LC from factory you willsee "Launch Control active" on your dash. The amount of boost/torque
your car is allowed to build while the brake is depressed is setup with the "Set Launch Torque"
slider. After releasing the brake the Car tries to manage torque and traction along programmed
presets which can be tuned up and down with the "Torque Scaling After Launch" slider. 0% is
the factory setting and is optimized for stock cars. Tuned cars may need different settings. You
are free to experiment with those settings and find your personal best.
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      07-07-2019, 09:20 AM   #2774
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But when you set that torque limit in 1st for the launch control for the 6 speed, does it always keep that torque limit?

Or only when you brake boost and after that it goes back to normal for 1st gear?
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      07-07-2019, 12:04 PM   #2775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gprnick View Post
But when you set that torque limit in 1st for the launch control for the 6 speed, does it always keep that torque limit?

Or only when you brake boost and after that it goes back to normal for 1st gear?
Ingot the same question, I just worded it horribly
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      07-08-2019, 12:09 AM   #2776
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Originally Posted by gprnick View Post
But when you set that torque limit in 1st for the launch control for the 6 speed, does it always keep that torque limit?

Or only when you brake boost and after that it goes back to normal for 1st gear?
In the app it says that it restricts maximum torque during brake boosting and through 1st gear. I assume those are different torque values because you will not build enough boost while brake boosting to approach the 350 ft/lbs they recommend as a starting point for a rear wheel drive car. S-Mode or Manual Mode for optimal results. Also I would assume you want to turn dsc/traction control all the way off but hopefully RBT-Tuning can offer more information. Until then this is as much as your going to find out without testing it yourself as every car/road/situation will be different. I have not tested it myself as I use a custom tune I made myself and I limit 1st and second gear power through my load requests which limit requested torque and boost.

This tune is a work in progress, My load values (guessing, need to do more data logs and put them on datazap) should be around 12 psi at the 150 load area 1st gear,16-17 psi in second and 20-21 3rd-6th

https://datazap.me/u/scottxp800/log-...ata=3-13-18-22

This ^^^^^ is a log of a 1800 rpm brake boost launch in 1st. 0 boost until 2000 rpm, about 5 psi at 3000 rpm. 13 pounds of boost with 155 load request (4800-5200 rpm), it spun a little too much so I lowered load request to 150. 2nd gear made about 17.5 psi with 175 load request, spun in 2nd too so I lowered it to 170. My waste gates are worn out so good stock turbos might spool up faster.
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Last edited by 2007BMW335i; 07-08-2019 at 12:14 AM..
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      07-08-2019, 03:02 AM   #2777
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Yes I hope they can clarify about that. Ideally would be that in D it would have "unlimited" torque and when you put it in S or M it would limit the torque in 1st gear for brake boost launching.
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      07-08-2019, 12:26 PM   #2778
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To my understanding if you brake boost 1st gear it will limit torque. if you do not brake boost you have full torque in 1st gear
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      07-09-2019, 02:17 PM   #2779
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I have an interesting question.
Between us, there is anyone, the whom, could be able to share the differences, between a hp26 and the more robbuts hp28, about astepronic automatic generation?
If it was possible, would be good to know the XHP effect even.
Maybe some owner with both 330d and 335d.
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      07-09-2019, 07:50 PM   #2780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthuar View Post
I have an interesting question.
Between us, there is anyone, the whom, could be able to share the differences, between a hp26 and the more robbuts hp28, about astepronic automatic generation?
If it was possible, would be good to know the XHP effect even.
Maybe some owner with both 330d and 335d.
The 6HP28 is part of ZF's portfolio of 2nd-Generation 6-Speed Automatic Transmissions — replacing the 6HP26. Other 6HP transmission technical revisions to 2.0 include:
  • 6HP21 replacing the 6HP19
  • 6HP34 replacing the 6HP32

Highlights of the 2nd-Generation (vs. 1st-Generation) 6HP units include:
  • Shift times significantly decreased (by at least 50%)
  • Shift response times significantly decreased (by at least 50%)
  • Higher torque handling capability (for each of the new 6HP models)
  • Ability to skip gears entirely (3-1, 4-1, 5-1, 4-2, 5-2, 6-2, 5-3, 6-3, 6-4) — not to be confused with sequentially targeting a gear that is 2 or more ratios away
  • Ability to skip gears without compromising shift speed
  • Supports Neutral Idle Control (NIC), which allows decoupling the torque converter at a standstill
  • Oil cooling volume control (able to increase flow by up to 50%)
  • Earlier torque converter lock-up (can lock the torque converter as early as at or below 1000 RPM)
  • Torsional dampers filter out vibration from low-RPM torque lockup
  • Much finer tuning of shift processes using Adaptive Shift Strategy (what ZF calls ASIS), allowing for extremely fast yet smooth shifts, regardless of torque input and over a very wide range of wear
  • Between 3-6% improved efficiency

The 1st-Generation 6HP was released in 2001. The 2nd-Generation 6HP was released in 2006. And, while they have many similarities, they are significantly different in terms of shift dynamics, shift speed and response, and efficiency. The 2nd-Generation 6HP is the world's first mass-produced automatic transmission that was comparable to dual-clutch transmissions in terms of shift speed and response (capable of 80 ms shift times). The 2nd-Generation 6HP was also used as a shift dynamics benchmark when developing the 8HP. And, even after the 8HP was launched, ZF claimed that the 6HP 2.0 was still the benchmark in terms of shift speed and dynamics — with shift speeds/response at the level of dual-clutch transmissions (and, in case you didn't know, ZF produces Porsche's PDK). Of course, BMW didn't tune the transmissions to fully take advantage of the 6HP 2.0's capabilities for non-M cars — however, they did for the X5M and X6M. For these 2 vehicles, some automotive journalists were unable detect any difference in performance from DCT-equipped vehicles (as they could execute extremely fast shift times, within the span of a single cylinder firing event). Now, XHP allows all owners of 6HP 2.0 transmissions to more closely reach their full potential. 6HP 1.0 transmissions can also greatly benefit from XHP — however, it is not possible for them to perform as dynamically as the 6HP 2.0 with an equivalent XHP tune.

[Slightly off-topic]

Most do not know/appreciate how incredibly capable, sophisticated, and complex the 6HP (namely 2.0) units are:
  • Capable of shift times within threshold of human perception
  • Adapts shifts dependent on
Individual clutch temperatures
Gradient
Load
Wear
Clutch friction coefficients (at varied temperatures and for each respective clutch)
Engine operating parameters
Shift mode
Steering angle
Wheel slip
Actual input torque vs acceleration
Traction/stability control inputs
And many others
And any/all combinations of the above
All of the above is conducted in closed loop, with each of the clutches independently operated by way of individual pressure regulators and commanded and coordinated by algorithms backed by thousands of tables and hundreds of maps — with each of these being adapted in real time, depending on the situation. And, with short-term and long-term adaptation capabilities. By far and bar none, the ZF6 2.0 and ZF8 transmissions are some of the most sophisticated, well-engineered, over-built automatic transmissions ever produced.

To XHP's credit, XHP simplifies XHP features and the work that has been done for each vehicle and application — so that most consumers can (more/less) understand what they're getting. However, the ACTUAL WORK that goes into tuning these units is beyond most people's wildest imagination. It literally requires thousands of development hours to tune each shift (imagine having to time and tune each off-going clutch and on-coming clutch while reducing engine torque at the precise moment, all in milliseconds, for different engine speeds, different gear shifts, different torque levels, different vehicle weights, different ratio spreads, different final drive ratios... and on and on and on) — and maintaining smooth/seamless driveability. And, we're not even talking about what is required to crack through the security layers of the TCU and reverse engineer all pertinent functionality to allow for a proper flash. And, yet, all we do is pay a modest sum, connect an Android device, and flash. Even only partially understanding the amount and work and complexity involved in this endeavor, I would be willing to pay $1,000 or more for this product (don't misunderstand; I'm glad to pay less; however, I'd be willing to pay more). If you think that's outrageous — there are TCU tunes in the wild, for other vehicles, that cost several times what XHP asks, without any of the added customization features afforded by the XHP app.

[Back on-topic]

You can read more about the 2nd-Generation 6HP here:

Last edited by E60535i; 07-09-2019 at 07:58 PM..
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      07-10-2019, 02:16 AM   #2781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E60535i View Post
The 6HP28 is part of ZF's portfolio of 2nd-Generation 6-Speed Automatic Transmissions replacing the 6HP26. Other 6HP transmission technical revisions to 2.0 include:
  • 6HP21 replacing the 6HP19
  • 6HP34 replacing the 6HP32

Highlights of the 2nd-Generation (vs. 1st-Generation) 6HP units include:
  • Shift times significantly decreased (by at least 50%)
  • Shift response times significantly decreased (by at least 50%)
  • Higher torque handling capability (for each of the new 6HP models)
  • Ability to skip gears entirely (3-1, 4-1, 5-1, 4-2, 5-2, 6-2, 5-3, 6-3, 6-4) not to be confused with sequentially targeting a gear that is 2 or more ratios away
  • Ability to skip gears without compromising shift speed
  • Supports Neutral Idle Control (NIC), which allows decoupling the torque converter at a standstill
  • Oil cooling volume control (able to increase flow by up to 50%)
  • Earlier torque converter lock-up (can lock the torque converter as early as at or below 1000 RPM)
  • Torsional dampers filter out vibration from low-RPM torque lockup
  • Much finer tuning of shift processes using Adaptive Shift Strategy (what ZF calls ASIS), allowing for extremely fast yet smooth shifts, regardless of torque input and over a very wide range of wear
  • Between 3-6% improved efficiency

The 1st-Generation 6HP was released in 2001. The 2nd-Generation 6HP was released in 2006. And, while they have many similarities, they are significantly different in terms of shift dynamics, shift speed and response, and efficiency. The 2nd-Generation 6HP is the world's first mass-produced automatic transmission that was comparable to dual-clutch transmissions in terms of shift speed and response (capable of 80 ms shift times). The 2nd-Generation 6HP was also used as a shift dynamics benchmark when developing the 8HP. And, even after the 8HP was launched, ZF claimed that the 6HP 2.0 was still the benchmark in terms of shift speed and dynamics with shift speeds/response at the level of dual-clutch transmissions (and, in case you didn't know, ZF produces Porsche's PDK). Of course, BMW didn't tune the transmissions to fully take advantage of the 6HP 2.0's capabilities for non-M cars however, they did for the X5M and X6M. For these 2 vehicles, some automotive journalists were unable detect any difference in performance from DCT-equipped vehicles (as they could execute extremely fast shift times, within the span of a single cylinder firing event). Now, XHP allows all owners of 6HP 2.0 transmissions to more closely reach their full potential. 6HP 1.0 transmissions can also greatly benefit from XHP however, it is not possible for them to perform as dynamically as the 6HP 2.0 with an equivalent XHP tune.

[Slightly off-topic]

Most do not know/appreciate how incredibly capable, sophisticated, and complex the 6HP (namely 2.0) units are:
  • Capable of shift times within threshold of human perception
  • Adapts shifts dependent on
Individual clutch temperatures
Gradient
Load
Wear
Clutch friction coefficients (at varied temperatures and for each respective clutch)
Engine operating parameters
Shift mode
Steering angle
Wheel slip
Actual input torque vs acceleration
Traction/stability control inputs
And many others
And any/all combinations of the above
All of the above is conducted in closed loop, with each of the clutches independently operated by way of individual pressure regulators and commanded and coordinated by algorithms backed by thousands of tables and hundreds of maps with each of these being adapted in real time, depending on the situation. And, with short-term and long-term adaptation capabilities. By far and bar none, the ZF6 2.0 and ZF8 transmissions are some of the most sophisticated, well-engineered, over-built automatic transmissions ever produced.

To XHP's credit, XHP simplifies XHP features and the work that has been done for each vehicle and application so that most consumers can (more/less) understand what they're getting. However, the ACTUAL WORK that goes into tuning these units is beyond most people's wildest imagination. It literally requires thousands of development hours to tune each shift (imagine having to time and tune each off-going clutch and on-coming clutch while reducing engine torque at the precise moment, all in milliseconds, for different engine speeds, different gear shifts, different torque levels, different vehicle weights, different ratio spreads, different final drive ratios... and on and on and on) and maintaining smooth/seamless driveability. And, we're not even talking about what is required to crack through the security layers of the TCU and reverse engineer all pertinent functionality to allow for a proper flash. And, yet, all we do is pay a modest sum, connect an Android device, and flash. Even only partially understanding the amount and work and complexity involved in this endeavor, I would be willing to pay $1,000 or more for this product (don't misunderstand; I'm glad to pay less; however, I'd be willing to pay more). If you think that's outrageous there are TCU tunes in the wild, for other vehicles, that cost several times what XHP asks, without any of the added customization features afforded by the XHP app.

[Back on-topic]

You can read more about the 2nd-Generation 6HP here:
Being an old happy XHP customer, no need to say how much I have been satisfied with it.
Nonetheless, I am glad to you for this teacher technical lesson.
Thanks for your wrote.
Really.
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      07-11-2019, 02:07 PM   #2782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1337 View Post
To my understanding if you brake boost 1st gear it will limit torque. if you do not brake boost you have full torque in 1st gear
Verified: 6HP trans, launch control Limits torque while your foot is on the brake and at wide open throttle..When you release the brake you will go back to your normal 1st gear power level. (a.k.a. load request)

What to do: Make sure launch control is enable in the app, put trans. in S or M mode, Apply brake firmly, go to wide open throttle immediately. I was hesitant and in my graph you can see the load request went above the set limit in launch control because I was still at part throttle. Once I went full throttle brake on, the set torque limit in launch control kicked in.

This was my second attempt at using launch control. The first time I used the recommended 350 ft/lbs and it immediately spun the tires.(all season 255/40-18's) The second time I dropped it to the lowest setting (the recording on datazap). 212 ft/lbs or so, I have gone up one click, around 238 ft/lbs. I will continue to do this until in spins too much and then lower it back down.

I also just pressed the DTC button once during this attempt. Not sure what is recommended or will be best. Just had the DTC showing, did not disable DSC.

https://datazap.me/u/scottxp800/log-...2-26&zoom=0-43
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