[Yangorang]

Thought I'd share my UOA with the stainless steel filter if anyone was curious.
2008 BMW 328xi with Liqui Moly Special Tec 5W-30 LL-01 Oil for 8584 miles.
Stainless Steel K&P S38 oil filter purchased from ECStuning installed at the time of the last oil change.

[bluewater328]

Nice. This is kinda tempting to just have to replace the seal bands. I suppose my only question is does it just require a wipe down or do you really have to wash/dry just with an empty OFH sitting there?

[Efthreeoh]

So what are these data supposed to tell us?

[Yangorang]

Originally Posted by bluewater328

Nice. This is kinda tempting to just have to replace the seal bands. I suppose my only question is does it just require a wipe down or do you really have to wash/dry just with an empty OFH sitting there?

Honestly it's really not very easy to clean consistently and this is the biggest drawback of this filter. The filter typically draws oil from the outside in so you get a lot of stuff stuck to the outside surface. You have to pretty much try and wash it best you can with soap and water first, then blast it from the inside out with brake/carb cleaner or something similar. I additionally used an ultrasonic cleaner with distilled water.

FYI the two o-rings internal to the filter are -223 Buna-N per K&P if you ever want to replace them. I keep a few spares on hand since they are difficult to dig out.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Yangorang

Honestly it's really not very easy to clean consistently and this is the biggest drawback of this filter. The filter typically draws oil from the outside in so you get a lot of stuff stuck to the outside surface. You have to pretty much try and wash it best you can with soap and water first, then blast it from the inside out with brake/carb cleaner or something similar. I additionally used an ultrasonic cleaner with distilled water.

FYI the two o-rings internal to the filter are -223 Buna-N per K&P if you ever want to replace them. I keep a few spares on hand since they are difficult to dig out.

So you are using this thing because? Seems like a waste of money and PIA, for a problem solved about 60+ years ago.

[Yangorang]

It's not for everyone, but I don't mind spending a good 20minutes to clean the thing while I'm waiting on my oil to drain anyway. I also like the benefit of not having to purchase paper filters and being able to more easily visually see caught particles on the filter surface.

K&P additionally advertises better filtration and increased flow rate, but I take this with a grain of salt. At the very least the UOA shows the filter appears to be doing it's job, and my overall fuel efficiency has been pretty much unaffected.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Yangorang

It's not for everyone, but I don't mind spending a good 20minutes to clean the thing while I'm waiting on my oil to drain anyway. I also like the benefit of not having to purchase paper filters and being able to more easily visually see caught particles on the filter surface.

K&P additionally advertises better filtration and increased flow rate, but I take this with a grain of salt. At the very least the UOA shows the filter appears to be doing it's job, and my overall fuel efficiency has been pretty much unaffected.

So this got me even more curious than last time I looked at this filter a few months ago. ECS tuning states the H&P filters down to 35 microns (maybe they mean 0.35 microns?). I found specs for the MANN HU816x filter (OE for the N52) at https://mypartsgarage.com/catalog-2/...ilter/hu-816-x, which indicates the MANN filter filters to 20 microns ("micron rating 20").

Good point about cleaning it while waiting for the oil to drain. I rotate tires during that time... But I'm a dripper... so I let the last bit of oil drip from the oil pan; I even insert a copper wire to help it drip more, so I could still clean the filter AND rotate tires

K&P states there is a magnet in the top of the filter to pre-clean the oil of ferrous metal particles. What does it take to get the magnet clean of metal particles? Can you see the magnet in the filter element body?

[bluewater328]

So assuming that everyone changes their oil about twice a year, to make this worthwhile, this has to either have better filtration or similar filtration with better flow and last more than 5yrs after purchase (since average mann filter costs ~$10, give or take). So it comes down to how long you may keep the car from a financial perspective.

Not putting it down as it's still something to think about. Just not sure how long I'll keep this. Also in my case, I usually change oil at the Hobby Shop (hey lift + free oil disposal/boxes)...so washing it would actually be awkward — though I get where you could maybe do the cleaning while its still draining.

Does it require anything special (like specific degreasers or literally a hair dryer to get it dry enough) to clean? Do you use tap water to rinse?

[Yangorang]

I think I asked K&P about the magnet before but I'm not 100% sure...I think most of their filters have magnets built in but this specific one does not since the design is a bit different than most of their screw-on ones. Some argue that it can potentially increase power with a higher flow rate or oil cooling capability by being more heat conductive but there's really no real data on any of that.

Here's a statement from K&P on paper filtration media:

We use ASTMF316 testing procedures which eliminate many of the user variables found in the SAE procedures. Basically, the filter media is pressurized from one side, and when the media starts passing particles, that is the micron rating. We sent filter media from several common brands of paper filters to the lab to be run through the ASTM test. We sent the media to the lab with no names, just numbers for identification so they wouldn’t have any idea what brand filter they were testing. The results for the paper filters ranged from 48 microns for the best filter to over 300 microns for the worst filter. Our tests were right in line with other testing results we have researched that have paper media filters passing particles anywhere between 50 and 90 microns. What does this mean? Paper filters are rated on averages, percentages of efficiency (also known as beta ratios) and multiple passes, so a 10 micron rated paper filter (as advertised on the packaging) may be letting particles 50 microns and larger through. The medical grade stainless steel cloth that we use is consistent across the entire media surface and is rated at 35 microns, meaning nothing larger than 35 microns should pass through the material. The bottom line is we meet or exceed the filtration performance of OEM filters, eliminating any warranty issues.

Here's a good article explaining filter ratings: http://hydraulicsolution.com/2016/11...tions-ratings/
So ultimately K&P chose whatever testing procedure yielded a favorable result for them which every company does. My interpretation is the stainless filter performs more consistently but the overall mesh is probably a big bigger. Who knows....hence why I posted a UOA which as I understand the spectrometry testing is essentially measuring individual atom composition and should be a good representation of oil cleanliness in real world usage.

I'm not going to argue at all that this is a huge money saver....honestly if you buy the o-rings every time and brake cleaner then you're barely saving money at all. If anything maybe you're just being a bit more green. Best case you're saving $10 like you said - that's why it's more popular of a tech with motorcycles and semi truck fleets where they have to do oil changes more often.

Something that can really cut through the oil like simple green or similar would probably work best for cleaning but simple dish soap and a sink works. It's also nice to have a toothbrush or similar to get some of the more stuck on particles off. I would recommend using either distilled water or blast it brake/carb cleaner as a last step. Personally I ultrasonic it in distilled and blast it with compressed air but I realize not every has an ultrasonic cleaner or air compressor. It's no good for minerals to dry on the filter media or for any water to get inside your engine.

[Efthreeoh]

Thanks for the open minded discussion about the filter. It seems to work for you, and that's the main point.

[Yangorang]

I'll continue to take and post UOAs here to see how they turn out. Kind of interesting and curious to see.
I did confirm something with Blackstone - so the Universal Averages column is specifically average data from other N52 engines and not the entire market.

[bluewater328]

Originally Posted by Yangorang

I'll continue to take and post UOAs here to see how they turn out. Kind of interesting and curious to see.
I did confirm something with Blackstone - so the Universal Averages column is specifically average data from other N52 engines and not the entire market.

So does that mean that those numbers are only based off 7400 miles of average usage (from those that submit)? testing after initial 7400 miles from factory? that YOU have gone 7400 miles since your last interval? Or are they comparing based on segments within your reported odometer milage?

It seems to mean 7400 miles of average interval of all submissions, but just confirming.

[Yangorang]

The universal averages are based on 7400 miles traveled average on N52 engines. So essentially other N52 owners submitting UOAs must be changing their oil on an average of 7400 miles, unless they are somehow sampling mid-cycle.

My particular submitted sample ran for 8584miles in my engine. So I ran for a bit longer than average.

[hassmaschine]

What that report really tells me is you changed your oil too soon. It seems like this filter would go well with the extended oil change intervals on the N52.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

What that report really tells me is you changed your oil too soon. It seems like this filter would go well with the extended oil change intervals on the N52.

As does the OEM MANN filter, which I can attest to.

I have to be skeptical here a bit. While data can be taken from oil analysis and ascertain engine wear aspects for the load of oil the sample was taken from, I still have some reservations that the data can also be a reliable and precise predictor of future wear performance under a new load of oil. I think there are too many other factors that contribute to engine wear than just how well the oil performs under a few instances of use.

I understand that fleet management services use oil analysis to keep track of engine wear (for eventual engine rebuild), but I don't think they use it to determine oil change intervals. I would think fleet management use the engine manufacturer's recommended service intervals and lubricant specifications. From my discussions with people in the commercial transportation business, commercial heavy-duty engine manufacturers offer seriously long warranties on the order of 500,000+ miles. I would think those warranties also come with strict adherence to the manufacturers suggested service intervals and specifications for lubricants and filters.

Just my opinion.

[Yangorang]

I wanted to report on some additional experience I've had with this S38 stainless oil filter.
Originally installed at 60705 miles
Oil change and cleaned at 69289 miles - no issues with stainless filter at this time.
I had to change the oil filter housing gasket at 73300 miles so I drained the oil and upon inspecting the filter found that about half the pleats had collapsed.

When I reported this to K&P they stated this was due to the filter becoming clogged up with too much debris and being subjected to too much pressure. The thing is the OE paper filters last 15000 miles perfectly fine and this thing hasn't even been in service for that long so either the pleats on the stainless filter are too weak or it just doesn't have as much debris filtering capacity as the paper filter does. (or my engine is on its way out) I guess it's also possible the K&P filter just filters so well that it plugged itself up very quickly...who knows. What also doesn't make sense to me is if it was so clogged up I would've expected the oil bypass valve to kick in before the pleats collapsed.

It was an interesting experiment for me though and a cool concept overall, but probably not for the masses.

[Efthreeoh]

Thanks for the update. Interesting findings. I use to use K&N air filters in all my vehicles, but ended up realizing they didn't improve performance (horsepower nor fuel economy) and risked MAF damage, so I switched back to paper elements. With a fleet of 4 cars and a motorcycle, it is easer to just drop in a new OE filter every 45,000 miles.

[bluewater328]

Originally Posted by Yangorang

I wanted to report on some additional experience I've had with this S38 stainless oil filter.
Originally installed at 60705 miles
Oil change and cleaned at 69289 miles - no issues with stainless filter at this time.
I had to change the oil filter housing gasket at 73300 miles so I drained the oil and upon inspecting the filter found that about half the pleats had collapsed.

When I reported this to K&P they stated this was due to the filter becoming clogged up with too much debris and being subjected to too much pressure. The thing is the OE paper filters last 15000 miles perfectly fine and this thing hasn't even been in service for that long so either the pleats on the stainless filter are too weak or it just doesn't have as much debris filtering capacity as the paper filter does. (or my engine is on its way out)

They also stated that my cleaning technique must have been insufficient the first time I did it. As far as cleaning goes, I use brake cleaner and a toothbrush, as well as an ultrasonic cleaner. I believe this is beyond what any typical person would have as far as cleaning this thing goes.

I have a specially designed hose fixture to force water from inside the filter outwards that I was going to use in the future but didn't have it at the time of the 69289mi oil change.

Overall like many have said it's more effort and cost than it's worth, and it also appears that the overall debris capacity of the S38 filter may be less than the OE filter. It was an interesting experiment for me though and a cool concept overall.

Thanks for the honest assessment.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Thanks for the update. Interesting findings. I use to use K&N air filters in all my vehicles, but ended up realizing they didn't improve performance (horsepower nor fuel economy) and risked MAF damage, so I switched back to paper elements. With a fleet of 4 cars and a motorcycle, it is easer to just drop in a new OE filter every 45,000 miles.

I never had a problem with mine, but I don't over-oil. Also, I deleted the MAF on my 330i like 3 years ago.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

I never had a problem with mine, but I don't over-oil. Also, I deleted the MAF on my 330i like 3 years ago.

I have no doubt you did.

Just running on a hassmachine map?

[Yangorang]

K&P offered to send me a new SS oil filter and were interested in getting some test data on my engine. They are wanting me to periodically visually inspect (and send pictures) and clean the filter if needed to see how it does over time.

They seem like good folks overall and I'm curious to partake in this research. I'll try to post my findings here as well in case anyone else is interested.

[Mike_H_]

Originally Posted by Yangorang

K&P offered to send me a new SS oil filter and were interested in getting some test data on my engine. They are wanting me to periodically visually inspect (and send pictures) and clean the filter if needed to see how it does over time.

They seem like good folks overall and I'm curious to partake in this research. I'll try to post my findings here as well in case anyone else is interested.

I bought one of these filters and am wondering if there is any additional information you could share.

My concern is that the filter appears to filter well but may clog easily and with no bypass, this could lead to oil starvation.

Did you continue to use the filter or did you return to using a conventional name brand one?