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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > ECU readout sent to BMW for Warranty.. Chip Issues?



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      02-07-2008, 05:58 AM   #1
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ECU readout sent to BMW for Warranty.. Chip Issues?

So i had my heater fixed, they installed a radiator, heater exchange unit and reporgrammed the car´here in germany.

In order to get the warranty they needed to send an ECU readout to BMW Main company but they had me stop by first and remove my procede..

My question is, with the procede removed will my ECU readout show any limps or secrets that will show i had a chip in even though it was removed? I dont think i can afford the ridiculous bill they want to send me if they find a reason to deny
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      02-07-2008, 08:37 AM   #2
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I don't think anyone here can answer this question, as there are specific codes that can only be read/cleared by BMW. Good luck.
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      02-07-2008, 08:40 AM   #3
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      02-07-2008, 09:18 AM   #4
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I think you are wise to be concerned. It is amazing how much info the DME stores. On my car it stored a code that it misfired, but it stored the exact date, mileage, RPM, throttle position, oil temp, water temp, exactly which cylinder misfired, road speed...craziness since the car did not go into limp mode or throw a CEL. It also stored the fact that I disabled DSC (another event).

The dealership can check codes and clear them before sending info to BMW I think. You should ask.
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      02-07-2008, 09:54 AM   #5
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It also stores how many time you farted, composition of meal ingested to produce fart, left or right leg lift, SBD, and whether you opened the windows afterwards
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      02-07-2008, 10:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White05X3 View Post
I think you are wise to be concerned. It is amazing how much info the DME stores.
+1

I'd like to add that warranty is handled differently here. Warranty will be voided by ANY changes on the engine that BMW can proof. They would not have to proof that the damage is the result of the tune.

As there are many different types of memories (and memory banks) on the ECU you can be assured that BMW can read way more than just OBD and some BMW sepcific codes that should help the dealership for better diagnosis. A dealer also doesn't have access to the encryption key of the MSD80...

@Rambino: Pls keep us posted and good luck!!

Just my 0.02$
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      02-07-2008, 10:03 AM   #7
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Shit this is ridiculous, you buy a car and have to baby it because BMW tracks what you do with your car...
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      02-07-2008, 10:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn555ic View Post
Shit this is ridiculous, you buy a car and have to baby it because BMW tracks what you do with your car...
Let's calm down a bit again, according to Shiv Procede is not detectable for BMW as long as you don't leave it in the car. Based on the functioning of piggybacks that remark make sense doesn't it?
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      02-07-2008, 10:26 AM   #9
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So if they can read all that cant they tell that the Boost is way out of the range that they set it at? wouldnt that be enough for them to tell that you had some sort of engine tune?
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      02-07-2008, 10:45 AM   #10
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Well the dealer knows i have it, as they told me come uninstall it prior to the software upgrade.. my concern is if the readout of the ecu that was sent to Main BMW Headquarters will cause the the warranty to be voided for my Heat exchange unit. I really think this would be ridiculous as the 2 are in no way connected but who knows.. Ill let everyone know what they say by next week

Wish me luck!
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      02-07-2008, 10:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chitown335i View Post
So if they can read all that cant they tell that the Boost is way out of the range that they set it at? wouldnt that be enough for them to tell that you had some sort of engine tune?
Not with a piggy... It changes signals back to ECU so it doesn't have any clue what boost you're running.
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      02-07-2008, 11:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDomer View Post
Not with a piggy... It changes signals back to ECU so it doesn't have any clue what boost you're running.
The ECU doesnt have a clue? My understanding is that V2 takes advantage of the built-in loop boost control system so the ECU must know something about what's going on!
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      02-07-2008, 11:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarveOut View Post
Let's calm down a bit again, according to Shiv Procede is not detectable for BMW as long as you don't leave it in the car. Based on the functioning of piggybacks that remark make sense doesn't it?
That is true, if you pull the Procede cleanly the dealer may overlook it (assuming you don't butcher the wires). Notwithstanding the above, the ECU stores information, which even (I dare say) Shiv may not be privy to.
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      02-07-2008, 07:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDomer View Post
Not with a piggy... It changes signals back to ECU so it doesn't have any clue what boost you're running.
Naive comment...

They modify what, three or four signals? What about the multitude of other inputs, not to mention the torque management function and its interaction with the ancillary systems? They have thresholds as well and you can bet it monitors them all. And all these limp modes? Everyone one is snapshot and stored. Just because a CEL isn't present doesn't mean a error code isn't thrown. Then there is the shadow memory which is also only readable by BMW equipment; your local auto parts store code reader won't even see them. The MSD80 operation is so far above all these piggy company's heads the only solution is to trick it out of spec. Safe? We shall see.

Your statement alone is the perfect decription of why piggybacks and signal massagers are faulted: "it (the car) doesn't have any clue what boost you're running". Yet it is expected to work correctly. Bad logic.
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      02-07-2008, 08:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn555ic View Post
Shit this is ridiculous, you buy a car and have to baby it because BMW tracks what you do with your car...
Totally agree. Road and track and motortrend do not do unbiased reviews. They are paid by BMW and others to do these reports. Not opinion, FACT. They brag about how damn fast it is and shake the hell out of our Id with acceleration numbers and void the warranty for anything more than picking up eggs and milk.
Great product BMW but bullshit policies are tarnishing one of your best makes ever. It's too bad.
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      02-07-2008, 08:35 PM   #16
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The dealer in Chicago was very cool about my mods but warned me they may not be as friendly at other dealers. Well I can vouch for that now that I have been in Phoenix. The tech stated crap like "this screw is missing paint so we know it has been opened, blah, blah, blah." I kid you not, this is the type of crap they have started at BMW. Be extremely careful. You are almost better off paying for it yourself and installing it, if you can, then to let them know something is not right. If you don't take the electrical tape residue of the wires, your toast. If the wire comes around the others instead of in the groove with others, your toast. Bottom line, unless you have a friendly site, which is rare, they can deny you what ever they want to no matter how head strong you are. Just be careful.
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      02-07-2008, 08:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rambino View Post
Well the dealer knows i have it, as they told me come uninstall it prior to the software upgrade.. my concern is if the readout of the ecu that was sent to Main BMW Headquarters will cause the the warranty to be voided for my Heat exchange unit. I really think this would be ridiculous as the 2 are in no way connected but who knows.. Ill let everyone know what they say by next week

Wish me luck!
I dont know how it works there, but since they have already done the work it would be way to late for them to try to deny coverage here in the US. You had the work done under agreement that it was a warranty repair. Couldn't You simply point out that you would have taken the car to an independent (and much cheaper) shop if it wasn't done under warranty?
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      02-07-2008, 09:56 PM   #18
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I'm sure you're right in general, and yes I used to be naive about this piggyback situation. I am no longer so naive (just a little ). Boost is not measured as being high by the ECU when piggybacks are used (usually ). If boost was altered and not invisible to the ECU, then no piggyback ECU would work. That was my point. Nothing more. Other signals are not intercepted, but are also not out of spec. If they were, again, the piggy wouldn't be effective. Would it? Now the trouble is keeping all readings from all ECU inputs on all cars constantly "in spec" all the time with only control on a few sensors. I think this gets to your point. Point well taken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvelPhx View Post
Naive comment...

They modify what, three or four signals? What about the multitude of other inputs, not to mention the torque management function and its interaction with the ancillary systems? They have thresholds as well and you can bet it monitors them all. And all these limp modes? Everyone one is snapshot and stored. Just because a CEL isn't present doesn't mean a error code isn't thrown. Then there is the shadow memory which is also only readable by BMW equipment; your local auto parts store code reader won't even see them. The MSD80 operation is so far above all these piggy company's heads the only solution is to trick it out of spec. Safe? We shall see.

Your statement alone is the perfect decription of why piggybacks and signal massagers are faulted: "it (the car) doesn't have any clue what boost you're running". Yet it is expected to work correctly. Bad logic.
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      02-07-2008, 10:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rambino View Post
My question is, with the procede removed will my ECU readout show any limps or secrets that will show i had a chip in even though it was removed? I dont think i can afford the ridiculous bill they want to send me if they find a reason to deny
Yes, if they are looking they will know. You can be 100% sure of that. Most likely they are not looking and do not care though and it's some sort of procedure.
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      02-07-2008, 10:18 PM   #20
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It also stores how many time you farted, composition of meal ingested to produce fart, left or right leg lift, SBD, and whether you opened the windows afterwards
That was funny. Give the guy some .
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      02-07-2008, 10:30 PM   #21
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I was wondering why I was getting such detailed nice compliments about my wife from BMW.
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      02-07-2008, 10:33 PM   #22
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PM Eugen and get his advice. He knows a fair bit about this issue.
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