[FL335]

FYI the newly used "Shell" oil in the states is Pennzoil Pure Plus which is Shell over in Europe. Shell branded in the states is Pennzoil.

So use 0-40 Pennzoil and you're in good shape.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by VTECaddict

First you said the Castrol EDGE Professional LL-01 5w40 is just "claimed" to meet LL-01. Now you say that same oil is in fact "BMW approved".

BTW, the Castrol Edge Professional 5w40 and Professional OE 5w40 specs also show one difference, namely, Viscosity@100C(13.6 for Professional, 13.9 for Professional OE), so that is one piece of fact/evidence to show those two are different oils too.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by FL335

FYI the newly used "Shell" oil in the states is Pennzoil Pure Plus which is Shell over in Europe. Shell branded in the states is Pennzoil.

So use 0-40 Pennzoil and you're in good shape.

A local Audi dealer stocks Penzoil Platinum Euro SAE 5W-40, which probably is the one matching LL-01(has not seen the label/spec sheet of approves versus recommends/exceeds wordings).

[Brettb1234]

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/73A258BA225A396680257D03006D47BE/$File/EDGE%20US%20PDS.pdf

This is the pdf for Castrol Edge (Black Bottles) which I think vtec posted earlier

"OEM Approvals by grade:"

Checked off for BMW Longlife-01: 0W-30, 0w-40, and 5w-40

These are also the bottles that say "Recommended by world leading car manufacturers." right before it lists all the ones. Other bottles say "Castrol EDGE exceeds the world's toughest blah blah blah". Another one I saw just says "Specifications" before listing them. Doesn't have to say approval on it, the statements are more or less marketing.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Brettb1234

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/73A258BA225A396680257D03006D47BE/$File/EDGE%20US%20PDS.pdf

This is the pdf for Castrol Edge (Black Bottles) which I think vtec posted earlier

"OEM Approvals by grade:"

Checked off for BMW Longlife-01: 0W-30, 0w-40, and 5w-40

These are also the bottles that say "Recommended by world leading car manufacturers." right before it lists all the ones. Other bottles say "Castrol EDGE exceeds the world's toughest blah blah blah". Another one I saw just says "Specifications" before listing them. Doesn't have to say approval on it, the statements are more or less marketing.

Your quoted spec has a few discrepancies:

1. it is issued in UK
2. it does not clearly state it applies to product purchased in the US.

Is your quoted Castrol Edge spec sheet for UK products?

In contrast, the Edge Professional OE spec sheet is issued in US(NJ), and it clearly states ".... the information contained herein is based on products purchased in the U.S."

My trust would be on the Professional OE oil.

[VTECaddict]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

That list of BMW approved oils is dated 2008, and my understanding is that the list has since been updated. Also note that the list says Castrol 5w30, but Castrol Edge Professional OE spec sheet no longer lists 5w30 as LL-01(it only lists 0w40 and 5w40 as LL-01).

You are cherry picking and blindly ignoring facts presented.

The BMW list from 2008 list doesn't mention Castrol 5w30 anywhere. No one is even mentioning Castrol 5w30 except you. Yes it's from 2008, but "Castrol Syntec European Formula 0w30" is the same as the current "Castrol EDGE European Formula 0w30" (also previously called Castrol EDGE with SPT and colloquially known as "German Castrol" or "GC") in black bottles. Castrol just changed the marketing name of it.

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Also, check this out for Castrol EDGE Professional LL-01 5w40.

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/2630DB0B1035EB5780257DE200380515/$File/BPXE-9U7KKH.pdf

It clearly states:

Product Performance Claims: BMW LL-01.

So basically the manufacturer wants the customers to believe their claim that the oil exceeds BMW's spec, without BMW acknowledging that claim.

The PDS for "Castrol EDGE Professional 5w40" (non-OE) that you said only "claims" to meet LL-01 specifically says in it "Castrol EDGE Professional LL01 5W-40 is approved for use in vehicles that require a BMW Longlife-01 approved 5W-40 lubricant."

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Your quoted spec has a few discrepancies:

1. it is issued in UK
2. it does not clearly state it applies to product purchased in the US.

Is your quoted Castrol Edge spec sheet for UK products?

The PDS for "Castrol EDGE" is the one linked from the Castrol site if you search for the PDS for EDGE in the United States, despite being issued from the UK. The file name as you can see from the URL is "EDGE US PDS.pdf", so it does apply to the US.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by VTECaddict

You are cherry picking and blindly ignoring facts presented.

The BMW list from 2008 list doesn't mention Castrol 5w30 anywhere. No one is even mentioning Castrol 5w30 except you. Yes it's from 2008, but "Castrol Syntec European Formula 0w30" is the same as the current "Castrol EDGE European Formula 0w30" (also previously called Castrol EDGE with SPT and colloquially known as "German Castrol" or "GC") in black bottles. Castrol just changed the marketing name of it.

The PDS for "Castrol EDGE Professional 5w40" (non-OE) that you said only "claims" to meet LL-01 specifically says in it "Castrol EDGE Professional LL01 5W-40 is approved for use in vehicles that require a BMW Longlife-01 approved 5W-40 lubricant."

The PDS for "Castrol EDGE" is the one linked from the Castrol site if you search for the PDS for EDGE in the United States, despite being issued from the UK. The file name as you can see from the URL is "EDGE US PDS.pdf", so it does apply to the US.

Ok so the approved list says 0w30, but neither 5w30 nor 0w30 is listed as LL-01 approved on the Edge Professional OE spec.

The issue with the Edge Professional(non-OE) spec is that it is inconsistent, it mixes approval and claims together on the same sheet. So should you cherry pick the approval part, or the claims part? Or do you blindly ignore the approval part, or the claims part? And as pointed out in previous post, Professional(non-OE) and Professional OE are different oils.

The strongest fact presented is the the Edge Professional OE spec clearly states:

"Castrol EDGE Professional is endorsed and recommended by our OEM partners: Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mazda, Mini, Volkswagen and Volvo. It is also available to any new car dealership."

The above statement is as strong BMW approval as you can get. It is consistent and without ambiguity, and best of all, there is no cherry picking needed. If you prefer to blindly ignore this factual statement in the spec that is your choice.

Does it mean the Edge black bottle is no good? No, it just means the OE gold bottle is closer to the BMW re-branded Castrol than the non-OE. There is a few(not a lot)black bottles in my stockpile, those will be my top-off oil if needed, but my oil change will be with Castrol OE or BMW oil.

As for the Castrol Edge spec, do note that the statement of product origin is cut off, as in "the information contained herein is based on products purchased in", it does not say "in the US". Does that post some doubts in your mind, or do you blindly ignore that too?

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by VTECaddict

"Castrol Syntec European Formula 0w30" is the same as the current "Castrol EDGE European Formula 0w30" (also previously called Castrol EDGE with SPT and colloquially known as "German Castrol" or "GC") in black bottles. Castrol just changed the marketing name of it.

One more thing, "German Castrol" or "GC" refers to gold bottle Professional OE among local dealers. If one asks for a black bottle of "German Castrol", the response will be, "Huh?!?"

[PhaseP]

Sorry if already posted, this pdf is accessed by specifically selecting USA as country from Castrol website, for the "Castrol EDGE Professional - European" oils sold in US:
http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/Fu..._July_2012.pdf

As can be seen "0W40 A3" and "5W40 OE" are LL01 spec, out of the "Castrol Edge Professional" oils for USA.

I believe "0W40 A3" "Castrol EDGE Professional - European" is the black bottles found in Walmart. I used it in the past, sometime Mobil 1 0W40 when it was LL01, and sometimes BMW branded Castrol.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by PhaseP

Sorry if already posted, this pdf is accessed by specifically selecting USA as country from Castrol website, for the "Castrol EDGE Professional - European" oils sold in US:
http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/Fu..._July_2012.pdf

As can be seen "0W40 A3" and "5W40 OE" are LL01 spec, out of the "Castrol Edge Professional" oils for USA.

I believe "0W40 A3" "Castrol EDGE Professional - European" is the black bottles found in Walmart. I used it in the past, sometime Mobil 1 0W40 when it was LL01, and sometimes BMW branded Castrol.

Our local Walmart only carries black bottle Castrol Edge (non-Professional) 0w40. Some local auto stores carry gold bottle Castrol Edge Professional (non-OE). Only dealers(and some indies) carry gold bottle Castrol Edge Professional OE.

Do note that the spec sheets of Castrol Edge 0w40(black bottle) and Castrol Edge Professional OE 0w40 A3(gold bottle) show that they are two different oils, specifically, the "viscosity 210F SUS" are different.

BTW mine is Professional 5w40 OE.:thumbup:

[Brettb1234]

This fvcking thread

[Cory S]

This is the Castrol 0W-40 LL-01 you can get from Amazon. I am running it now.

So, the Gold bottle is superior???

http://www.amazon.com/Castrol-03101-...=Castrol+LL-01

[JustDriveIt]

Just bought some Mobil-1 0w-40 European car formula yesterday from AdvanceAuto, It said it was approved for use in BMWs and LL-01 was checked.

[PhaseP]

I don't see any 0W-40 OE Castrol Edge European LL01 anywhere.

The black bottle Walmart sold Castrol 0W-40 Edge European is LL01, and is the A3. It is right on the bottle face says SAE A3/B4. Behind it lists LL01. It says exceeds, meaning satisfies and better.

The pdf I linked says "approval" of LL01.

Only the 0W-40 viscosity black bottle Castrol Edge is LL01 in Walmart. And that is the only one that has "European" label on it. Other black bottle Castrol Edge's are not and don't have the European label on them.

0W-40 LL01 oils are approved to be used in these engines, I can find an older BMW document that says this.

5W-40 LL01 Castrol Edge looks like only available as "OE" version.
Next oil change I will grab a Walmart Castrol 0W40 European, again

[PhaseP]

About viscosity, see this document which I copied sections below. The document is dated end of 2005, but includes N52. My engine is dated too anyways, 2006 N52

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/BMW-O...s-and-Recs.pdf

BMW longlife oils, as specified for all BMW vehicles since 1998, are tested by BMW to ensure that they
can be used anywhere in the world, at any time of year, regardless of ambient temperature. If BMW
longlife oils are used, it is therefore not necessary to keep a check on the viscosity grade. The exception
is the M47TÜ2: for SAE 5W-X oils there is a lower temperature limit of -20°C. Cold-starting difficulties
may occur at lower temperatures. In countries where outside temperatures frequently fall below -20°C,
we therefore recommend 0W instead of 5W products. BMW Longlife oils are only available in the
viscosity grades SAE 0W-30, SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30 and SAE 5W-40.


BMW special oils:
SAE 0W-X and SAE 5W-X oils (X can mean 30, 40, 50 or 60) can be used all year round anywhere in
the world any ambient temperature. For SAE 10W-X oils there is a lower temperature limit of -20°C.
Cold-starting difficulties may occur at lower temperatures

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by PhaseP

I don't see any 0W-40 OE Castrol Edge European LL01 anywhere.

The black bottle Walmart sold Castrol 0W-40 Edge European is LL01, and is the A3. It is right on the bottle face says SAE A3/B4. Behind it lists LL01. It says exceeds, meaning satisfies and better.

The pdf I linked says "approval" of LL01.

Only the 0W-40 viscosity black bottle Castrol Edge is LL01 in Walmart. And that is the only one that has "European" label on it. Other black bottle Castrol Edge's are not and don't have the European label on them.

0W-40 LL01 oils are approved to be used in these engines, I can find an older BMW document that says this.

5W-40 LL01 Castrol Edge looks like only available as "OE" version.
Next oil change I will grab a Walmart Castrol 0W40 European, again

You are correct, the "Professional OE 0w40" is indeed labeled "Professional A3 0w40" just as the Professional OE spec says. The only time this is seen about here is at high end indies, and it looks like this(gold bottle too):

http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/osh...110&item_id=34

[PhaseP]

The only time this is seen about here is at high end indies, and it looks like this(gold bottle too):

And is it because it is Europe only available (unless imported to US) version of the Walmart "European" Castrol 0W40 LL01?

Your link is to UK site.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by PhaseP

And is it because it is Europe only available (unless imported to US) version of the Walmart "European" Castrol 0W40 LL01?

Your link is to UK site.

My guess is this Professional A3 0w40(which shows up in the Professional OE spec for US oil) is still imported to US, but is not stocked by Walmart and most other auto stores.

The Walmart black bottle is Castrol Edge, not Castrol Edge Professional.

The link to UK site is to show the picture of the bottle seen at local (US) indies.

[PhaseP]

I think you are reading too much into the marketing words used.
The PDF says "EDGE Professional European" oils
You claim the Walmart Edge which lists LL01 behind it, doesn't contain the word "Professional" and so that PDF doesn't apply to it.
Then using same logic I can say that bottle you link to doesn't contain the word "European" on it, so that pdf doesn't apply to it either
That only shows Castrol is not able to keep track of their own marketing words between different geography.

At the end of the day the bottle lists LL01 behind it, I am fine with it.

[PhaseP]

Another document from Castrol USA site below linked.
Note this one only says "Castrol Edge" at its title.
Then under "Industry Specifications and OEM Approvals by Grade:" titled table shows 0W40 A3/B4 is BMW LL01

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/Fu...20US%20PDS.pdf

[PhaseP]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Your quoted spec has a few discrepancies:

1. it is issued in UK
2. it does not clearly state it applies to product purchased in the US.

Is your quoted Castrol Edge spec sheet for UK products?

In contrast, the Edge Professional OE spec sheet is issued in US(NJ), and it clearly states ".... the information contained herein is based on products purchased in the U.S."

My trust would be on the Professional OE oil.

I see that the pdf I had linked above had already been brought up to attention and you had replied to it.
On your points, it is not issued in UK, it only lists the address of Castrol as UK, because it is a British company
The PDF is downloaded from Castrol US, the file name as others pointed out already is "EDGE US PDS.pdf". The document also has this inside it:

"MSDS's are available upon request through your sales contact office, or via the Internet at www.castrol.com/us"

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by PhaseP

I think you are reading too much into the marketing words used.
The PDF says "EDGE Professional European" oils
You claim the Walmart Edge which lists LL01 behind it, doesn't contain the word "Professional" and so that PDF doesn't apply to it.
Then using same logic I can say that bottle you link to doesn't contain the word "European" on it, so that pdf doesn't apply to it either
That only shows Castrol is not able to keep track of their own marketing words between different geography.

At the end of the day the bottle lists LL01 behind it, I am fine with it.

As long as you are fine with it then there is no issue, isn't it?

As far as Castrol Edge Professional OE 5w40, the current inventory at dealer is actually made in the USA(not imported), plus the back label(in English) says:

"Approved and licensed specifications: BMW Longlife-01(and the other Porsche and VW specs and such)".

This is pretty clear to me this Castrol Edge Professional OE 5w40 is BMW approved LL-01(tested and approved by BMW). It retails for $8.50 at dealer, which is cheaper than the Autozone's Castrol Edge 0w40 European Formula, and the Castrol Edge 5w40 US(both retail at $9). My OE 5w40 was bought around $5 to $6(tax included), so there is no rush to "restock" at full retail.

BTW, the Autozone's Castrol Edge 0w40 European Formula says "recommended by world leading car manufacturers", while Castrol Edge 5w40 US say "exceeds tough industrial standards", neither of those says "approved: BMW LL-01" in the back label like the OE 5w40.