[Beisofmarko]

Edit: Everything is installed and now problem
with battery draining, or? (see post #18)



Hello,

I'm in the progress of installing jehnert doorboards which
include 3x 6,5" speakers per door.
I'm looking for some help with the wiring.

I'm running front as 3-way active and have another 2-channel amplifier
for doorboads, 1-channel to each crossover at doorpanel.

My problem is:
- How do i wire each set of 3x 6,5" speakers from the crossover?
- Instructions show a wiring diagram for 4x 6,5" speakers (underseats are connected
to same wiring in this case)
- Speakers are 4 ohm, amplifier is 2-channels 330wrms @4ohm so 110wrms per speaker.

Here is a piece of art, demonstrating the my current wiring and where i need guidance:




Thanks!

[Beisofmarko]

I guess it's not simple as this?

[ctuna]

As I recall the one or two that did doorboards here used two channels
for the 6.5's per side. One channel was shared by one underseat and one of the doorboard speakers. That would mean you would need three sets of wires
running into the doors.(for active)or two for semi active. Why don't you call Jehnert and see what they say.
That would mean you would need 2 ohm stable channels if wiring n parallel.
Didn't the doorboards come with some instructions.
This is going to depend on if you have a 2ohm stable amp .
Otherwise series parallel combinations that add up to 4 ohms per channel.

[Beisofmarko]

Originally Posted by ctuna

As I recall the one or two that did doorboards here used two channels
for the 6.5's per side. One channel was shared by one underseat and one of the doorboard speakers. That would mean you would need three sets of wires
running into the doors.(for active)or two for semi active. Why don't you call Jehnert and see what they say.
That would mean you would need 2 ohm stable channels if wiring n parallel.
Didn't the doorboards come with some instructions.
This is going to depend on if you have a 2ohm stable amp .
Otherwise series parallel combinations that add up to 4 ohms per channel.

I did contact them but i'm waiting for the reply.
They came with instructions but this is the only wiring diagram it has:


I assume my amp is stable at 2ohm's, it says:
2 x 330 W RMS @ 4 ohm
2 x 550 W RMS @ 2 ohm
2 x 852 W RMS @ 1 ohm

However i mentioned that i allready run front as 3-way active via pp82dsp
and was recommended ~300wrms amp @4ohm for doorboards?

[biz77]

Originally Posted by Beisofmarko

I did contact them but i'm waiting for the reply.
They came with instructions but this is the only wiring diagram it has:


I assume my amp is stable at 2ohm's, it says:
2 x 330 W RMS @ 4 ohm
2 x 550 W RMS @ 2 ohm
2 x 852 W RMS @ 1 ohm

However i mentioned that i allready run front as 3-way active via pp82dsp
and was recommended ~300wrms amp @4ohm for doorboards?

If your amp is 1 ohm stable then just wire the three door woofers in parallel, which should give you a nominal 1.33 ohm load. See configuration as posted in post #2.

[Beisofmarko]

Originally Posted by biz77

If your amp is 1 ohm stable then just wire the three door woofers in parallel, which should give you a nominal 1.33 ohm load. See configuration as posted in post #2.

Yeah it says "it's stable @1ohm and can be used to run several speakers and difficult loads"

My only concern as i'm not experienced with these is that will it be
too much power for speakers then?
If they recommend ~2x 300wrms @4ohm for those doorboards?

That would be around 100wrms per speaker and with 1 ohm load
i would feed ~284wrms per speaker?

this is from their site:

POWER HANDLING NOMINAL/PEAK
2 x 300 / 500 Watt

RECOMMENDED AMPLIFIER POWER
ab 2x 200 – 300 Watt / 4 Ohm

Thanks!

[ctuna]

what is the amplifier?

That sounds like it might be sub amp which is not ideal
for mids and tweeters.

The first diagram shows series parallel two speakers in series
and the combined series pairs on one channel.

How well does bridging channels work with that amp would be my question.

[Beisofmarko]

Originally Posted by ctuna

what is the amplifier?

That sounds like it might be sub amp which is not ideal
for mids and tweeters.

The first diagram shows series parallel two speakers in series
and the combined series pairs on one channel.

How well does bridging channels work with that amp would be my question.

Amplifier is Audio System X-330.2 (recommended by jehnert)
- 2 x 330 W RMS @ 4 ohm
- 2 x 550 W RMS @ 2 ohm
- 2 x 852 W RMS @ 1 ohm
- 1 x 1100 W RMS @ 4 ohm
- 1 x 1650 W RMS @ 2 ohm

This amp will run 6x 6,5" doorboards alone, tweeters, 4" mids and underseats are ran by pp82dsp
and probably by helix p six dsp or v8 in the future.

So would the smartest and easiest way for me be to wire these like
in post #2 (@1.33ohm) and then adjust gain and measure so i won't feed too
much wattage to them?

[ctuna]

I would go with the 2ohm load just because I
would not be comfortable going lower.
2 x 550 W RMS @ 2 ohm which also give stereo.
But Jehnert should know best.
which means two sets of two speakers in series
and each set of two in series in parallel with each other.
Assumes you use the other 6.5 for an under seat.
That is still 125's watt per speaker.

They sell the doorboard's with two or 4 6.5 with the fourth
intended for the under seat position.

If it was me I would just run two 6.5's in each door and a
xe-200 for the underseat to get a little more midbass.

[Beisofmarko]

Originally Posted by ctuna

I would go with the 2ohm load just because I
would not be comfortable going lower.
2 x 550 W RMS @ 2 ohm which also give stereo.
But Jehnert should know best.
which means two sets of two speakers in series
and each set of two in series in parallel with each other.
Assumes you use the other 6.5 for an under seat.
That is still 125's watt per speaker.

They sell the doorboard's with two or 4 6.5 with the fourth
intended for the under seat position.

If it was me I would just run two 6.5's in each door and a
xe-200 for the underseat to get a little more midbass.

If i went with 2 ohm load with 4 speakers per side, would the wiring go
as in picture at post #4 ?
That would give around 137wrms per speaker therefore underseat XE-200
would get a nice upgrade aswell.

How would it work having one 8" midbass mixed with three 6,5's ?
Jehnert crossover giving the same play band for 8" and 6,5's ?


So at ~1.33ohm 3x 6,5's per side wired parallel or
at ~2ohm 4x 6,5's (1x 8") per side wired like in picture at post #4 ?

[ctuna]

"How would it work having one 8" midbass mixed with three 6,5's ?
Jehnert crossover giving the same play band for 8" and 6,5's ?"

I would assume if you did the above you would keep the underseats
on a seperate channel so you could still apply DSP eq to the underseats
separate from the doors.

I would also run this by Jehnert.


You should be able to figure out the impedence for yourself.
Series adds parallel divides(by the sum of the reciprocals). Two 4 ohm speakers in series = 8 ohms
two in parallel = 2 ohms.

The total value of a parallel circuit is the sum of the reciprocals.

https://www.swtc.edu/Ag_Power/electr...l_circuits.htm

The picture in post 4 is series parallel and it assumes that one of
the 6.5 is in the underseat location. At least I think that is what they
intended. When they ship that kit with 4 speakers I think they intend
one to go in the underseat position.

[Beisofmarko]

Originally Posted by ctuna

When they ship that kit with 4 speakers I think they intend
one to go in the underseat position.

That is correct, however i've had their flatline kit for few years allready
so they tailored a package for me with just the 6x 6,5's + crossovers + doorpanels.

Also i just noticed that the 8" XE-200 is 6 ohm speaker as the 6,5's are 4ohm,
would this mess things up if wiring together?

Originally Posted by ctuna

I would go with the 2ohm load just because I
would not be comfortable going lower.

Out of curiousity, why is that? or just personal preference?

I'm just thinking that if my amplifier is advertised as "stable at 1ohm stereo,
can be used to run multiple speakers and difficult loads",
it should work just fine?

With wiring doorboards 3x 6,5's (4 ohm) parallel, it would be 1.34 ohm load to amp
and it should be able to handle that just fine, right?
That way would be easiest way for me to wire doorboards.

If i wire them parallel as said above, i would feed each door maximum of 852wrms
which would be 284wrms per speaker that would be abit over the recommended.
But i could just measure with multimeter and play with gain to get the
wattage i feed them to around 300-400 wrms per Door.

Correct me if i'm missing something here.
Thanks!

[ctuna]

If you measure the coil on the XE-200 the resistance is
6.5 ohms (I have a set also great speakers) But the impedance
which is the speaker rating for audio is 4 ohms I believe.

Look at the specs on there website.

"With wiring doorboards 3x 6,5's (4 ohm) parallel, it would be 1.34 ohm load to amp
and it should be able to handle that just fine, right?
That way would be easiest way for me to wire doorboards."

If your amp says it can handle it you should be fine.
For xe-200's

Below 2 ohm loads make me nervous but it isn't based on science.

The other speakers are on separate channels coming of your 82dsp
so it isn't going to be much different with a the setup you have now.

All the channels have gain controls on the 82dsp and I assume your
other amp just start out a minimum gains and go thorugh the dsp
setup procedure as described by Helix or

DSP

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1384218
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1383653
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1381697

Also the Jehnert guys suggested this is correct.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...hlrW-jM2Ru2kAu

says 4 ohm in the above document.

[Beisofmarko]

Originally Posted by ctuna

The other speakers are on separate channels coming of your 82dsp
so it isn't going to be much different with a the setup you have now.

I assume by this you mean that they are still powered by pp82dsp ~55 watts, right?
Well my plan was to upgrade pp82dsp with helix p six dsp or v8 in the future but will see..

Originally Posted by ctuna

Also the Jehnert guys suggested this is correct.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...hlrW-jM2Ru2kAu

says 4 ohm in the above document.

Thanks for looking up, only technical data i found was from their store and it said 6 ohm at the XE-200.


Now i'm having hard time deciding what would be smartest way to go;
1) 3x 6.5's parallel @ 1 ohm ( rest of the speakers through pp82dsp)
2) 3x 6.5's + 8" underseat series/parallel @ 4 ohm (picture at post #4)
3) some other way @ 2 ohm amplifier load perhaps?

With option 2, the one provided with instructions. I would get ~82,5 watts
per speaker, is that too little? still more than 55 watts from pp82dsp to underseats.
- Also with this wiring since 3x 6,5's and 8" underseat would be played through jehnert
3-way frequency crossover. That would mean 8" plays between same crossover points
as 6,5's. Is that okay as 8" is rated 42-4000hz and 6.5's 49-5000hz.

Thanks!

[ctuna]

No matter how you hook it up you will go deaf with
that much power and speaker area.
Plenty of power for everything no matter how you hook
it up with the suggested setups.

If you have an 82dsp and you are going active why would
use a passive crossover at all?
you have 8 channels right . And some of the Helix's have
extra DSP channels to feed another amp or subs.
I could see maybe using the tweeter to 4 inch door crossover
for those two components .
But you would just DSP eq the rest.

2 channels to tweeter
2 channels to front door 4 inch
or 2 channels to tweeter/4 inch pair with the two way
crossover they provided for the doors.
2 or 4 channels to door boards and underseats
depending on what you want to do.
No passive crossovers.
Which is a better way to go for control of eq and delay.

[Beisofmarko]

Originally Posted by ctuna

No matter how you hook it up you will go deaf with
that much power and speaker area.
Plenty of power for everything no matter how you hook
it up with the suggested setups.

If you have an 82dsp and you are going active why would
use a passive crossover at all?
you have 8 channels right . And some of the Helix's have
extra DSP channels to feed another amp or subs.
I could see maybe using the tweeter to 4 inch door crossover
for those two components .
But you would just DSP eq the rest.

2 channels to tweeter
2 channels to front door 4 inch
or 2 channels to tweeter/4 inch pair with the two way
crossover they provided for the doors.
2 or 4 channels to door boards and underseats
depending on what you want to do.
No passive crossovers.
Which is a better way to go for control of eq and delay.

I guess you are right about the power.
I'm not sure why i didn't even think about leaving passive crossover out,
i thought i would need more channels if i went without but i dont
if i still wire the doors series/parallel like suggested in the instructions.


So i'm thinking it would go something like this then per side without passive crossovers, correct?
- 55watts at 4 ohm load to tweeter / 4 inch
- 87,5watts at 4 ohm load to doorpanels + underseats
- everything run through dsp

[ctuna]

Yep and that still gives you one set of channels.
(out of your 82dsp)
The alternative would be to run the underseat's off
that channel set.

[Beisofmarko]

Everything is pretty much installed now and after talking with
technicians at Jehnert, i ended up wiring doorpanels parallel
@ 1 ohm amplifier load as they highly recommended this way
with the components i have.

I'll give better review after i have done some dsp fine tuning,
but i can agree with people who said that you don't really
need a subwoofer with these!

Anyway this install came with one problem.
After trying some songs i got low battery charge warning light.
I measured 11,82 Volts. I hooked car to booster and left it to charge overnight,
at morning i took it off and measured 12,71 Volts from the battery.
When i came back from the work (~10 hours later) i measured 12.42 Volts.
Then i noticed that amplifiers had green light on even without the key in the keyfob.

I understand that if you have remote turn on from wrong place they would
be getting power all the time, but doesn't the technic harness take rem from headunit?
And therefore they should power up only when i put key to keyfob (radio turns on)?
- I noticed that if have car locked and in sleepmode, whenever i open any door
and it wakes up (can hear fuel pump priming and so on), the amplifiers turns on.
Is this normal? even without radio powering up (Idrive screen black).
If this is the case then it must have been draining during install because
i've been opening and closing trunk and doors all the time..

I did a drawing of my current wiring diagram, if there is something off let me know.
Also to add:
- PP82dsp power cable is connected to positive lead in the IBS ontop of battery.
- Audio System X-330.2 power cable is connected to straight to positive lead of battery.
- Both ground cables are connected to chassis (paint free) the X-330.2's cable
only being 65cm long instead of recommended less than 50cm at manual.
- Remote wire between amps are just some random 1mm2 / 17awg wire.


Thanks in advance!

[ctuna]

The turn on process in these cars is complex.
As soon as you unlock it the car wakes up and starts
preparing for use.
Additional things that can keep it awake are open doors
or a keyfob in close proximaty.
Since the car uses the stereo for alarms even when the
idrive screen is off the amps are on.
Basicly its never really off till the car goes to sleep.

The Technic Harness with the Relay turns off the amps along
with the car going to sleep. If you did not get that one then
I think the amp uses signal sensing ?
The car does not usually go to sleep for some time after
you exit it goes to sleep faster if you lock it.
There are things that can keep it awake longer like a paired
cell phone in the vicinity of the car.


"- I noticed that if have car locked and in sleepmode, whenever i open any door
and it wakes up (can hear fuel pump priming and so on), the amplifiers turns on.
Is this normal? even without radio powering up (Idrive screen black).
If this is the case then it must have been draining during install because
i've been opening and closing trunk and doors all the time.."

Yes if you are working on the car and not disconnecting the battery its
typical to drain it some and topping it off it the right thing to do.

Read the first PDF on the IBS system
to understand sleep mode conditions.

electical e90 pdf
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.cGU&cad=rja
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...85464276,d.cGU
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...85464276,d.cGU

If you lock the car you should be able to see the amp lights go off within
a couple of minutes.

That must be amazing sound enjoy it.
And go easy on yours ears they have to last you a lifetime.