E90Post
 


Studio RSR
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > DIY Guides > DIY: Shredded / Broken Serpentine Belt Repair/Inspect Procedure - E90, E9X 335i N54



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-12-2019, 09:55 PM   #23
mr_malvo
Private
47
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

I think you will be able to properly clean the system if you remove all parts as stated above. Once you get to the oil pickup tube you will be able to tell if it was sucking belt material.

Reading your situation seems like you will have to do the whole thing and remove the valve cover as well to do a good inspection up in there.

In my case it was several days of work between the pan, the valve cover, the front seal, plus cleaning everything and putting it all back together. Thinking back at all the work I had to do, $2-3K sounds reasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by klargo View Post
My used 2013 X5 has 58k so I wasnt concerned about drive belts quite yet. I was returning home from a long trip when I threw belt. Not knowing off this issue I took my chance and drove it home. When I went to replace belt I found it shredded and pieces stuck behind harmonic b that I couldnt easily get out. After remving HB I had pieces of belt wrapped around crank and sticking out of oil seal. The seal is completly gone and even have a few small gouges in metal. I'm older and not looking FWD to the DIY work involved so I called dealer service dept who are familair with this issue. They quoted a price of (approx) $3500 to complete inspection and work needed. I told them I was considering doing myself and was told I would not be able to complete all neccesary steps such as flushing system and risking further issues. I just wanted opinions as to what others think about this. I will do the work myself to save 2-3k but wanted to make sure procedure on this site is thorough enough. The suspected cause of belt failing is oil cooler housing leaking oil on belt. Also thanks so much to those sharing info I just wish I would have found it earlier!
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2019, 04:31 AM   #24
klargo
New Member
2
Rep
16
Posts

Drives: 2013 X5 35i
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for reply and thanks again for gathering all the great info in one easy to read thread. I currently plan to do the job myself even though the oil pan r&r worries me a little especially since i'll be attempting the work in my driveway. Theres a pretty good youtube of a guy showing how he did it on an 09 X5 but he had to remove most of front suspension and the undercarraige just to access the diff and oil pan. I figure my 2013 shouldn't be much different. He had a lift which would make it easier but still a lot of work. He said none of the work was technically difficult just very time consuming. I already ordered some of the parts and the seal tool (approx $800 so far) so I'm committed now. I have a Snap-On boroscope that might come in handy. If I find anything not already covered I'll post. Thanks much!
Appreciate 0
      05-16-2019, 04:27 PM   #25
klargo
New Member
2
Rep
16
Posts

Drives: 2013 X5 35i
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Mr Malvo, I finally got a chance to tear into my X5 N55 with shredded belt issue. Once again your post saved me from losing an engine (hopefully not too late). Today I got to the oil pickup but in my 2013 X5 its part of a deflector assembly with many aluminum screws that have to be replaced if removed. I was able to use a shop vac, brake cleaner, and comp air to clean it without removing. It was packed with shredded belt and oil pan had a lot in it too so my eng would not have lasted long if I had drove it like that. Now I in the reassembly process. My front seal looks like it's completly gone but I can't tell if theres a metal collar remaining. From your pics it looks like an open space all around the shaft and flange. The 1st 1/4 inch of my seal recess is open but then looks like a step I cant tell if block is machined that way or part of old seal. I'm going to try and take a pic. Thanks for the post again and getting all info together.
Appreciate 0
      05-16-2019, 10:04 PM   #26
klargo
New Member
2
Rep
16
Posts

Drives: 2013 X5 35i
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

shredded serp belt

I was able to get remaining front main oil seal out using the puller tool that has 6 screws and lots of patience because I had to make many attempts before the seal finally gave up. The only part left after serp belt shredding incident was the metal ring so it was hard to grab using the screws. I had so much serp belt remnants in the pan and oil pickup it makes me wonder if this was the first incident. I pulled what seemed like an entire belt just from pan and oil pickup alone not to mention what was in the timing chain, wrapped around HB pully and the pieces all over engine bay and bottom trays.
What a mess! I have approx 20 hours tied up so far and about $1000 in tools and parts. I bought the eng support bar from Harbor Freight instead of using a jack from underneath since I had to remove eng support to access front diff and oil pan. I used the car's towing hook as a lift point it mounts right by the oil filter housing and directions on YouTube for R&R valve cover and oil pan (2013 X5). If I keep the car I'll be changing belt and oil cooler/filter gaskets every 30k to prevent this ever happening again!
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2019, 04:59 PM   #27
mr_malvo
Private
47
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

Glad to know you've gotten over the hill and got the job done. Thanks for the feedback and pointers specially since you have an X5. I wasn't aware this was happening in other models with N54s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by klargo View Post
I was able to get remaining front main oil seal out using the puller tool that has 6 screws and lots of patience because I had to make many attempts before the seal finally gave up. The only part left after serp belt shredding incident was the metal ring so it was hard to grab using the screws. I had so much serp belt remnants in the pan and oil pickup it makes me wonder if this was the first incident. I pulled what seemed like an entire belt just from pan and oil pickup alone not to mention what was in the timing chain, wrapped around HB pully and the pieces all over engine bay and bottom trays.
What a mess! I have approx 20 hours tied up so far and about $1000 in tools and parts. I bought the eng support bar from Harbor Freight instead of using a jack from underneath since I had to remove eng support to access front diff and oil pan. I used the car's towing hook as a lift point it mounts right by the oil filter housing and directions on YouTube for R&R valve cover and oil pan (2013 X5). If I keep the car I'll be changing belt and oil cooler/filter gaskets every 30k to prevent this ever happening again!
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2019, 10:11 PM   #28
chris417
Registered
0
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW 335i
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

How does mine look like?

My belt snapped 10 seconds after turning the car on , turned it off immediately after hearing the belt flapping around, what do you guys think, am i good to install a new belt? or does the seal look compromised
Attached Images
  

Last edited by chris417; 06-20-2019 at 10:51 PM..
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2019, 10:33 PM   #29
klargo
New Member
2
Rep
16
Posts

Drives: 2013 X5 35i
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

The BMW service dept still managed to get deep in my pocket. I took the car in for airbag recall and they said they found the rh axle outer boot torn and recommended replacement right away due to grease being slung all over. I imagined I "tore" the boot during the rebuild process. At this point I was tired of messing with it so I paid BMW the $900 just to get it done. They said it was a 5 hour job but I knew that I can take the entire front suspension apart in that amount of time (just did it) but I paid anyway. I asked to see my old boot when I picked up the car and what I imagined to be a huge tear was actually a very small hole that couldn't be seen had the mech not circled with a sharpie. I could have fixed it with RTV or glue! I'll avoid ever taking the car to dealership again thats for sure! Also when I was in there talking to service rep he said they get cars in there all the time with the serp belt shred issue, some needing entire engines changed at a cost of 15k or more. I don't know how many BMW models this affects but mine is one (E70 X5 with N55 engine). During my research after this happened to me I noticed lots of people talk about oil leaks after shredded serp belts but they just end up replacing the oil seal and belt. I wonder how many BMWs engines are suffering loss of oil pressure and soon to fail because people arn't aware of serp belt in the oil pan and pickup.
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2019, 10:51 PM   #30
klargo
New Member
2
Rep
16
Posts

Drives: 2013 X5 35i
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Chris417 I can't see the pics very well but do you see any evidence of serp belt entering the seal? It looks like the rubber part of your seal is still intact mine was completely gone in other words I had a 1/8 inch air gap all around the crank flange and engine case where the rubber seal normally is and I also had a piece of serp belt stuck between crank flange and oil seal. If your car only ran 10 sec after shredding I think prob ok. I was a dumb-a## and drove for approx 1 mile to get home (big mistake). My serp belt was completely shredded and compromised seal was obvious. To me it looks like you are OK.
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2019, 11:00 PM   #31
chris417
Registered
0
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW 335i
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Klargo, there was just a small piece wedged in there that i pulled off, the car ran a good 10 sec with the broken belt because i didn't turn it off until i heard the belt flapping around, i also carefully ran a small pick/hook around the edge and it didn't seem to get caught on anything so i'm guessing i'm good but want other opinions just to be safe, here is what i got out
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2019, 11:15 PM   #32
klargo
New Member
2
Rep
16
Posts

Drives: 2013 X5 35i
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Yea your belt looks exactly like what I had. If you actually had a piece of belt stuck in your seal you might want to investigate some more. The only reason I started digging deeper was because I ran across this blog after searching how/why serp belt destroyed my oil seal and had a piece stuck in there. When I took off my valve cover the serp belt pieces was in timing chain so I drained oil and pieces of belt came out of pan. I then had to take off oil pan (not easy on X5 35i all wheel drive) and had a "rats nest" of serp belt in the pan and and it was completely clogging up the oil pickup. All this happened in less than a mile drive. Its up to you but if you actually pulled some of belt out from the engine oil seal then I would at least check timing chain area. Just follow steps provided by Mr. Malvo. Sorry I feel your pain!
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2019, 11:21 PM   #33
klargo
New Member
2
Rep
16
Posts

Drives: 2013 X5 35i
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

I guess in a way I was lucky because my oil seal damage was so obvious with all the rubber gone. If you have access to a boroscope maybe you could drain oil and inspect the oil pan without removing it.
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2019, 11:44 PM   #34
chris417
Registered
0
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW 335i
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by klargo View Post
I guess in a way I was lucky because my oil seal damage was so obvious with all the rubber gone. If you have access to a boroscope maybe you could drain oil and inspect the oil pan without removing it.
Yea I guess I'll check the oil pan, but even if it did get in, it probably didn't get far because it ran for so little, I'll start with the oil, I'm going to drain it and strain and if nothing is found I should be good
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2019, 01:08 PM   #35
gjm120
Colonel
2180
Rep
2,804
Posts

Drives: 2013 128i, 2021 230i
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: East Texas

iTrader: (1)

Just found this possible preventative for ingesting belts.

https://www.oxwerkzperformance.com/products.html

Any opinions or experience?
__________________
E82 / BMWP Springs / Koni Yellows / M front control arms / Adjustable front endlinks / M rear guide rods / Whiteline Poly RSFB
Appreciate 1
AndyW648.00
      06-23-2019, 09:27 AM   #36
addictedtoboost
Second Lieutenant
110
Rep
257
Posts

Drives: 2008 335xi E92
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Chicago IL

iTrader: (1)

I went to the drag strip yesterday and did 4 passes down the strip, three of them were good.. the fourth one well... didn't play out so good when I crossed the finish line I realalized by power steering wouldn't work I was like oh shit i hope the belt didn't snap. When I was able to get my car parked off the track and popped the hood.. what do I see? I broken belt and well a small amount of oil leaking from the rear main seal I just hope the belt didn't get sucked into the motor. Once I shut my motor off i DID NOT restart it as that's a horrible idea. I literally just had my serptatine belt and rollers/pulleys replaced earlier this week. I was trying to prevent something like this from happening but just my luck.. I ended up having the car towed from Great Lakes Dragway, Union Grove WI back to Chicago. Anybody have any helpful suggestions or any insight of motor being toast?
Appreciate 0
      06-23-2019, 10:56 AM   #37
arkie6
Lieutenant
United_States
397
Rep
433
Posts

Drives: 2008 BMW 335i sedan
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Russellville, AR

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [0.00]
Oil leak from your rear main seal or front main seal? If it was the rear main seal leaking, that wouldn't have anything to do with the belt. Was your belt just broken or was it shredded? Have you checked your power steering pulley for cracks/breaks? What is the condition of your engine mounts?
Appreciate 0
      06-23-2019, 04:17 PM   #38
addictedtoboost
Second Lieutenant
110
Rep
257
Posts

Drives: 2008 335xi E92
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Chicago IL

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkie6 View Post
Oil leak from your rear main seal or front main seal? If it was the rear main seal leaking, that wouldn't have anything to do with the belt. Was your belt just broken or was it shredded? Have you checked your power steering pulley for cracks/breaks? What is the condition of your engine mounts?
I ment to say front main seal not the real i mistyped. I just had my motor mounts replaced last week along with the serpatine belt, pulleys and rollers. I didn't get a chance to take a look at the power steering pulley at all.
Appreciate 0
      06-23-2019, 07:23 PM   #39
mr_malvo
Private
47
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

Never seen this before - looks interesting. Seems like it could help however, not sure how much. The seal is already behind the pulley. I also seems that installation requires removing block joint bolts - not a fan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Just found this possible preventative for ingesting belts.

https://www.oxwerkzperformance.com/products.html

Any opinions or experience?
Appreciate 1
gjm1202180.00
      06-23-2019, 07:27 PM   #40
mr_malvo
Private
47
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by addictedtoboost View Post
I ment to say front main seal not the real i mistyped. I just had my motor mounts replaced last week along with the serpatine belt, pulleys and rollers. I didn't get a chance to take a look at the power steering pulley at all.

If your front main seal is leaking might as well take the pulley out and inspect for damage. If your seal is compromised and you don't want to start removing things, try what someone said above and get an inexpensive boroscope online and sneak it in there to see if you have pieces of belt.
Appreciate 0
      06-23-2019, 07:36 PM   #41
mr_malvo
Private
47
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris417 View Post
My belt snapped 10 seconds after turning the car on , turned it off immediately after hearing the belt flapping around, what do you guys think, am i good to install a new belt? or does the seal look compromised

Your seal does not look intact to me. And if you had a piece of belt hanging from that area damage was likely. Even if no belt made into your engine, the seal looks like it needs replacement. You can diagnose it by looking for oil leaks.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2019, 03:59 PM   #42
MyNameIsNotSure
Private First Class
47
Rep
158
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Ventura, CA

iTrader: (0)

Wow can't believe how common this is. Just happened to me too. On the verge of ditching the car even though it's in lovely shape otherwise, freakin heartbreaking but got quoted $3k at a couple spots and not sure if I can do it myself..

My main question is that even if this all gets done and the pieces of belt get cleaned out of the timing chain--what's not to say there are still tiny pieces of belt circulating throughout the engine that got distributed all over by the oil? And those pieces could eventually build up and lead to a clog/engine failure? After reading up on the issue apparently there have been some folks that have needed a new engine down the line even after cleaning out the timing chain/pickup tube. Just wondering if it's even worth doing this job or if I might have to just sell it if there's just gonna be engine failure down the line.
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2020, 09:29 PM   #43
golfbrah
Enlisted Member
21
Rep
41
Posts

Drives: tbd
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: midwest

iTrader: (0)

My belt got sucked into the engine. I pulled belt pieces out of the upper valve area and I will remove the crankshaft pulley tomorrow. Engine is tough to crank by hand (ratchet + pipe) but it spins. Car won't start at the moment so...might be dead? I have a bad timing code too.
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2020, 12:28 AM   #44
mr_malvo
Private
47
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to hear that. It does sounds like you might have significant amounts of belt pieces stuck in your timing chain. Valve cover and oil pan would need to come out for proper cleanup. Crank shaft pulley alone won't do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfbrah View Post
My belt got sucked into the engine. I pulled belt pieces out of the upper valve area and I will remove the crankshaft pulley tomorrow. Engine is tough to crank by hand (ratchet + pipe) but it spins. Car won't start at the moment so...might be dead? I have a bad timing code too.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
crankshaft seal, diy, n54, serpentine belt, shredded belt

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST