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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > M3 Control Arms Front & Rear



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      12-03-2017, 09:21 PM   #23
Rob09msport
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I should be trying to find a place that has alignment rack? Or as long as installed right any decent alignment tech can adjust the new adjustable parts? Thanks for all the help.
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      12-03-2017, 10:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Rob09msport View Post
I should be trying to find a place that has alignment rack? Or as long as installed right any decent alignment tech can adjust the new adjustable parts? Thanks for all the help.
Yes, the car will absolutely need a 4-wheel alignment after you do a suspension project. Plan on paying about $90-100.00
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      12-04-2017, 01:34 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by mweisdorfer View Post
what is white sfb?

White line sub frame bushings similar to the akg or Delrin
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      12-04-2017, 01:36 PM   #26
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Do you know of a bushing kit that doesn't include the sub frame bushings I just did with the white line kit?
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      12-04-2017, 01:46 PM   #27
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Do you know of a bushing kit that doesn't include the sub frame bushings I just did with the white line kit?
I would not use the white line bushing kit unless you are tracking the car. They are far too stiff for the Daily Driver. Ask the folks at ECS tuning and or FCP Euro. They both make kits that do not have the subframe bushings included. They both would also tell you to never go above and beyond m3 bushings, if you are a DD.

Although, I don't know why you wouldn't do the subframe bushings, especially if you are over 100,000 miles.
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      12-04-2017, 03:32 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mweisdorfer View Post
I would not use the white line bushing kit unless you are tracking the car. They are far too stiff for the Daily Driver. Ask the folks at ECS tuning and or FCP Euro. They both make kits that do not have the subframe bushings included. They both would also tell you to never go above and beyond m3 bushings, if you are a DD.

Although, I don't know why you wouldn't do the subframe bushings, especially if you are over 100,000 miles.
For subframe bushings on these cars, going solid on a DD is perfectly fine. I recently had AKG Motorsport red subframe bushings installed on my car and a diff lockdown brace at the same time. I notice a slight kick from some low speed gear changes, sometimes, but no other difference. And that's probably more from the diff brace anyway.
Passengers don't seem to notice a difference either.

The F series M cars don't even have subframe bushings, the subframes are just bolted to the chassis.

The super soft stock bushings are only necessary due to runflat tyres IMO...
My car with stock bushings and runflats rode much worse than my car now with PS4s and the current setup.
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      12-04-2017, 04:28 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by maddmatth View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mweisdorfer View Post
I would not use the white line bushing kit unless you are tracking the car. They are far too stiff for the Daily Driver. Ask the folks at ECS tuning and or FCP Euro. They both make kits that do not have the subframe bushings included. They both would also tell you to never go above and beyond m3 bushings, if you are a DD.

Although, I don't know why you wouldn't do the subframe bushings, especially if you are over 100,000 miles.
For subframe bushings on these cars, going solid on a DD is perfectly fine. I recently had AKG Motorsport red subframe bushings installed on my car and a diff lockdown brace at the same time. I notice a slight kick from some low speed gear changes, sometimes, but no other difference. And that's probably more from the diff brace anyway.
Passengers don't seem to notice a difference either.

The F series M cars don't even have subframe bushings, the subframes are just bolted to the chassis.

The super soft stock bushings are only necessary due to runflat tyres IMO...
My car with stock bushings and runflats rode much worse than my car now with PS4s and the current setup.
I have M3 subframe bushings and M3 differential bushings. Major improvement over stock. I went with these vs a poly bushing set on the recommendation of both ECS tuning and FCP Euro. They could have sold me the more expensive poly bushing. I was sort of interested in them, at the time I was looking to replace the bushings in the subframe.

If you stop the think about it, the M3 has the exact subframe & diff bushings I have, and it is "legendary" on the Nuremberg test track. While I understand that the M3 has a few suspension parts I don't have, the fact that a have a couple is good enough for me. Point being, the e90 m3 doesn't use poly bushings at all. The m3 is a car that is meant to be a DD but one that could be tracked on occasion.
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      12-04-2017, 07:05 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mweisdorfer View Post
If you stop the think about it, the M3 has the exact subframe & diff bushings I have, and it is "legendary" on the Nuremberg test track. While I understand that the M3 has a few suspension parts I don't have, the fact that a have a couple is good enough for me. Point being, the e90 m3 doesn't use poly bushings at all. The m3 is a car that is meant to be a DD but one that could be tracked on occasion.
The F series M cars skipped subframe bushings completely and bolt it right to the chassis.
Yes the E9x M3 bushings are probably as stiff as you'll ever need, but my point is poly bushings are not "too stiff"

Some people have gone for solid aluminium and report it feels fine too. Although due to cost and installation difficulty I'd advise against those as I don't think there's a significant benefit.
M3, poly, or inserts, for most of us I'd say any of those options work well. The extra stiffness and durability of solid poly bushings might provide a slight benefit for tracking and long term wear.

Honestly I think to reach or exceed M3 suspension doesn't actually require all the parts. Shocks/springs, subframe bushings, a diff brace and you're set.
The next worthwhile handling mod from there is probably an LSD.

Yes that right, I didn't include control arms I know not everyone will agree there.

Last edited by maddmatth; 12-04-2017 at 07:14 PM.
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      12-05-2017, 01:23 AM   #31
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seems like the current price ECS has a better deal with the trailing arms
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      12-05-2017, 12:10 PM   #32
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Diff lockdown brace? any link for part?
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      12-05-2017, 04:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mweisdorfer View Post
I would not use the white line bushing kit unless you are tracking the car. They are far too stiff for the Daily Driver. Ask the folks at ECS tuning and or FCP Euro. They both make kits that do not have the subframe bushings included. They both would also tell you to never go above and beyond m3 bushings, if you are a DD.

Although, I don't know why you wouldn't do the subframe bushings, especially if you are over 100,000 miles.
I already have poly bushings in the subframe and they feel great no nvh and I am extremely sensitive I have nvh ocd lol
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      12-05-2017, 05:25 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraMarty View Post
Diff lockdown brace? any link for part?
PM a user named vwetish on N54tech for one that you won't find for sale on any store.
I got mine from him. Nice single piece of metal with no welds, and cheap.

There are others around including some fancy ones with a bushing. IMO the simple metal brace is perfectly fine for most of us.

Only difference to NVH that I can tell is that I do get a harsher kick from the transmission sometimes, mainly the downshift from 2nd to first when slowing down or the 1-2 shift when accelerating briskly. I have a DCT and these do tend to give you a kick sometimes, so this may not be noticeable for regular auto transmissions.
I do imagine manual drivers will also feel it a little more when their shifts aren't smooth.
But it's not bad at all and the part is easily removed if it ends up bothering you. I'm just very attentive to these little details so I'm describing the difference as best I can
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      12-05-2017, 07:08 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by CobraMarty View Post
Diff lockdown brace? any link for part?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=806041

https://www.x-ph.com/defiv-fabricati...-lockdown-kit/

I'd put an LSD differential in before I did this considering the price.
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      12-05-2017, 08:42 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mweisdorfer View Post
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=806041

https://www.x-ph.com/defiv-fabricati...-lockdown-kit/

I'd put an LSD differential in before I did this considering the price.
Err you're looking at the most overpriced and over-complex option around. You don't need those fancy braces with a bushing. The simple brace I have was $162 including shipping to New Zealand.

There is this one too:
https://***********ions.com/products...e-for-e9x-335i (link censored? Oh well, you'll come across it if you google)
But I don't like it as much because welds mean it could break rather than bend. And it's more expensive. But still a good option if you can't get one from vwetish.
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      12-06-2017, 08:37 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddmatth View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mweisdorfer View Post
If you stop the think about it, the M3 has the exact subframe & diff bushings I have, and it is "legendary" on the Nuremberg test track. While I understand that the M3 has a few suspension parts I don't have, the fact that a have a couple is good enough for me. Point being, the e90 m3 doesn't use poly bushings at all. The m3 is a car that is meant to be a DD but one that could be tracked on occasion.
The F series M cars skipped subframe bushings completely and bolt it right to the chassis.
Yes the E9x M3 bushings are probably as stiff as you'll ever need, but my point is poly bushings are not "too stiff"

Some people have gone for solid aluminium and report it feels fine too. Although due to cost and installation difficulty I'd advise against those as I don't think there's a significant benefit.
M3, poly, or inserts, for most of us I'd say any of those options work well. The extra stiffness and durability of solid poly bushings might provide a slight benefit for tracking and long term wear.

Honestly I think to reach or exceed M3 suspension doesn't actually require all the parts. Shocks/springs, subframe bushings, a diff brace and you're set.
The next worthwhile handling mod from there is probably an LSD.

Yes that right, I didn't include control arms I know not everyone will agree there.
What about sway bars ?
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      12-09-2017, 12:04 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian2485 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddmatth View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mweisdorfer View Post
If you stop the think about it, the M3 has the exact subframe & diff bushings I have, and it is "legendary" on the Nuremberg test track. While I understand that the M3 has a few suspension parts I don't have, the fact that a have a couple is good enough for me. Point being, the e90 m3 doesn't use poly bushings at all. The m3 is a car that is meant to be a DD but one that could be tracked on occasion.
The F series M cars skipped subframe bushings completely and bolt it right to the chassis.
Yes the E9x M3 bushings are probably as stiff as you'll ever need, but my point is poly bushings are not "too stiff"

Some people have gone for solid aluminium and report it feels fine too. Although due to cost and installation difficulty I'd advise against those as I don't think there's a significant benefit.
M3, poly, or inserts, for most of us I'd say any of those options work well. The extra stiffness and durability of solid poly bushings might provide a slight benefit for tracking and long term wear.

Honestly I think to reach or exceed M3 suspension doesn't actually require all the parts. Shocks/springs, subframe bushings, a diff brace and you're set.
The next worthwhile handling mod from there is probably an LSD.

Yes that right, I didn't include control arms I know not everyone will agree there.
What about sway bars ?
What about them?

You can upgrade to M3 swaybars or look at Eibach swaybars for about $100.00-$200.00 cheaper. I have seen the set for $277.50 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Eibach-2085-3.../dp/B000Q0S0AG

If you are a DD only, that might be of my last upgrades, when I get around to it. If you are tracking the car, it might move up the priority list.
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