Interesting S4 vs 335 vs FPV article.

TreDirtyFive · 09-05-2009, 05:06 PM

Interesting read...Thoughts?

darkphantom · 09-05-2009, 05:09 PM

I'll take these figures with a grain of salt IMHO....seriously, 5.6 secs 0-60 for our cars?

our car weighs 200kgs less than the audi yet it is much slower...

335xiR · 09-05-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkphantom

I'll take these figures with a grain of salt IMHO....seriously, 5.6 secs 0-60 for our cars?

our car weighs 200kgs less than the audi yet it is much slower...

even that, look at the 60-100 mph times, BMW still behind . . . which interests me and yet the Ford is fastest . . .

cstavaru · 09-05-2009, 05:22 PM

Put the BMW Performance Power Kit and BMW Performance Exhaust on the 335i, get the manual gearbox instead of the steptronic and then you will have a different winner. Not counting the BMW Performance Suspension and Brakes...

PS: 5.6 0-60 on the BMW is a joke, right ?

deletedelete · 09-05-2009, 05:35 PM

That article is depressing. Hopefully some of that stuff is incorrect. No ford, except a gt, should do anything better then my bmw.

335xiR · 09-05-2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstavaru

Put the BMW Performance Power Kit and BMW Performance Exhaust on the 335i, get the manual gearbox instead of the steptronic and then you will have a different winner. Not counting the BMW Performance Suspension and Brakes...

PS: 5.6 0-60 on the BMW is a joke, right ?

They all have auto . . . its like saying put a pulley on the supercharger of the S4 and you will have a different winner. A more fair race would have been a 335xi instead of RWD i

Sparky66 · 09-05-2009, 06:46 PM

This being an Australian magazine review will generally always hand the upper hand to local muscle. That being said, the Ford Falcon FPV F6 is probably the greatest performance car ever developed on our shores.

If any car was to serve the BMW 335 its arse, it would definitely be the Falcon. It shares similar traits to the BMW. Its Inline 6 is well renowned for its standard bullet proof internals.........that and the fact that they have a hefty single turbo arrangement lends itself favourably to upgraded tunes which push these cars output to over 500whp and around 700nm Torque

Falcons also use the ZF Steptronic gearboxes like the BMW's, so more needs to be investigated on this front.
It's becoming very common locally here to see these cars modified pushing 3.6 sec. 0-62mph and mid 11 sec. quarter mile runs.

So I'm not surprised one bit with this article.
As for the Audi..............it's just playing catchup to the very successful 335. More evolution than revolution, since time will always improve on an older product.

cstavaru · 09-05-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335xiR

They all have auto . . . its like saying put a pulley on the supercharger of the S4 and you will have a different winner. A more fair race would have been a 335xi instead of RWD i

No, the S4 has DSG (dual-clutch) but the 335i has the conventional torque-converter automatic. Its not fair. But since the 335 sedan does not have DCT (the coupe has it), the closest match is the manual transmission.

The 335xi would be slower than the i.

ss134 · 09-05-2009, 07:47 PM

Unfortunately it looks like the S4 has our cars beaten fair and square. Ive read 6 or 7 comparison tests S4 v 335i with 6MT and the xi, tests done in the UK and Germany and the S4 has won all of them. Its taken a brand new car that costs more to do it but it has. Theres also tuning options for the Audi that take it to over 400bhp. The kerb weight for the 335i in this test is wrong, our cars weigh in around 1600kg and more if you have certain options.
The 335 is a great car and fast but there are always faster cars out there....and the S4 is faster. My friend has a tuned Ford Focus ST with a few other mods and it is as fast my 335i-which is slightly depressing as it costs half as much including the mods!
On the positive side - i prefer the looks of the 335, the fuel economy is far superior, i like the heavier steering feel and with a decent tune its as fast or faster than the S4 for less cash.

deletedelete · 09-05-2009, 08:10 PM

I thought the zf steptronic trans was limited to bmw. How did ford get it? And of course the s4 is gonna be faster. Its years newer. They had lots of time to look at the 3 and make something faster. Just like when the new 3 comes out it will be better. Thats the cycle.

The ford being in a comparison with a bmw is scary. I assume the falcon is a euro model cause I have never heard of it. Its certainly not in america.

TreDirtyFive · 09-05-2009, 08:35 PM

It is an Australian article and the Falcon is a very popular Sports car in Aussie Land. They definitely do favor the muscle variety there. And those Falcon's are faaast. But let's be fair, the N54, in its current variant at 300hp, is over 3 years old now and is still being compared to newer faster cars. That is a testament to the powerplant that BMW has built. Things will only get better...as BMW's current M3 was their response to Audi's RS4 and they licked Audi handily...although I still find the bulky and wide RS4 a definite looker.

All these tests are relative. Everyone saying that the 5.6sec 0-60 is ridiculously incorrect should realize that if they hit sub 4s with the 335 then the other cars would also be faster as well. An American magazine would probably have the Audi hitting a 4.8 while the Falcon hitting 4.9 and the 335 a 5 flat or something.

Whatever the case, I applaud Audi if theyve finally made something interesting to talk about. I have a heavily modded A3 and it took a lot to make it fun to drive. The 335 was fun right out of the box for me. Take it for what it's worth. Give it a bit, I'm sure BMW has something up its sleeves.

Sniz · 09-05-2009, 09:13 PM

that Ford is sweet and the new S4 is a looker for sure.

WOPALX · 09-06-2009, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreDirtyFive

It is an Australian article and the Falcon is a very popular Sports car in Aussie Land.

99% of taxi's over here are fords.

ihyln · 09-06-2009, 12:33 AM

What a crappy article... AWD vs RWD? I didn't need to read an article to tell me the outcome. Next thing you know they will tell us water is wet.

Also, that Ford is hideous.

M3_WC · 09-06-2009, 01:03 AM

S4 is looking good, for sure.

Audi modding community will do that car right.

cstavaru · 09-06-2009, 05:20 AM

Anyway, this is not a fair comparison by any means. The BMW is 42.300EUR and the S4 is 51.400 in Europe. This leaves 9100 EUR for improvements on the BMW (or $6000 difference in North America) I think I can safely say that for this price you can equip the BMW with (OEM) BMW Performance Power Kit, exhaust, suspension system and braking system.

Now that would be a fair comparison to me (and I read such a comparison is being done by one of the German magazines this autumn). You can't compare with a car which is 9.000 (or $6000 in the US) cheaper.

enrita · 09-06-2009, 05:44 AM

There is no performance bmw braking system for the 335 last time i checked. Has that been released lately?

ss134 · 09-06-2009, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstavaru

Anyway, this is not a fair comparison by any means. The BMW is 42.300EUR and the S4 is 51.400 in Europe. This leaves 9100 EUR for improvements on the BMW (or $6000 difference in North America) I think I can safely say that for this price you can equip the BMW with (OEM) BMW Performance Power Kit, exhaust, suspension system and braking system.

Now that would be a fair comparison to me (and I read such a comparison is being done by one of the German magazines this autumn). You can't compare with a car which is 9.000 (or $6000 in the US) cheaper.

The S4 when specced the same in the UK is only£1000 more-so it is fair. The 335i has also been compared to many cars in comparison tests over the last few years that were cheaper.

Spydeputy · 09-06-2009, 06:58 AM

i believe the new body styles for Audi, have caught my eye. was never wild about the large grill, but the new look f/ the back on the 4 and 5 is very pleasing to look at.

Sniz · 09-06-2009, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstavaru

Anyway, this is not a fair comparison by any means. The BMW is 42.300EUR and the S4 is 51.400 in Europe. This leaves 9100 EUR for improvements on the BMW (or $6000 difference in North America) I think I can safely say that for this price you can equip the BMW with (OEM) BMW Performance Power Kit, exhaust, suspension system and braking system.

Now that would be a fair comparison to me (and I read such a comparison is being done by one of the German magazines this autumn). You can't compare with a car which is 9.000 (or $6000 in the US) cheaper.

you most certainly can compare those cars....why wouldnt you? that is not THAT big a price difference.

oh, and how much is that Ford?

beepbeep · 09-06-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstavaru

No, the S4 has DSG (dual-clutch) but the 335i has the conventional torque-converter automatic. Its not fair. But since the 335 sedan does not have DCT (the coupe has it), the closest match is the manual transmission.

The 335xi would be slower than the i.

The steptronic is NOT a conventional torque-converter auto. It is mechanically locked up just like a DCT once you are rolling. Think of it as a MCT (multi-clutch transmission). Three dual position clutches gives you 8 gearing possibilities. Seven are used for 6 forward speeds and reverse. Try this: select third in the DS setting and step on the gas while observing revs. There is no "converter" slippage. Revs go up only with tire speed. It is a hell of a transmission.

kjrulz · 09-06-2009, 10:22 AM

not knocking the s4 at all...but why 5.6 for our 0-100km. that's absurd....

09-05-2009, 05:06 PM	#1
TreDirtyFive Major 253 Rep 1,334 Posts Drives: X3 M40i Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (11)	Interesting S4 vs 335 vs FPV article. Interesting read...Thoughts? __________________ X3 M40i G01, M235i F22, 335 F30 MSport, 135 DCT, 335 E92, Audi A3
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09-05-2009, 05:09 PM	#2
darkphantom Banned 595 Rep 5,946 Posts Drives: E93 335i Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The place for Bimmers iTrader: (4)	I'll take these figures with a grain of salt IMHO....seriously, 5.6 secs 0-60 for our cars? our car weighs 200kgs less than the audi yet it is much slower...
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09-05-2009, 05:22 PM	#4
cstavaru Brigadier General 313 Rep 3,262 Posts Drives: 2009 335i M Sport Sedan 6MT Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bucharest, Romania iTrader: (0)	Put the BMW Performance Power Kit and BMW Performance Exhaust on the 335i, get the manual gearbox instead of the steptronic and then you will have a different winner. Not counting the BMW Performance Suspension and Brakes... PS: 5.6 0-60 on the BMW is a joke, right ? __________________ Mods(click): Cobb + RB Turbos \| Aquamist HFS-4 Meth \| Drexler LSD \| Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit \| Custom K&N Apollo Intake \| Wagner Intercooler \| Macht Schnell Downpipes \| BMW Performance Power Kit \| BMW Performance Exhaust \| BMW Performance Short Shifter \| M3 Subframe Bushings \|
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09-05-2009, 05:35 PM	#5
deletedelete Major General 361 Rep 5,873 Posts Drives: m Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: usa iTrader: (14) Garage List 2013 e92 M3 [0.00] 2011 e93 M3 (sold) [0.00] 2009 335xi (sold) [0.00]	That article is depressing. Hopefully some of that stuff is incorrect. No ford, except a gt, should do anything better then my bmw. __________________ ---> Click For xi/xDrive Suspension Compatibility List <---
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09-05-2009, 06:46 PM	#7
Sparky66 Major 58 Rep 1,230 Posts Drives: 335 E92 Coupe. Jet Black. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia iTrader: (0)	This being an Australian magazine review will generally always hand the upper hand to local muscle. That being said, the Ford Falcon FPV F6 is probably the greatest performance car ever developed on our shores. If any car was to serve the BMW 335 its arse, it would definitely be the Falcon. It shares similar traits to the BMW. Its Inline 6 is well renowned for its standard bullet proof internals.........that and the fact that they have a hefty single turbo arrangement lends itself favourably to upgraded tunes which push these cars output to over 500whp and around 700nm Torque Falcons also use the ZF Steptronic gearboxes like the BMW's, so more needs to be investigated on this front. It's becoming very common locally here to see these cars modified pushing 3.6 sec. 0-62mph and mid 11 sec. quarter mile runs. So I'm not surprised one bit with this article. As for the Audi..............it's just playing catchup to the very successful 335. More evolution than revolution, since time will always improve on an older product.
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09-05-2009, 07:47 PM	#9
ss134 Brigadier General 230 Rep 3,899 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Germany/UK iTrader: (1)	Unfortunately it looks like the S4 has our cars beaten fair and square. Ive read 6 or 7 comparison tests S4 v 335i with 6MT and the xi, tests done in the UK and Germany and the S4 has won all of them. Its taken a brand new car that costs more to do it but it has. Theres also tuning options for the Audi that take it to over 400bhp. The kerb weight for the 335i in this test is wrong, our cars weigh in around 1600kg and more if you have certain options. The 335 is a great car and fast but there are always faster cars out there....and the S4 is faster. My friend has a tuned Ford Focus ST with a few other mods and it is as fast my 335i-which is slightly depressing as it costs half as much including the mods! On the positive side - i prefer the looks of the 335, the fuel economy is far superior, i like the heavier steering feel and with a decent tune its as fast or faster than the S4 for less cash.
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09-05-2009, 08:10 PM	#10
deletedelete Major General 361 Rep 5,873 Posts Drives: m Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: usa iTrader: (14) Garage List 2013 e92 M3 [0.00] 2011 e93 M3 (sold) [0.00] 2009 335xi (sold) [0.00]	I thought the zf steptronic trans was limited to bmw. How did ford get it? And of course the s4 is gonna be faster. Its years newer. They had lots of time to look at the 3 and make something faster. Just like when the new 3 comes out it will be better. Thats the cycle. The ford being in a comparison with a bmw is scary. I assume the falcon is a euro model cause I have never heard of it. Its certainly not in america. __________________ ---> Click For xi/xDrive Suspension Compatibility List <---
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09-05-2009, 08:35 PM	#11
TreDirtyFive Major 253 Rep 1,334 Posts Drives: X3 M40i Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (11)	It is an Australian article and the Falcon is a very popular Sports car in Aussie Land. They definitely do favor the muscle variety there. And those Falcon's are faaast. But let's be fair, the N54, in its current variant at 300hp, is over 3 years old now and is still being compared to newer faster cars. That is a testament to the powerplant that BMW has built. Things will only get better...as BMW's current M3 was their response to Audi's RS4 and they licked Audi handily...although I still find the bulky and wide RS4 a definite looker. All these tests are relative. Everyone saying that the 5.6sec 0-60 is ridiculously incorrect should realize that if they hit sub 4s with the 335 then the other cars would also be faster as well. An American magazine would probably have the Audi hitting a 4.8 while the Falcon hitting 4.9 and the 335 a 5 flat or something. Whatever the case, I applaud Audi if theyve finally made something interesting to talk about. I have a heavily modded A3 and it took a lot to make it fun to drive. The 335 was fun right out of the box for me. Take it for what it's worth. Give it a bit, I'm sure BMW has something up its sleeves. __________________ X3 M40i G01, M235i F22, 335 F30 MSport, 135 DCT, 335 E92, Audi A3
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09-05-2009, 09:13 PM	#12
Sniz Lieutenant General 654 Rep 10,587 Posts Drives: e92 335 - gone // e36 M3 turbo Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ellicott City, MD iTrader: (1)	that Ford is sweet and the new S4 is a looker for sure. __________________
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09-06-2009, 12:33 AM	#14
ihyln Banned 85 Rep 3,384 Posts Drives: M3post sucks Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: M3post sucks iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 M3 [0.00] 2002 530i [0.00]	What a crappy article... AWD vs RWD? I didn't need to read an article to tell me the outcome. Next thing you know they will tell us water is wet. Also, that Ford is hideous.
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09-06-2009, 01:03 AM	#15
M3_WC Brigadier General 1040 Rep 3,622 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	S4 is looking good, for sure. Audi modding community will do that car right.
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09-06-2009, 05:20 AM	#16
cstavaru Brigadier General 313 Rep 3,262 Posts Drives: 2009 335i M Sport Sedan 6MT Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bucharest, Romania iTrader: (0)	Anyway, this is not a fair comparison by any means. The BMW is 42.300EUR and the S4 is 51.400 in Europe. This leaves 9100 EUR for improvements on the BMW (or $6000 difference in North America) I think I can safely say that for this price you can equip the BMW with (OEM) BMW Performance Power Kit, exhaust, suspension system and braking system. Now that would be a fair comparison to me (and I read such a comparison is being done by one of the German magazines this autumn). You can't compare with a car which is 9.000 (or $6000 in the US) cheaper. __________________ Mods(click): Cobb + RB Turbos \| Aquamist HFS-4 Meth \| Drexler LSD \| Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit \| Custom K&N Apollo Intake \| Wagner Intercooler \| Macht Schnell Downpipes \| BMW Performance Power Kit \| BMW Performance Exhaust \| BMW Performance Short Shifter \| M3 Subframe Bushings \|
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09-06-2009, 05:44 AM	#17
enrita Major General 161 Rep 7,377 Posts Drives: 335i - Big turbos Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Italian in Sweden iTrader: (0)	There is no performance bmw braking system for the 335 last time i checked. Has that been released lately? __________________ 07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD E85 BMS flash - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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09-06-2009, 06:58 AM	#19
Spydeputy Brigadier General 205 Rep 3,523 Posts Drives: 2015 F23 M235i/2008,E90,335xi Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: The County, Maryland iTrader: (19) Garage List 2017 X5 M Sport Pac ... [0.00] 2015 M235i, F23 [0.00]	i believe the new body styles for Audi, have caught my eye. was never wild about the large grill, but the new look f/ the back on the 4 and 5 is very pleasing to look at.
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09-06-2009, 10:22 AM	#22
kjrulz Mastermind 71 Rep 1,360 Posts Drives: girls krazy Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: your mother iTrader: (5)	not knocking the s4 at all...but why 5.6 for our 0-100km. that's absurd....
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