[ASAP]

Originally Posted by DN302

The majority of Porsche sales are the Macan and Cayenne.

thats obvious... the only other options there are pure sports cars and the sole sort of sedan, the panamera which is over 100k...

[BRAKE!]

I wonder if the total sales figure actually corresponds to total vehicles delivered. I’m guessing it does? But with all these deals inked on paper without the cars actually arriving on time makes me wonder…

[M3AWD]

Originally Posted by BRAKE!

I wonder if the total sales figure actually corresponds to total vehicles delivered. I’m guessing it does? But with all these deals inked on paper without the cars actually arriving on time makes me wonder…

You mean like all the cybertrucks Tesla "sold'?

[RCtennis3811]

Originally Posted by Infamy

3series took a hit with the terrible LCI model and the crappy idrive 8.

Yeah I disagree. There just we’re not many 3s on lots throughout the year. Only recently has my dealer had some on the showroom.

[wesleyan92]

Originally Posted by davyent

Does this data include the M models as well?

Yes it does; they are buried within their respective series numbers.

[wesleyan92]

Originally Posted by ASAP

unless you are reading my comment literally, it means without the SUVs, BMW would be in trouble... the X5 sales for this year equalled the 3 4 and 5 altogether which is crazy

In 2021 Porsche sold 9.9K 911 and 718 combined. During the same period, they also sold 31K Cayenne and Macans combined.

No surprise at all and instead prescient reading of the market and consumer preferences by the OEMs. Of course, awesome products as well.

[Bimmerfun82]

Yes, the X5 really is that good.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by tgrundke

Better availability of the X5, plus, a lot of X3 buyers are very lease price sensitive as compared to X5 buyers.

X5, 5 series and X7, 7 series buyers in aggregate are more price inelastic than your traditional 3-series consumer.

And I would say the latest X5 looks great and is well-priced.

Any issues with the X3 LCI? Even with the reasons above, it's a surprise to see X3 sales off as they are.

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by ASAP

unless you are reading my comment literally, it means without the SUVs, BMW would be in trouble... the X5 sales for this year equalled the 3 4 and 5 altogether which is crazy

X5 is simply a nearly perfect design for the target customer segment. One could only imagine the sales uplift if iX were X5 electrified instead.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by chassis

And I would say the latest X5 looks great and is well-priced.

Any issues with the X3 LCI? Even with the reasons above, it's a surprise to see X3 sales off as they are.

the x3's were somehow harder to find during this year and the m40i allocations were like M cars almost...

[Jimjamz]

Porsche sales up 20+%, BMW’s down.

Grill designs on the 4 series and M3/4’s sending loyal customers away and relying on AMG refugees to compensate for the departures. Over the next 12 months our two car perpetual BMW garage will transition to P cars for the first time in 2 decades (+ the M2 CS). Overall, these results don’t surprise me. You can’t absorb that much design repulsion and not see it affect your overall performance.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Porsche sales up 20+%, BMW’s down.

Grill designs on the 4 series and M3/4’s sending loyal customers away and relying on AMG refugees to compensate for the departures. Over the next 12 months our two car perpetual BMW garage will transition to P cars for the first time in 2 decades (+ the M2 CS). Overall, these results don’t surprise me. You can’t absorb that much design repulsion and not see it affect your overall performance.

In my circle of friends that is on the spot
2 guys left their fat C63s and went with G80s
While the other 4 plus myself left BMW completely and went to other platforms
That is a negative net of 3

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Porsche sales up 20+%, BMW’s down.

Grill designs on the 4 series and M3/4’s sending loyal customers away and relying on AMG refugees to compensate for the departures. Over the next 12 months our two car perpetual BMW garage will transition to P cars for the first time in 2 decades (+ the M2 CS). Overall, these results don’t surprise me. You can’t absorb that much design repulsion and not see it affect your overall performance.

Has Porsche released their results? And this is just NA sales numbers. Are you speaking to NA or global? And Porsche has much smaller overall volume. And they had a ton of pent-up demand because of their supply chain issues. BMW navigated through this past few years much better.

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Porsche sales up 20+%, BMW’s down.

Grill designs on the 4 series and M3/4’s sending loyal customers away and relying on AMG refugees to compensate for the departures. Over the next 12 months our two car perpetual BMW garage will transition to P cars for the first time in 2 decades (+ the M2 CS). Overall, these results don’t surprise me. You can’t absorb that much design repulsion and not see it affect your overall performance.

Very insightful observation.

Large global corporations operate on 4 year cycles.

Years 1 and 2: product development, market positioning
Year 3: “we are right even if customers vote with their currency of choice to select another product”
Year 4: “it’s time to return to our roots” (read: financial results are unsurprisingly lackluster); new decision makers replace old decision makers

This applies of course only to products where customers' embrace is less than enthusiastic.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

Very insightful observation.

Large global corporations operate on 4 year cycles.

Years 1 and 2: product development, market positioning
Year 3: “we are right even if customers vote with their currency of choice to select another product”
Year 4: “it’s time to return to our roots” (read: financial results are unsurprisingly lackluster); new decision makers replace old decision makers

Completely false and too generalized.

This G8x will be vastly higher sales relative to any previous generation. Porsche is selling more taycans and SUVs, not significantly more 911s and 718s. The m3/m4 is not losing market share.

[wesleyan92]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Porsche sales up 20+%, BMW’s down.

Grill designs on the 4 series and M3/4’s sending loyal customers away and relying on AMG refugees to compensate for the departures. Over the next 12 months our two car perpetual BMW garage will transition to P cars for the first time in 2 decades (+ the M2 CS). Overall, these results don’t surprise me. You can’t absorb that much design repulsion and not see it affect your overall performance.

Originally Posted by M3macster

Has Porsche released their results? And this is just NA sales numbers. Are you speaking to NA or global? And Porsche has much smaller overall volume. And they had a ton of pent-up demand because of their supply chain issues. BMW navigated through this past few years much better.

The quote of a 20+% Porsche sales increase is fake news and false. Porsche has not released their Q4 numbers yet. As of Q3, they were lagging 4.9% from 2021.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/2...022-29845.html

[danf72]

Originally Posted by wesleyan92

The quote of a 20+% Porsche sales increase is fake news and false. Porsche has not released their Q4 numbers yet. As of Q3, they were lagging 4.9% from 2021.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/2...022-29845.html

I'm curious what Porsche numbers are. Maybe SUV sales are through the roof, but you can't even buy a 911/718/Taycan without being on a "list" for a year or two or three. I can't understand how their sales numbers for those models could be good.

BMW seems to be holding up better. Afaik, you can buy most models in a more reasonable amount of time, although it seems like they are selling everything they can produce. So it's very difficult to say that any sales drop is due to model changes, LCI, design choices, etc.

[wesleyan92]

Originally Posted by danf72

I'm curious what Porsche numbers are. Maybe SUV sales are through the roof, but you can't even buy a 911/718/Taycan without being on a "list" for a year or two or three. I can't understand how their sales numbers for those models could be good.

BMW seems to be holding up better. Afaik, you can buy most models in a more reasonable amount of time, although it seems like they are selling everything they can produce. So it's very difficult to say that any sales drop is due to model changes, LCI, design choices, etc.

Check the link in my post; it has the model breakdown through Q3.

[MarlboroM2C]

And still no idea how.many M2 Competitions were sold or produced since 2018

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by wesleyan92

The quote of a 20+% Porsche sales increase is fake news and false. Porsche has not released their Q4 numbers yet. As of Q3, they were lagging 4.9% from 2021.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/2022/company/porsche-cars-north-america-retail-sales-third-quarter-2022-29845.html

Should have said Australian results - where P sales are up over 25% and BMW down over 8%. NA a different market no doubt.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...sults-for-2022

[Tejas1836]

Originally Posted by M3macster

Completely false and too generalized.

This G8x will be vastly higher sales relative to any previous generation. Porsche is selling more taycans and SUVs, not significantly more 911s and 718s. The m3/m4 is not losing market share.

I don't think so either, they sure aren't here

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

I don't think so either, they sure aren't here

Exactly. The 2022 numbers will be interesting.

In 2021 BMW sold >2.2m vehicles, and Porsche sold about 0.3m (off the top of my head). 911s are about 10k/yr in the US and 35k globally (if memory serves). Overall the M division sells about 60% of Porsche total volume. It’s not even close when it comes to M3/4 sales and 911/718. Porsche plays the exclusive, overpriced game. But this nonsense about Porsche replacing M cars is just that- nonsense.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/01/12/b...s-record-2021/