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      01-05-2023, 03:56 PM   #1
Rob_G77
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Paint matching black sapphire metallic

I just had some damage repaired on my 2022 M850i and while the paint color match is very good, the metallic flake is definitely different. And it's different enough that I'm not too happy about it. I see bigger flakes, more flakes and occasional flecks of red in the flakes.

My question is how difficult should it be for the autobody to match the metallic flake? I already told them I wasn't happy with the result, but the manager(?) was quick to dismiss my concerns.

I'm pissed that I have to complain and complain just to get action. I can't simply trust them to make it right and deliver me the car without scratched up clearcoat and other issues.

Rob
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      01-05-2023, 04:59 PM   #2
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Was it a Certified BMW paint facility ?


https://www.bodyshopbusiness.com/off...match-a-color/

" Choose the right size metallic flakes. When matching metallic colors, always be sure that the metallic flake is the proper size. You can actually have a paint color match, but it’ll appear differently than the car because of a mis-matched metallic. Coarser metallic makes the paint look darker, while a finer metallic makes the paint look lighter. When choosing an alternate formula, choose the one with the right metallic that matches your vehicle. "


Have no opinion if you should complain or not. BMW M850 certainly isn't a vehicle you have an apprentice work on.

Last edited by overcoil; 01-05-2023 at 05:06 PM..
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      01-05-2023, 07:36 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravaggio View Post
Was it a Certified BMW paint facility ?
Yes, it is a certified BMW repair center.

I took the car back today and spoke to the manager. Eventually, they somewhat agreed there is too much metallic in the paint, but it's always more a question of what I see, not what they do. They didn't argue about fixing it though so they will be repainting the rear quarter panel and bumper. I just wanted them to acknowledge the issue and just try and do it better. We also noticed big sanding marks and scuffs in the new clearcoat. The car has to go back either way for them to clean it up.

At the end of the day, I want to be 'taken care of' and not have to second guess or worry about things not being right. I said get the car back to as close to new as you can. That's all I want.

Compare the door metallic to rear quarter. Rear has too much flake

Rob
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      01-06-2023, 12:12 PM   #4
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Even if it is a certified shop, there can be issues like you mentioned. How do I know? I've been down that route before. In the end, I just gave up after them trying to fix it twice. I learnt to live with it and ended up selling the car.
That alone makes me want to get non-metallic paint for my cars but yeah.
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      01-06-2023, 01:26 PM   #5
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Rob_G77 what a beautiful car. Wow !
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      01-06-2023, 04:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_G77 View Post
I just had some damage repaired on my 2022 M850i and while the paint color match is very good, the metallic flake is definitely different. And it's different enough that I'm not too happy about it. I see bigger flakes, more flakes and occasional flecks of red in the flakes.

My question is how difficult should it be for the autobody to match the metallic flake? I already told them I wasn't happy with the result, but the manager(?) was quick to dismiss my concerns.

I'm pissed that I have to complain and complain just to get action. I can't simply trust them to make it right and deliver me the car without scratched up clearcoat and other issues.

Rob
I can't comment about the size, but BSM does have a small amount of red flake in it. I saw it in bright sun on my Z4M.
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      01-07-2023, 08:25 AM   #7
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Body shops are a big pet peeve of mine. They are mostly all terrible. No attention to detail.
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      01-08-2023, 12:48 AM   #8
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Well, I guess my question for the experts is should the bumper be replaced or is it ok to sand and repaint? I'm concerned of an impending hack job.....

BMW:
"To ensure the system function in vehicles with sensor for lane change warning (optional equipment S5ASA and S5ATA), do not repaint the bumper panel in paint stage 1 or paint stage 3."

Rob
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      01-08-2023, 09:17 PM   #9
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Here is the issue:

Left is original, right is repaint. The metallic is so different. Bigger flakes, more of them.
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      01-09-2023, 08:11 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_G77 View Post
Well, I guess my question for the experts is should the bumper be replaced or is it ok to sand and repaint? I'm concerned of an impending hack job.....

BMW:
"To ensure the system function in vehicles with sensor for lane change warning (optional equipment S5ASA and S5ATA), do not repaint the bumper panel in paint stage 1 or paint stage 3."

Rob
Maybe it is a German to English translation thing, BMW might be saying don't use single stage or 3 stage paint on that bumper, both of which are generally end up thicker than standard base/clearcoat or 2 stage paint.
Just taking a guess considering the lane change sensor probably needs the thinnest coating of paint for it to sense the other vehicle.
Personally, on a car that new and valuable I would demand they repaint it.
Is the panel metal or plastic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_G77 View Post
Here is the issue:

Left is original, right is repaint. The metallic is so different. Bigger flakes, more of them.
Now I see what you are saying, much more noticeable in your last pic than in your first pics.
Yes, horrible, looks like they found an old can of beach buggy paint from the 70's
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      01-09-2023, 09:24 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannyknot View Post
Now I see what you are saying, much more noticeable in your last pic than in your first pics.
Yes, horrible, looks like they found an old can of beach buggy paint from the 70's
It was so frustrating that the autobody wouldn't admit there was any difference between the original and repainted areas. I was constantly being told it was something I was seeing. Although they said they have no problem repainting it.

And I do have a big problem with a brand new bumper now having to be sanded and repainted. The car is too expensive to be half-assing it.

Rob
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      01-09-2023, 11:41 AM   #12
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as I see it (and I can't really see things accurately with the pictures) if there were an issue that when viewing the car from the side you can see a difference between the door (which I am guessing wasn't painted ) and the quarter panel (which I assume was painted ) then that is significant. Should the quarter panels be repainted that needs to be thought through.

I'm assuming the clear coat haze in the quarter panel is not too difficult to polish out. I might be nuts but I usually don't do paint correction in a season when there is or has been road salt dispensed recently. That salt takes a few washes to get out off the car and days of rain to get out of the streets.

If the bumper is the only piece showing a difference in the flakes but the color is good then that is also an issue that needs to be thought out. Also really inspect the front bumper - I don't know but could the different material of the bumper have an effect on how the flake materials land ?

Also when inspecting the new painted pieces look for drips or dirt particularly near edges and mating points. If you don't see any drips or defects then that might tell you that that aspect of the paint job was very well done.

But like I said pictures on the computer is a hard format to assess paint quality.
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      01-09-2023, 11:51 AM   #13
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I'm not a pro in but my understanding is that it is hard if not impossible to paint match 100%, especially metallic or a perl color. That is why they will instead blend the paint. Extend the paint into the next panel to hide it and make it blend. I thought this was standard practise for like the best jobs.

Also OP the red circle you have circled is not metallic flake, not sure if you were aware and you were just showing us that picture you intended to also show the body shop the holograms. That is hazing/holograms and simply needs to be polished out.
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      01-09-2023, 11:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ View Post
Even if it is a certified shop, there can be issues like you mentioned. How do I know? I've been down that route before. In the end, I just gave up after them trying to fix it twice. I learnt to live with it and ended up selling the car.
That alone makes me want to get non-metallic paint for my cars but yeah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie55 View Post
Body shops are a big pet peeve of mine. They are mostly all terrible. No attention to detail.
Yep body shops are the absolute worst. I was labelled a "difficult customer" because I expected my car to look as good as it was before and was pointing out all the issues with their paint job like the holograms for example or the flake. Like wtf is this bullshit. I have insurance to fix my car to what it was, not to fix it to less it was. And to be labelled a "difficult" customer when all I'm expecting is the minimum is absolutely pathetic and enraging
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      01-09-2023, 03:38 PM   #15
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I'm also considered "difficult" because mostly I do all my own paint, I was forced into learning to do it myself after being ripped off one too many times by lying paint shops.
However this fall I had to fix a couple of rust blisters in the bird bath trough on the hatch of the Z4MC.

Black metallic paint is the true test of a good painter and I wasn't sure if I was up for that test just yet so I fixed rust and prepped the hatch for paint and took it down to my local collision shop with paint codes for Black Sapphire metallic.
After they quoted, $500 I mange to spend 10min with the painter talking prep, techniques and equipment, he assured me everything was cool and I would be happy.
He was right, a young guy who took pride in his work and he did outstanding work.

They used a digital paint colour reader for the shade and the paint code for reference.
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      01-09-2023, 06:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravaggio View Post
If the bumper is the only piece showing a difference in the flakes but the color is good then that is also an issue that needs to be thought out.
It's the whole left rear quarter panel and rear bumper. Originally I asked for an option of paintless dent removal on the rear quarter because the damage was a slight buckle with no damage to the factory paint. I really wanted to avoid a repaint of that! But since the bend was on a body line, they said it couldn't be done. I took them at their word on that.

It just feels like this is just going to go from bad to worse. I was preparing to sell the car in October and this has all been just a brutal nightmare for me. There are also no diminished value claims here in Canada. The claim now makes resale almost impossible without taking a massive loss. I will include a pic of the original damage.

Rob
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      01-09-2023, 07:38 PM   #17
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It would seem to me that the harsh snow environment probably dulled your stock paint and the body shop paint just looks better with more clarity. Id have someone else do a paint correction on the stock paint to make it look like the new paint the shop laid down. Its probably just that.

Ive had the same paint I thought I took care of well on a former bmw. Then I had it paint corrected and was blown away at home much more flake I saw in the paint. The flake also looked much bigger to me.

That might be the problem here.
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      01-10-2023, 12:31 AM   #18
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The car looks Gorgeous though
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      01-13-2023, 02:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_G77 View Post
It's the whole left rear quarter panel and rear bumper. Originally I asked for an option of paintless dent removal on the rear quarter because the damage was a slight buckle with no damage to the factory paint. I really wanted to avoid a repaint of that! But since the bend was on a body line, they said it couldn't be done. I took them at their word on that.

It just feels like this is just going to go from bad to worse. I was preparing to sell the car in October and this has all been just a brutal nightmare for me. There are also no diminished value claims here in Canada. The claim now makes resale almost impossible without taking a massive loss. I will include a pic of the original damage.

Rob
Glad you're getting this sorted out
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      01-13-2023, 06:40 PM   #20
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Unfortunately this is very common with metallic paint finishes, don't ask how I know as I don't want to relive my experience haha- but it should be able to be corrected as previous poster mentioned definitely a size spec on the metallic fleck.

Sending you car healing vibes! I have been going through it, so I know it's frustrating, but all will be ok in the end and most bodyshops are definitely wanting the client to be happy! It's hard when you don't have your baby but it will all work out. I am actually in a way glad that we have black, as I think I would be more OCD if it were a white-match issue :/ not that it makes it any better.

Also as previous posted stated, DEF a detail and paint corrector can make it look amazing and lessen orange peel etc. I am SUPER OCD about my car, but I have to also remember that bumper for example even from factory will have a different finish slightly with the varying materials. Keep your chin up.

Last edited by M4_ZMT; 01-13-2023 at 06:45 PM.. Reason: Added addtl info
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      01-14-2023, 06:03 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4_ZMT View Post
Unfortunately this is very common with metallic paint finishes, don't ask how I know as I don't want to relive my experience haha- but it should be able to be corrected as previous poster mentioned definitely a size spec on the metallic fleck.
Thank you for the positive vibes. I sent the dealership and the autobody shop managers an email just asking to be taken care of and please give me the car back in as best condition it can be. I wish they had done better the first time, but they said they can fix it so I will give them that opportunity.

They did not answer 1 significant question regarding what the BMW recommendation is for bumper repainting. Obviously they just want to repaint it and call it a day. I should contact another BMW repair center to find out what the truth is.

The reply I got:

"Good morning Rob

I have booked your appointment for January 30th with us and have secured a loaner car with BMW for you we will do everything to make this process as easy and flawless a possible

As for the car looking perfect we will make sure that the fleck is as close to factory as possible and will make sure no swirl marks in paint

I look forward to making this right and thank you for your business

Again thank you"
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      01-24-2023, 09:50 AM   #22
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Last weekend my car got hit yet again by another careless driver. He attempted to pull into a passing lane on the left when snow buildup left no room. He was 2 inches from sideswiping me and his passenger mirror made contact with my driver side mirror (damaging it).

I guess it's time to put another claim on my car, even if the damage is minimal.

Rob
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