[S62PWR]

For those who don't know, the Water/Methanol injection does two things:

1. Provides in-cylinder cooling/higher density intake charge
2. Meth increases the base octane number of fuel. Tool around town with regular gas, or boost it up to race quality without having to use race fuel. Or use race fuel and give yourself some insurance.

Do a little research for just how much effect there is, there are several sites.

Nice install Dude! Factory! Great write up

You have a very similar set up I was considering for an increase in power, longevity and occasional track use (without surprises or a drop off in power due to heat soak at the track later in the day):

1. Larger Intercooler
2. Spray, with the 2 additions you've implemented for safety
3. Bigger oil cooler
4. ECU tune
5. Downpipes, ceramic coated. Integrated or HF Cats (haven't decided)

A couple of questions, is it possible to have water in the line under pressure and still have a clogged sprayer and not throw off the LED? Are you filtering the liquid from the reservoir to prevent possible clogs from debris? Can you hear the pump operating?? I've heard some are annoying and loud. Oh and, what is that nifty looking status screen in the ashtray??

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[RetroGamerJP]

Originally Posted by S62PWR

A couple of questions, is it possible to have water in the line under pressure and still have a clogged sprayer and not throw off the LED? Are you filtering the liquid from the reservoir to prevent possible clogs from debris? Can you hear the pump operating?? I've heard some are annoying and loud. Oh and, what is that nifty looking status screen in the ashtray??

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If the Line is clogged the LED will stay lit constantly. I have tested this and am comfortable that it is working properly.
The nozzle itself has a filter and I plan on cleaning it every month or so. Probably not needed but I will see if after the first month there is any sign of debris.

Pump is quite to begin with but you can no hear it all when it is injecting under boost.

The Screen is the Zeitronix Boost / EGT / O2 display. I converted the ashtray to the sunglass holder and it fits perfectly. The lid still closes as well.

[RetroGamerJP]

Originally Posted by O-cha

I'm still confused as to why you and others are running these purely MAP based since our pressure drops off at high rpms, you should want more injection at high rpms and 10 psi then 3k and 14psi. But you will have less.

From my past experience with W/I it is all about trying to keep an appropriate mixture of Water / Air not Water / RPM... if you inject too much water at a lower boost level the motor will not be happy.

The kit is fully adjustable so I can tweak over the next few weeks if the need arises or I could always dictate a static water pressure to inject at a given PSI but I dont think thats the way to go. The kit does give you a lot of flexibility though.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by jp335i

From my past experience with W/I it is all about trying to keep an appropriate mixture of Water / Air not Water / RPM... if you inject too much water at a lower boost level the motor will not be happy.

Right, that's what I'm saying though, at 6k RPMs and 12psi the engines consuming WAY more air than 3k rpms and 14psi but the way you, and m&m are running there they have MORE injection at 3k.

[myfirstbmw335i]

+1

[BoostedBMW]

JP, that is a really clean install... very nice job. Keep us posted with how you do on the dyno.

[RetroGamerJP]

Originally Posted by O-cha

Right, that's what I'm saying though, at 6k RPMs and 12psi the engines consuming WAY more air than 3k rpms and 14psi but the way you, and m&m are running there they have MORE injection at 3k.

Yes more injection the the time when PSI levels are the highest. That is where I want the Water/Meth. The motivation for Water/Meth is to be able to run higher BOOST levels safely not higher RPMs. at 14psi I give it more then at 12psi regardless of RPM.

[RetroGamerJP]

Originally Posted by BoostedBMW

JP, that is a really clean install... very nice job. Keep us posted with how you do on the dyno.

Thank you very much... I plan on trying to get it on the Dyno Thursday night if I can get out of the office on time.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by jp335i

Yes more injection the the time when PSI levels are the highest. That is where I want the Water/Meth. The motivation for Water/Meth is to be able to run higher BOOST levels safely not higher RPMs. at 14psi I give it more then at 12psi regardless of RPM.

You're not really getting what I'm saying here.

Let's just say for a second it was a constant 14psi, would you want the same injection throughout the rev range? I'm pretty sure you would not as you would have much much less water/meth per combustion cycle in the higher rev range than the lower. Which is bad just because its less and because higher RPMs will need it/make use of it more.

Same applies to our engine, but more so since it peaks early and tapers toward higher RPMs.

Just because its lower PSI does not mean you need less spray, that same or less amount of spray at 6k + 12psi is going to be divided between twice as many combustion cycles.



If you believe this to be wrong then please explain.

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by jp335i

Yes more injection the the time when PSI levels are the highest. That is where I want the Water/Meth. The motivation for Water/Meth is to be able to run higher BOOST levels safely not higher RPMs. at 14psi I give it more then at 12psi regardless of RPM.

That's right. My guess is that our tiny blowers will run out of breath before hitting any other walls when employing W/I. Most of the dynos I've seen so far still show boost holding to redline.

[Rugs]

Sweet looking install JP...I had a Snow/Aquamist setup on my G35 and it worked great hot track days. I plan on doing this on my e93 as well.
Can you post some closeup pics of the black or CF piece under your front aero lip?
-Rick

[e.n335]

@jp335i:

This is a great thread. I especially like the configuration of the system and the location of the pump. Thanks a lot for your additional efforts documenting the installation. A picture where you installed the nozzle would be great.

- Eugen

[kptaylor]

So, O-cha, are you saying MAF controlled would be better since it's sensing air flow?

[e.n335]

AFAIK, we don't have a MAF controlled system in the 335i ...

The PROcede itself would be a perfect controller for a WIS system and could act as the WIS controller, respecting boost pressure and rpm . The Helix Attaché is announced with WIS support already.

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by O-cha

Right, that's what I'm saying though, at 6k RPMs and 12psi the engines consuming WAY more air than 3k rpms and 14psi but the way you, and m&m are running there they have MORE injection at 3k.

It's comsuming way more fuel as well. It's not just adding air without other considerations on timing and fuel.

[S62PWR]

Hey John, I assume you compared Snow's products to Aquamist's. Could you explain your reasoning behind going with Snow?

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

It's comsuming way more fuel as well. It's not just adding air without other considerations on timing and fuel.

Lol yea of course its using more fuel. Less fuel per cylinder fire of course, but more overall. But the injection system is metering overall, and the way they have it set up its injecting less. It's not bad, any is good, it's just not what it could/should be.

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by O-cha

yea of course its using more fuel. Less fuel per cylinder fire of course, but more overall.

Wha?? Of course?

How does more fuel overall = Less fuel / cyl? That's an impossible statement. You sound confused.

The car is targeting A/F ratios, and in conditions where more boost (air) is being applied, more fuel is being added to compensate. The car isn't intentionally leaning itself out at high RPMs. That makes no sense.

[Helix Wildebeest]

We have tuned in many Meth kits. There is a PWM solenoid that Aquamist offers that works great. like an injector it allows you to add more or less meth. So in lower RPM you can start off low and taper up with more RPM/boost. This works better than compromising on a jst that won't bog @ lower RPMs and leave you wanting more in the higher RPM ranges. Remember Meth is a high octane fuel with just about half the specific energy of gasoline so that needs to be accounted for in the tune. Personally with a meth tune I like to lean it out a little and add in boost and/or timing.

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by SpaRTan8

Personally with a meth tune I like to lean it out a little and add in boost and/or timing.

THat's typically what you see happen, and where the real benefit lies... Great to see W/I already for these!

[TurboFan]

great write-up. I'm looking for ways to improve cooling as I go further down the engine mod road.

*subscribed*

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

Wha?? Of course?

How does more fuel overall = Less fuel / cyl? That's an impossible statement. You sound confused.

No you just misunderstood the word overall. There is less fuel per cylinder firing at high RPMs (and less air) you can be sure of this as the engine is much lower on torque. There is, however, more overall (over time) obviously because the RPMs are much higher.

Since the injection system is not a metered amount per firing (like fuel) and its sprayed overall, it needs to spray more at the higher RPMs to keep up with the overall air consumption (and fuel) which is much higher at higher RPMs EVEN THOUGH boost is lower.