[greenberet123]

Hi Bimmer folks -

tldr; - my beloved car broke down and would love to have some help checking a quote from the car shop

The car: 2008 BMW 328i convertible sports - E93, with an N51 engine

The accident
My car went through an accident over the weekend. A stone from a gravel road hit the oil pan and made a hole. All the oil came out and I was still driving for 30 mins after that. When I finally stopped, there was a large pool of oil under the car. I then stupidly tried to start the car. The car moves for a minute and then shut down.

The quote
Here is the quote I got from the mechanic.

"Verified vehicle is a no crank - engine barely rotates, even with booster connected. Hoisted vehicle and confirmed hole in oil pan near drain plug. Removed oil filter cap and filter to inspect for debris but found no particulate in filter media. Removed cowling and acoustic cover to access and remove all coils and plugs. Used borescope to inspect all cylinders, immediately noted multiple intake valves recessed too far into seats - #5 intake valves were not closed evenly and an unusual amount of fluid was found inside cylinder. Also noted none of the cylinder walls had visible cross hatching in addition to abnormal "film" of spotting. Checked coolant and found almost empty.
Determined sudden loss of oil/oil pressure caused rotating assembly failure. Lack of debris in filter or top end indicates failure was sudden and insufficient oil was present to move any debris into filter.
Given sudden failure, loss of coolant, fluid intrusion into cylinders, loss of cross hatching, and abnormal valve seating, complete engine replacement will be required: clearances too small and Valvetronic/VANOS systems are too fragile to tolerate loss of lubrication or intrusion of water or debris. Replacement of Valvetronic actuator and eccentric shaft position sensor also required with engine. "

I have a quote for a new engine for $5500 and $7000

http://download.boltontechnology.com...8FA190E1D1.pdf

Was just wondering:
1. Is the quote reasonable
2. Should I go through insurance?
3. Is the car worth saving? I want to drive a convertible and don't want to spend too much money on a new one.

Thanks so much! Looking forward to your help!

[Jesda]

That's well within reason to me.

[Tunafish]

I wished i lived where i could pick up an E93 for next to nothing, had to drive 400 miles to even get in low book range for mine.

Your looking at $7000 to $12000 for a replacement car.. The quote seems average but it might pay to shop around. If you have insurance i would try going though them since it was a road hazard..

[gbalthrop]

I don't mean to be insensitive to your "Very Bad Day", but:
1) No Splash shield or Lower Engine Cover beneath engine?
2) No Low Oil Pressure Warning Light?
3) No Coolant Level Switch Warning Light?
4) No SES Light?

A) Check your insurance policy to see WHAT if ANY road damage coverage you might have under either Collision or Comprehensive coverages (similar to rock hitting Windshield or Light Assembly, or even Deer strike).

B) If a Shop maintained your vehicle (as opposed to you), check that Shop's insurance policy.

George

[BravoJohny33]

I wouldn't pay 7k for another engine because you can just buy another car for that price. You will have the chance to pick options you wish you could have the first time around. I know you said they aren't that price where you live so you should just do a nation wide search and then fly in to pick the car if it means you are going to save a few thousands.


Where does this mechanic figure 6k in labor? I just found multiple n52 engines for 750 bucks. Oh and an engine swap is not great for resale value.

[Buug959]

Originally Posted by BravoJohny33

I wouldn't pay 7k for another engine because you can just buy another car for that price. You will have the chance to pick options you wish you could have the first time around. I know you said they aren't that price where you live so you should just do a nation wide search and then fly in to pick the car if it means you are going to save a few thousands.


Where does this mechanic figure 6k in labor? I just found multiple n52 engines for 750 bucks. Oh and an engine swap is not great for resale value.

And if you're not comfortable flying in this era of Covid 19 a lot can be accomplished on-line with photos and videos. Then just have the car trucked to your home town. I had mine shipped from Sarnia, ON to Halifax, NS (almost 1300 miles) for $900CDN (about $685USD).
It's just another option the OP can consider.

[BravoJohny33]

Another reason not to go with engine swap is you can part out the body and maybe make 2k. Or just sell the body for 1k or something. That is another 1000 bucks towards another car.

[Tunafish]

The labor is $2340 not $7k. And who knows how much money its going to take to get that $750 engine functional. The shop is also warranting their engine, how much warranty is on the $750 one? Lets not talk nonsense.

If you do a nation wide search for an e93 they start a little above 7k. Then you have the sentimental valve "my beloved car". And maybe the cars has all the options the OP already wants.. Plus 88k milage is low milage for that year. But getting other qoutes wont hurt.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by Tunafish

The labor is $2340 not $7k. And who knows how much money its going to take to get that $750 engine functional. The shop is also warranting their engine, how much warranty is on the $750 one? Lets not talk nonsense.

If you do a nation wide search for an e93 they start a little above 7k. Then you have the sentimental valve "my beloved car". And maybe the cars has all the options the OP already wants.. Plus 88k milage is low milage for that year. But getting other qoutes wont hurt.

the quote also includes a new timing set and a bunch of gaskets and seals you should replace on a junkyard motor before you put it in the chassis. Like the crank seals, and the oil pan.


If I were the OP I'd certainly investigate the insurance aspect.
comprehensive should cover road debris.

[BravoJohny33]

Originally Posted by Tunafish

The labor is $2340 not $7k. And who knows how much money its going to take to get that $750 engine functional. The shop is also warranting their engine, how much warranty is on the $750 one? Lets not talk nonsense.

If you do a nation wide search for an e93 they start a little above 7k. Then you have the sentimental valve "my beloved car". And maybe the cars has all the options the OP already wants.. Plus 88k milage is low milage for that year. But getting other qoutes wont hurt.

2500 for an engine is still insane. I found ones with 1 year warranty for 1300 and you can extend it to 2 years for a little more. He does have a 2008 so if he got a 2009 and up he would have an LCI which most people prefer. Either way Id shop around for that engine swap. I have a feeling you could knock another 1000 off with different engine supplier and find someone who charges less than 130 an hour.

As the other users say insurances should cover this damage under collision to which they will write off the car.

[greenberet123]

Thanks! I really like the car in general, it's black with red seats and I've worked on it a lot by myself. I did a search on cars.com and I dont find anything that is under 15k, and they all have lots of miles on them.

Originally Posted by AdM1nsarEas$

How nice is your car? I ask because you can pick up a decent e93 for almost nothing these days and it may be worth exploring that option.

As far as the price you quoted, that seems ballpark for a mechanic that knows what they are doing.

[greenberet123]

Yes, but the car didn't give me an indication of low oil until I stopped . I think there was another warning about my right indicator, which is a previous problem, but it did not warm me about oil pressure until I stopped and restarted. It did not even give me a low oil notification, which it usually does when there is low oil.

You're right, looks like its gonna be part of Collision insurance. Is that bad? Will it drive me rates up a lot? Thanks!

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I think the translation is, the OP was on a gravel road, (probably) driving too fast for the conditions (i.e. a low slung sports car on a gravel road) and hit a rock imbedded in the road at speed, which knocked a hole in the aluminum oil pan. The OP ignored the low oil level notification and then the low oil pressure notification, and dropped 7 quarts of oil over some distance of travel until the engine locked up with the SES light illuminated.

Comprehensive insurance coverage might be doubtful. Collision insurance would probably apply (i.e. like running into a curb).

[greenberet123]

I looked in cars.com and was not able to find any similar cars for less than $15K, and there were very few of them. Is there another website I should be looking at?

Originally Posted by BravoJohny33

I wouldn't pay 7k for another engine because you can just buy another car for that price. You will have the chance to pick options you wish you could have the first time around. I know you said they aren't that price where you live so you should just do a nation wide search and then fly in to pick the car if it means you are going to save a few thousands.


Where does this mechanic figure 6k in labor? I just found multiple n52 engines for 750 bucks. Oh and an engine swap is not great for resale value.

[greenberet123]

You're right.

I looked in cars.com and was not able to find any similar cars for less than $15K, and there were very few of them. Is there another website I should be looking at? Where did you find the cars at a little over 7k?

Originally Posted by Tunafish

The labor is $2340 not $7k. And who knows how much money its going to take to get that $750 engine functional. The shop is also warranting their engine, how much warranty is on the $750 one? Lets not talk nonsense.

If you do a nation wide search for an e93 they start a little above 7k. Then you have the sentimental valve "my beloved car". And maybe the cars has all the options the OP already wants.. Plus 88k milage is low milage for that year. But getting other qoutes wont hurt.

[marvinstockman]

In the Washington, DC , area many larger recycling yards will sell you an engine and work with local installers to get it installed. The yard will guarantee the engine and the installation. Check around.

[Tunafish]

On cars.com but that was nation wide search. They just added one for $5000.. Never mind needs new turbos...https://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...47272&zc=89825

[Hoody007]

Originally Posted by greenberet123

You're right.

I looked in cars.com and was not able to find any similar cars for less than $15K, and there were very few of them. Is there another website I should be looking at? Where did you find the cars at a little over 7k?

Depends on the area, I suppose. It would appear there are more 335i E93s in your area vs. 328is, which is a bit interesting. None of them start anywhere close to 7K.

To replace your car you’re looking @ about 13K for a comparable replacement (https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing)


For 7K, you’re getting an N51 with a warranty, all new gaskets and seals - all of the service items likely to come up in the future. You know the service history of your car. I’d go for it.

[BravoJohny33]

Originally Posted by greenberet123

I looked in cars.com and was not able to find any similar cars for less than $15K, and there were very few of them. Is there another website I should be looking at?

autotempest.com


This is the site all those youtubers use when they find the worlds cheapest porsche. It searches every craigslist in the US, all of ebay, cars and a few other sites all at once.

[BravoJohny33]

Here is a 2011 Sport vert for 8k with 66k miles

https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/ctd...171441143.html

2009 Sport vert for 8500


https://chambana.craigslist.org/cto/...180041102.html


2008 sport vert 7500

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d...182191982.html

[Tunafish]

That 2011 is nice, listing has an error though, is says nav but car has no nav. But dealers usually dont know what all the specs.

[kart23]

Did you talk to your insurance yet? I think it should be covered under comprehensive, since it's a road hazard, not a collision where fault is involved. I don't see how they can assign fault to you in this situation unless they somehow prove you were negligent in driving the car. Look at the thread below, I think the main thing is to prove that there was no warning light on the dash, you didn't know about the hole in the oil pan or that it would cause further damage.

The insurance will try to fight you on this, because the bill is gonna be huge. Depending on which state you're in, a lot of different regulations apply. Look up comprehensive insurance laws in your state, there will also be terms and conditions in your full policy contract. They will likely want to talk to your mechanic and you need to get pictures of everything. Good luck OP

http://www.city-data.com/forum/car-i...d-engines.html

[NGEE]

Originally Posted by Hoody007

For 7K, you’re getting an N51 with a warranty, all new gaskets and seals - all of the service items likely to come up in the future. You know the service history of your car. I’d go for it.

This is my way of thinking. Option 1: Lay out $7k for basically the same car, but one you know nothing about? A $7k used car is a crap shoot.

Option 2: Lay out $7k for a car you know everything about including the fact that it has an engine with all the new bits.

I'd go option 2. Otherwise, might be time to move on and upgrade.