[Three_thirty_I]

As per the title, and hoping the knowledgeable members here can advise.

I am going to be taking my car in to a BMW ECU specialist tomorrow, and it seems like they want to test another ECU on my car for the pinging and performance issues that I am having. About 3 years ago I had a CAS fault which caused the steering lock error, this was corrected at a BMW dealer by upgrading the software, but not too long after this visit to the dealer the car started with the pinging and performance issue. At the time, the car was less than 7 years old and only had 58k km on the clock, the problems started a few months later with the car then having 63k km on the clock.

Things that make me wonder if there is a problem with the ECU are for example the engine cooling which does not seem to follow what most people see within the hidden OBD and what is mentioned on so many forum threads and PDF documents etc. Then the pinging, if everything is apparently fine with the engine and there are no error codes, why is the ECU and knock sensors not preventing the pinging?

It's not like I want to replace the costly ECU and even this test is not going to be a cheap exercise, but I have to get to the bottom of this now. I just don't know if an ECU can be faulty enough to cause these kinds of issues without there being even more severe general issues, and that elusive error code. It does pick up errors if provoked though - it picked up when I unplugged the exhaust flap to test and rule that out as being a source of the pinging/rattling noise.

I could write a book after all of the problems experienced with this car.

[thomas88162]

Have you considered testing the knock sensors? Altered coolant temperatures could be an old, sticky thermostat. I wouldn't jump to something like ECU failure just yet, although I may not know the entire story.

[Three_thirty_I]

Originally Posted by thomas88162

Have you considered testing the knock sensors? Altered coolant temperatures could be an old, sticky thermostat. I wouldn't jump to something like ECU failure just yet, although I may not know the entire story.

Am going to see what all can be tested tomorrow, but as it is, there is little reason for the engine to ping, so the knock sensors shouldn't be "relied" on, but will see. I have just replaced the thermostat with a new OEM part, and prior to this I replaced both temperature sensors, so this is why I am looking at the ECU. Just wish that if it's a sensor it would just reveal itself, one of those, "pick me, pick me", situations.

[thomas88162]

Hmm.. Okay I see why you are a little more concerned. I think it would be best to hand it over to specialists at this point; like you said it needs to be resolved and it seems beyond the scope of DIY at this point. It could even still be a simple issue, but it may be an elusive, electrical gremlin.

[MarkkyyMan]

What octane of fuel you using?

Dirty MAF sensor?

[Three_thirty_I]

Well, the car is in at an BMW ECU specialist, so will see what they can find.

Using the highest octane available locally which is 95 Unleaded. Cannot be the fuel, otherwise all other cars would be in the same boat, this thing is supposed to be able to run on even lower octane fuel if needed. Oh, and even tried a 3 Ron octane booster which made no difference either. The MAF sensor has been cleaned many times, and a few months ago I took a gamble and replaced it with a new Continental (VDO/Siemens) replacement with the same part number. Fitted, but it made either no or little change.

[leebermeister]

Hi. Any update from the ECU specialist?

[Three_thirty_I]

Originally Posted by leebermeister

Hi. Any update from the ECU specialist?

They fitted another ECU and programmed with stock software. Was definitely better in terms of less pinging, but still not entirely sorted out. The light pinging persists and the timing is definitely still being pulled back at times. The 3000 rpm dip is still there as well as other light stumbles and surges - very annoying. Performance is still there, but I do feel that it is lacking in certain instances, and while the economy is decent, it could be better on the open road. The other odd thing about this car, even after replacing the thermostat, it still runs cooler than most people observe (around 80 C versus 100 C and above). The ECU specialist insists that there is nothing wrong with my temperatures, and I have a friend with the same model (2005 330i) and his car seems to run at the same temperatures as mine. Strange car this!

[Schubee]

Hello Three_Thirty_I

I have been following your threads for months by now. I have the same car, 330i N52B30 from 09/2006 with the only difference, that my engine has been "improved…" and does not have a MAF sensor any more, only an intake temperature sensor. This is kind of a "second generation" from 09/2005 onwards as far as I know.
However a friend of mine has an E91 Touring withe N52 and he has a MAF sensor… Anyways:

Every single word and issue you have ever written about your pinging problem is the SAME with my car!!! And it was the same with my old E46 M54B22. I bought both from old persons probably driving them softly. This is the only common background.

I have also changed a lot of parts including these little oil filters just a week ago.

I am trying to get in contact with you via private message, please respond.

Anyways: if you disconnect either the:
- eccentric shaft sensor plug
- or any of the VANOS solenoid plugs, the pinging goes 100% away! Always.
But that is not a solution I know….

[Taskmaster]

Knock sensors or potentially carbon build up. Fuel pressure and injectors ok?

[Schubee]

Carbon build up is possible, since the car is from an 80 years old man. But since I bought it I drove another 35.000 km in 1 year. (ca. 22.000 miles)
Fuel pressure is 597 kPa, which is hopefully OK.

How can I test the injectors?

Parts changed:
- Plugs - NGK ILZFR6D11
- Coils - Bosch, same as oem
- VANOS solenoids
- Camshaft position sensors
- VANOS oil filters
- Intake temp. sensor
- Difference Pressure Sensor (MAP Sensor)
- Air Filter

My coolant temperature is also 75-80 Degrees after some driving.

About knock sensors:
I am afraid they can only detect engine knocking, which is a loud noise and hard as "knocking". However, pinging is a light metallic noise that you can only hear when the windows are open. I do not believe that this noise is detectable by knock sensors. If the windows are closed you won't notice anything.

Interesting is that this pinging noise goes away when VANOS or VVT is deactivated (unplugged). That's why I have changed camshaft position sensors because i thought the noise is caused by ignition timing inaccuracy.
Crankshaft position sensor may also be a possibility, but I am not sure.

[Schubee]

Regarding pinging noise. I have just had a phone call with a BMW Master Tech from Germany who I also know in person. I know a few BMW Workshops but actually he is the only one I know having the necessary knowledge.
I have tried toe confuse him, but he was bright

I summarized all of my pinging experiences which are basically really the same as those of Three_Thrity_I.

Just like with the M54B22 in the E46 and the N52B30 in my recent E90 the only measure that definitely helps is unplugging the VANOS solenoids. Period.
Since these are new and so are the camshaft pos. sensors the only part that is remaining is the VANOS actuator itself.

According to this Master Technician at BMW in Germany these actuators can also make metallic noises sounding like acceleration pinging.

It is not unbeliveable since deactivating them makes the "pinging" noise completely disappear.

@Three_Thirty_I: Could you please confirm this? (Unplug the solenoids)

[Schubee]

I have new observations.
If I disconnect only the eccentric shaft sensor the vanos is still working. So far so good.

And here it comes:

- While driving so, the heat management system is working perfectly: coolant goes up well over 100 Celsius (I saw 108 Celsius once) and the thermostat opens up only if I floor the gas pedal. And it closes immediately after it. Perfect!

- All the pinging noises are gone even on a very warm sunny day!!!

- Since the motor temperature is now higher I checked if there is more oil now in the eccentric shaft sensor. Yes there is much more oil it! This is obviously bad...

I am going to change the eccentric shaft sensor.

[Three_thirty_I]

I have been thinking about getting the timing checked and while open just replace the Eccentric shaft sensor, but I am also very close to just selling the car. Been battling with this for almost 3 years now, cannot continue with this any more - most people would have given up ages ago.

I don't think it's a carbon build up issue - the car is never subjected to short trips, and once warmed up it gets plenty opportunity to stretch its legs, so unless there is a speck of rough metal being heated up, any carbon is being burnt and cleaned out quicker than it can build up. I ran injector cleaner and octane booster in the past which made no difference.

Well, my understanding of the knock sensors is that it is there to detect pinging (also of course known as "knocking or detonation"), so this is probably why I am experiencing the dips in power since it is I gather pulling the timing back. But the cause of the pinging is what has me baffled.

I am confused about your statement saying that your N52B30 has the "improved" lack of MAF sensor but has a temperature sensor. The MAF sensor is a two part function - it has the mass air flow by means of the hot wire and thermistor. It measures the ambient air temperature, then depending on how much energy is used to maintain the heat of the hot wire this determines how much air is entering the engine. There is also a MAP sensor on the intake that measures pressure difference. But anyway, have gone down that road and ended up fitting a new MAF which didn't help.

Things I am also still considering doing: still have to replace the check valves that I bought earlier this year, and at the same time clean and swap the solenoids again, and I am also thinking about just replacing the coil packs which are the older type (2005-04/2006), and they are still the original parts.

It is just frustrating having to play the guessing game with this, and it has been a very costly affair too, money that I will never get back, not to mention the drop in value over the last 3 unhappy years of ownership. Most frustrating ownership experience I have had. No, it has never let me down or left me stuck on the side of the road, but for a premium brand car and what I paid for it at the time with the low mileage and being cared for as much as it has, it is very disappointing and as such, my faith in the brand is very very much diminished.

[Schubee]

I am going to replace the eccentric shaft sensor as soon as I get it delivered, and I will report you the effects when I am done so just wait a few days with selling your car

I mean it seriously because I had an E46 320i M54B22 that was my favourite car so far and I SOLD it almost 3 years ago because I got tired analysing the SAME pinging issues. I regret it because it was fantastic car!
Whatch this video and listen to the noise. This was my much loved E46. Is this your pinging noise too?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPppi-k-rA0

Hopefully this is not a language problem now for me but as far as I know pinging is NOT knocking. Knocking sounds indeed like knocking and it can really be lethal for the engine after some time. It sounds like a metallic knocking.

Pinging is a higher frequency noise, a brighter one. Like "valve ringing" in the video. I can not describe it better. If you just disconnect either plug I mentioned above you will notice it disappearing I bet.

As for the MAF sensor: I know exactly what it is.
After 09/2005 there was a version of N52 without MAF sensor. Mine is one of them. Everybody are surprised hearing this and nobody wants to believe it. This is my intake air temp. sensor:

http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/uploa...vxb8himygu.jpg

It costs 20 Euros instead of 200 for the MAF sensor and seats in the exact same place.
Do not be confused. BMW saved 180 Euro and made things more complicated. My DME calculates the intake air mass.

I also have the MAP sensor also called Intake Manifold Differential Pressure Sensor. I changed it without no effects.

I have to tell you, changing your thermostat would not have been necessary.
It is a map controlled one so the DME makes the decision heating it up and opening it. It has a reason, which is the LOAD.

Naturally aspirated engines calculate the load using the intake manifold vacuum. And this is the point:

I was always driving with low RPMs, since I have an automatic transmission. The thermostat opened up just like in your case and the coolant remained at 75-82 Celsius. So WHY?? I did not understand. I just disconnected the ecc. shaft sensor and my temps are just perfect 100-108 Celsius. This means that the ecc. shaft sensor must have been delivering crap to the DME. The DME believed the load is high and opened the thermostat up. My ecc. shaft sensor is full of oil so everything starts to make sense.

Changing anything else (listed above) did not have NO effect at all so save the money unless these parts are due soon.

I know your frustration as I am going through the same since 2011.

So, the way for you to continue:

Disconnect the ecc. shaft. plug.
Pinging gone?
Temps ok?

[Three_thirty_I]

I will have to think about this. It is very possible since I did have to replace the valvetronic motor at the end of 2013 due to a "plausible sluggish action" fault at which point the engine apparently went into limp mode. This was when the car was in for some tests and there was an issue with smooth running which turned out to be some dirt in the fuel rail affecting the no.1 injector. After everything was cleaned and put back together the smooth running was spot on, then out of the blue there was this limp mode with a stored fault. So I replaced the valvetronic motor and of course that was another waste of money.

To my knowledge, pinging and knocking is very much the same thing, but varies from being very light metallic to potentially being quite a bit more violent. The knock sensors are designed to pick up the onset of pinging which is generally to soft to hear with out ears. It of course then pulls the timing back instantaneously to prevent pinging. I have never been able to hear the pinging on any of the many videos that I have taken, so it is pretty light but enough for my ears to hear. My wife drives the E46 320i exactly like yours and it does have a very very light ping which she often points out, but it is not nearly as bad and there is no performance issues. I do need to replace the fuel filter/regulator which could possibly be causing that issue. But even based on your video, it sounds really bad compared to what I am hearing, and of course mine is also very much ambient temperature affected. So on cooler days the pinging is not so noticeable, but if the car has run and has been sitting for a short while, it's as if there is some heat soak that then causes the pinging to be noticeable again. On hot days it pings quite badly and you can even feel a noticeable drop in power through the lower to mid revs.

It is interesting that there is a different type of MAF or simply air temp sensor. I gather this is part of emissions for certain parts of the world since some have this and some have the regular MAF - this based on what I am seeing now on RealOEM. Your pic doesn't load, but I saw some pics on google that I suspect are the same as what you posted.

Otherwise there is nothing to suggest that my eccentric shaft sensor is faulty, no oil in the plug, and of course no errors codes (not that this means all is fine), and while the engine mostly runs fine, there is a slight variation in idle speed when paying attention to the rev counter. Not a quick jump of the needle or anything like that, just a slight engine speed change. The engine idles fairly smoothly, but you can see the gear lever vibrate lightly and to a certain degree you can feel a slight sideways vibration or roll through the body. Sometimes it is not at all noticeable, and sometimes it is. But on really hot days I have noticed that the idle speed is higher than normal - instead of the normal 650 rpm idle it sits at around 850-900 rpm. This is typically when the car also feels so lethargic and is at its worst in terms of pinging. So it is very possible that there is something wrong with this sensor.

Replacing the thermostat was due to so many people telling me that I had a temperature issue caused by a faulty thermostat. These were people at various local specialists and various BMW dealerships that I have dealt with. It took a long time for me to finally decide to replace this since I had the same questions in mind - it being DME controlled etc. But replaced it hoping to see the temperature issue resolved. If anything, it is sometimes running cooler or hotter for brief amount of time, but the overall average running temperature is much the same. So the old thermostat is indeed still good to use I reckon.

I have reservations unplugging the eccentric shaft sensor since this will store a fault, and I don't currently have a running diagnostics PC that I could use to clear faults. And certainly don't want to sell the car with stored faults.

Back to your 330i though. What exactly are you experiencing? When is it pinging and what else are you noticing in terms of performance and economy etc?

[Schubee]

Some time ago I found a PDF Document called "MSV70 Engine Electronics" but it seems not to be available for download any longer.
I attached a file as a cut off of it explaining why the N52 will not utilize a MAF sensor "in the future". Short: because MAF has an inaccuracy of +/-6% and they developed an algorithm calculating the air mass more accurately.

Everything began in my case with shifting problems of the auto transmission.
I was directly at the ZF Plant in Germany and had them changing my transmission oil. Car had only 47k km in September 2014. Everything was perfect like a dream for one single day and then problems came back.
It shifts not smoothly in the lower gears. They claimed the transmission is in perfect condition, even the old oil looked like new. So the engine should cause the shifting problems by the DME transmitting wrongly calculated load values to the EGS (transmission computer). This is plausible. Deleting adaptation values in the DME can make shiftings better for a short time period.

I checked the ecc. shaft sensor and discovered first oil in it. I disconnected it, and disconnected also the vanos and the engine behaved of course differently but I did not get rid of the shifting problems. Every day was different.
While investigating the engine deeper and deeper I discovered the problem with the coolant temperature which is also load related. Then I discovered the pinging noise and was slowly getting crazy.
- Shifting problems
- Temp problems
- Pinging noise with my second BMW too

By disconnecting the obviously leaky and therefore faulty eccentric shaft sensor two of my problems got solved: pinging noise and temperature.
So I am going to change that crap sensor. (Still waiting for delivery, it seems I will only be able to do the job on next weekend)

I also discovered that my throttle butterfly valve does not open up widely as it should during valvetronic operation. It regulates the intake air mass just like it would do in a normal engine without valvetronic. This is very odd. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PjQZDkCdsg

I am really tired guessing how this car works however I learnt a lot about it. Now I have to change that sensor because it is full of oil by now.

Anyway I have no power problems, my car has all the horses
All of my problems occur below 2500 rpm.
My DISA is working properly I checked them.

If your idle is not steady at either 650 or ca. 850 rpm and you see the needle jumping up and down that is known sign of problems with the ecc. shaft sensor. It could be getting worse after some time. Sometimes the vanos solenoids could also cause unsteady idle.

I read a case a few days ago where the guy was getting error codes pointing to a sluggish VVT-Motor. He changed it. No effect but new codes finally pointing to the sensor. And it was indeed the sensor.

[Three_thirty_I]

I actually have that PDF and a few others (seems to be a lot of similar PDF's out there). I also read that part, but it seemed a bit vague.

Of course my car is manual, so I don't have the added complication of an automatic gearbox. Driving at low speeds is not at all pleasant with this car. It is often quite jerky and if the throttle input is just a bit less than ideal the car stutters and shakes - has done this to a degree always, but definitely worse since the pinging became a problem. Also as I have mentioned, at revs below 3000 rpm with moderate to wider throttle opening in some of the lower gears I often feel lots of moderate stumbling as the car accelerates. Then at 3000 rpm or around this point there is often (not always) the annoying dip in power. My driving style is that I try to drive with economy in mind most of the time and also to save the drivetrain from unnecessary wear, so I don't use the taller gears until the car is at a proper cruising speed and basically change gears based on load and driving conditions. So it's not something silly like trying to ham-fist the engine in 6'th gear at 60kph - I actually only change to top gear once I am cruising along at 120kph just as an example.

In terms of performance, I am not saying that the car is completely down on power, if I take it through the gears with WOT is does not give me the sense that it is really all that lacking, but under normal driving conditions it doesn't feel as strong as it should in the low to mid rev range as it used to be. Our 320i for instance is far more comfortable at lower revs and doesn't suffer from the sort of stumbles that the 330i has - plus the acceleration on the 320i is completely linear, no dips or anything as it accelerates (basically lives up to the "turbine" smooth BMW six characteristic).

I will definitely be interested to see if the new eccentric shaft sensor sorts out your problems, and it could very well be what is wrong with mine. I am just shocked that the last ECU specialist tasked with trying to solve this was not able to see anything there. But then again, it was impossible trying to get them to listen to all the things that I have done, checked and researched. They even go so far as to discredit these various PDF's saying that they could just as well be fiction or simply contain incorrect information, this based on the temperature issues. They were saying that there is nothing wrong with my temperatures while EVERYONE else was saying there was. It is frustrating, and this cost me a chunk of money too.

I am still a bit unsure about the actual workings of the throttle body and the valvetronic. But I gather that on warm up cycle (and maybe during normal idle) the throttle plate is almost closed as normal. It's only once the engine load increases that the plate opens more (or completely) allowing the valvetronic to control the engine speed and output. There is that famous video of a 530i with the N52 running without its throttle body and intake, so I am not sure to be honest.

It really is a case of I wonder if even BMW knows how these engines work. LOL
If it was not for these problems, and the difficulty in tracing the faults, I think these are fantastic engines. The first year or so that I owned the car I got used to some of the quirks and found that it was really lot of fun driving the car in all types of driving conditions.

[Soul_Glo]

My ecu was replaced under warranty. My oil temperature gauge developed a blip. The ecu was sent to Germany and they found a long code after analysing it. There was no water damage to it but two tiny resistors were fried. Amazingly the car has no bogging on power and fuel economy is back. It was a shock because having owned more than 20 cars over the past years, I have never had a ecu fail. The ecu was 7 years old.

[Three_thirty_I]

Originally Posted by Broken_Gearbox

My ecu was replaced under warranty. My oil temperature gauge developed a blip. The ecu was sent to Germany and they found a long code after analysing it. There was no water damage to it but two tiny resistors were fried. Amazingly the car has no bogging on power and fuel economy is back. It was a shock because having owned more than 20 cars over the past years, I have never had a ecu fail. The ecu was 7 years old.

That's interesting, and pretty odd! Well, in my case they tested the existing ECU and no faults with it, but they also fitted another ECU and programmed, no change, so definitely something else other than ECU or software.