[Mike K]

I always wanted a 2002 after I sold my ‘73 240z back in the late 70s. Looked a few of them too but alas rust is a problem here in the salty winters of the Chicago area.

But about the year 2000, I found this 87’ e30 with the eta engine. This car rocked my world for almost 10 years. I think I paid $2500 for it and sold it for about the same. DIY several timing belts and most else too. It had a limited skip diff and ran super sweetly.

Finally rust set in. Since then, I had a few Hondas including a pretty decent Element which also enjoys great online club DIY support.

Then, I started hankering for a RWD e91 in January of 2021. I finally found this 2011 one in April in South Carolina. Still new to me, but now with plenty of my DNA on it (faulty Vanos bolts anyone?) I hope to hang on to it as long as possible. I still love that e30 and drool at nice 2002s occasionally too!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by 09Monaco335i

I plan on keeping my E90 (134K miles currently) for perhaps the next 5 years. I still love driving my 2009 335i E90 xDrive with manual transmission 12 years after I purchased it new, which is pretty amazing. I just run my car stock, with no performance mods. I spent a good amount of money this year fixing the oil pan gasket leak, replaced the coolant pump, replaced the front shocks/struts... to keep my E90 for the long-term. No other cars (in my price range) on the market really interest me currently as a replacement for my E90.

The one new car under development I'm keeping my eye on is the new Mazda 6, that hopefully will include the new inline 6 engine Mazda is developing. If Mazda comes out with an inline 6 sedan with a manual transmission option, that might tempt me to sell my E90. A car with BMW-like performance with Japanese reliability would be pretty enticing.

It is an interesting question if there still is a market for a 3-series breed sedan/coupe. The 3-series defined the classic front-engine in-line six-cylinder, rear wheel drive, manual transmission sports-sedan architecture. But that 3-series architecture didn't even arrive in the US as a BMW model until the E30 in 1985 MY, and it didn't get good until the 885 head was added to the M20 in 1987.

Lexus delved into the architecture with the original IS300 in 2001 with a manual transmission. In comparison to the 3-series the Lexus didn't sell very well, Wiki says it peaked in 2001 with just over 22,000 units. The 3-series back then probably sold easily at the hundred-thousand level. I test drove the IS in 2003 or so. It wasn't a 3-series competitor; it was a Lexus poser.

Jump to Cadillac. The ATS WAS a true 3-series competitor; it had the chassis dynamics nailed perfectly, but no in-line 6 and no torquey 6-cylinder at all with a manual transmission bolted to it (Cadillac's fatal mistake with the ATS). The Caddy turbo-4 was a decent engine for the chassis, but nothing matches an N/A in-line 6. The magazines loved the ATS dynamics but pissed on the Caddy CUE infotainment system. We all know it didn't sell well. I would have bought one if my E90 was close to giving up the ghost. When I test drove the ATS back in 2012/2013 and seriously considered replacing the E90 with one, the E90 was just over 230,000 miles back then; it's still not ready to give up the ghost some 9 years year later. I honestly think the original ATS drives a bit better than the E90, but the N52 is just a fantastic version of a Bimmer in-line 6.

So while we enthusiasts are begging for a real 3-series replacement, since BMW as basically abandoned the platform, I'm not sure Mazda can afford to offer one and make a business case for it. Americans just don't want to shift for themselves anymore because a cell phone is in their hand most of the time. Youngin's (Generation-whatever) don't even want to drive at all at this point and are willing to let a computer and fault-prone hardware to replace Mommy and Daddy driving them from place to place. Selling 20,000 units of a such a narrow platform is not a big enough market to make a viable effort. Giant GM took a shot at it and wasn't successful sales-wise; 10 years later the market has shifted even farther away from the sport sedan segment. Mazada's Japanese-car reliability aura may help a little, but probably not 40,000 to 60,000 units worth. Rear-drive sport sedan enthusiasts are a rare breed.

[E93Dude]

When I bought my E93 it was only because I was forced to sell my Boxster since I needed a back seat (baby arrived, good-bye youth...) and I did not want another rag-top. At the time the E93 was one of the very few convertible hard tops you could get with MT, so I pulled the trigger. Was not thinking at the time how long I would keep it.

10 years later, I've developed the same love/irritation relationship (mostly love) that most owners of E9X's have, having driving thousands of great miles, but also having spent thousands to keep the car in good condition. I would like something with more modern features (side traffic alert, modern head unit, back-up cam, etc.), but at the same time I like the analog interior with few distractions.

But the more important issue comes with the opportunity cost of buying a replacement vehicle. To purchase a more modern (used) in-line 3-series in the condition/mileage that I want would be well-north of upper 20K, and probably closer to upper 30's. My current car was paid off a long time ago and am not interested in having a hefty payment again. Whatever might need repair on my current vehicle is a fraction of the cost of a newer vehicle (payments, depreciation, repairs). I know the quirks of this car and how to fix most issues, so I will soldier on with what I have and enjoy it.

My only real complaints that can never be solved is that the E93 is heavier than sedan/coupe models, and the weight distribution sucks with the top down - car gets noticeably heavier in the rear (great rear tires keep me planted, thankfully, when cutting up back county curves). Secondly, the first gear is so short that I have to throw it into second quickly in order to get the torque I need to really get moving. I'm not street racing anyone, and I'll never tune the car, so its just something I live with.

[overdrivex]

I just wanted to say, I completely regret selling my e92 and hopefully in the next 3-4 years I will be in a better position to purchase another one.

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by Mike K

I always wanted a 2002 after I sold my ‘73 240z back in the late 70s. Looked a few of them too but alas rust is a problem here in the salty winters of the Chicago area.

But about the year 2000, I found this 87’ e30 with the eta engine. This car rocked my world for almost 10 years. I think I paid $2500 for it and sold it for about the same. DIY several timing belts and most else too. It had a limited skip diff and ran super sweetly.

Finally rust set in. Since then, I had a few Hondas including a pretty decent Element which also enjoys great online club DIY support.

Then, I started hankering for a RWD e91 in January of 2021. I finally found this 2011 one in April in South Carolina. Still new to me, but now with plenty of my DNA on it (faulty Vanos bolts anyone?) I hope to hang on to it as long as possible. I still love that e30 and drool at nice 2002s occasionally too!

LOL, we almost twinsies...

Bought this in the late 90s:


Eventually turned it into this:


Had that car for 15 years before selling it to a friend and replacing it with this because I needed a truck:

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Americans just don't want to shift for themselves anymore because a cell phone is in their hand most of the time. Youngin's (Generation-whatever) don't even want to drive at all at this point and are willing to let a computer and fault-prone hardware to replace Mommy and Daddy driving them from place to place.

I know its all the rage to blame everything on the "youts" but my aging parents replaced all of their manuals with autos ages ago, and all but 3 of my friends over 40 have a manual car in the stable. The ones who do have an auto as a daily (I can be included in that number). Automatics are also gaining popularity in Europe as well with CVT and DCT gearboxes becoming cheaper.

Its almost as if everyone always wanted an automatic for a daily, it was just 10% optional upcharge that people couldn't afford. The truth is NOBODY wants to row their own anymore. Probably due to the driving habits most people have. Despite loving autox, racing my bikes, being a mountain carver, etc on my off time I certainly don't think, "Man I wish I was having to clutch and shift right now" as I'm sitting in a 30 minute backup on 285 because some trucker jackknifed while reaching for his drink.

And then there are the advances that have been made. I dont think Lambo was making the Performante SMG that can run in auto because of cell phones. Its objectively faster, as is the quickshifter and auto-blipper on my motorcycle.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ryan stewart

I know its all the rage to blame everything on the "youts" but my aging parents replaced all of their manuals with autos ages ago, and all but 3 of my friends over 40 have a manual car in the stable. The ones who do have an auto as a daily (I can be included in that number). Automatics are also gaining popularity in Europe as well with CVT and DCT gearboxes becoming cheaper.

Its almost as if everyone always wanted an automatic for a daily, it was just 10% optional upcharge that people couldn't afford. The truth is NOBODY wants to row their own anymore. Probably due to the driving habits most people have. Despite loving autox, racing my bikes, being a mountain carver, etc on my off time I certainly don't think, "Man I wish I was having to clutch and shift right now" as I'm sitting in a 30 minute backup on 285 because some trucker jackknifed while reaching for his drink.

And then there are the advances that have been made. I dont think Lambo was making the Performante SMG that can run in auto because of cell phones. Its objectively faster, as is the quickshifter and auto-blipper on my motorcycle.

Well, I'm a diehard; I do. I've never driven anything but a manual my entire 1M+ driving life and I lived in the Washington DC metro area until 39 years of age. I drove professionally as a courier during college in the DMV (manual Ford Escort). For the last 14 years and over 500,000 miles, I've driven up to the Northern Virginia area to my office 85 miles and deep into Route 66 stop and go traffic (thankfully changing in a few weeks). Had knee replacement surgery of my left knee in 2012 and was back driving in heavy traffic just two weeks after surgery (the Doc said it was great PT - LOL). Been a motorcyclist since 13. Buying a new Ford Bronco BECAUSE it is offered with a manual transmission.

Never once have I ever wished I was driving an automatic. When in my H3T, which is an automatic, EVERY time I've wished it had a manual (couldn't find the rare 5-cylinder, manual version of it in late 2009).

Who really gives a shit about shift speed for a daily commuter?

Differences

[ryan stewart]

Well that's you. And no Im not saying shift speed is important for a daily commuter, if you notice it was in its own paragraph talking about a hypercar.

The only reason to row your own anymore is personal preference. Automatics have caught up in efficiency, speed (depending on application) and are much closer in cost anymore. Plus they have the huge convenience factor. They are basically like hand-crank starters at this point.

[850CSi]

I’ve had my E90 for more than 16 years now and I plan on keeping it until it dies. It’s taken blood sweat and tears to keep this thing going (and I had next to no experience turning a wrench previously!) but it’s now getting very close to where it should be mechanically. Suspension refresh next week!

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by ryan stewart

I know its all the rage to blame everything on the "youts" but my aging parents replaced all of their manuals with autos ages ago, and all but 3 of my friends over 40 have a manual car in the stable. The ones who do have an auto as a daily (I can be included in that number). Automatics are also gaining popularity in Europe as well with CVT and DCT gearboxes becoming cheaper.

Its almost as if everyone always wanted an automatic for a daily, it was just 10% optional upcharge that people couldn't afford. The truth is NOBODY wants to row their own anymore. Probably due to the driving habits most people have. Despite loving autox, racing my bikes, being a mountain carver, etc on my off time I certainly don't think, "Man I wish I was having to clutch and shift right now" as I'm sitting in a 30 minute backup on 285 because some trucker jackknifed while reaching for his drink.

And then there are the advances that have been made. I dont think Lambo was making the Performante SMG that can run in auto because of cell phones. Its objectively faster, as is the quickshifter and auto-blipper on my motorcycle.

*I* still want to row my own in my daily drivers. I have not ever bought a new car with an autotragic, and I doubt I ever will. I just won't buy new cars at all. I suffer with one automatic in my fleet because my mother can no longer drive a stick due to hip issues, and I need one car she can drive in a pinch. Otherwise I would have stalked and hunted that most elusive prey, the manual-transmission P2 Volvo V70. If you think manual e91s are rare birds... Ultimately, I don't care if they are "objectively" better and faster, they annoy the piss out of me on a regular basis.

The Volvo is such a couch on wheels that it's not THAT bad, but the automatic still annoys me, and of course it's the ONE thing on the car that actually has legit issues - really needs a solenoid replacement, but not quite badly enough for me to dig into the transmission and do it.

Of course, I also refuse to live anywhere I have to sit in miserable traffic every day. Though even then, I would rather deal with a clutch than riding the brake pedal all the time.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by 850CSi

I’ve had my E90 for more than 16 years now and I plan on keeping it until it dies. It’s taken blood sweat and tears to keep this thing going (and I had next to no experience turning a wrench previously!) but it’s now getting very close to where it should be mechanically. Suspension refresh next week!

How many miles? Because I have had mine for almost 11 years, and all I have had to do to it is a new battery and a set of tires.

Only 51K though.

[krhodes1]

BTW - all y'all singing the praises of the 3-series as a driver's car REALLY need to take an e8x 1-series for a spin. Takes the fun aspects of the e9x and cranks them up to *11*. Shorter, lighter, friskier, same motors (same almost everything, just in a tighter package). Not as practical but even more fun, and the real re-incarnation of the e30 far more than the e9x is, given the e30 had a fairly useless back seat as well. I find the e9x is more the spiritual successor to my e28s more than my e30s.

I like my convertible 128i so much I am looking for a coupe to go with it. But I will *never* part with my wagon. First love and all that. As I said before, I plan to be the first and last owner of that car. They can bury me in it.

My $.04. (inflation)

[850CSi]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

How many miles? Because I have had mine for almost 11 years, and all I have had to do to it is a new battery and a set of tires.

Only 51K though.

I’m at 173k. It would be a good amount higher but the car’s been parked for much of the last 2 years as my commute became walk/bike-able and then covid hit. Over the last couple of years I’ve done the oil pan, valve cover, clutch/flywheel, oil separator, and driveshaft… just a couple of projects to go and then I can shift focus to cosmetics and my beater 987.

[mashimarho]

I say a long time. But, it ends up being short when cash ends up on the desk.

[Biginboca]

I can’t envision any scenario where I would get rid of my E92 except it gets wrecked. I’ve spent 4 years building it into exactly what I want, and there really aren’t any affordable (sub $40k) cars that I would want to replace it with that would feel like an upgrade. I like lightweight, small cars with manual and N/A motors and don’t want to spend more than $35-40k for my play/track car.

Before Pandemic I was watching 981 cayman S prices start to dip into low 40’s. Under $40k that would be probably my next car, but those have jumped back up like everything else.

Besides, the e9x N52 cars are so easy to keep running. Parts and cheap and available and the engines running for 400k miles plus. Can’t really think of a reason to change it.

This thread needs pics btw:

[PourBoi-Jay]

I’m still toying with the idea of selling mine, after putting up a feeler over the summer. I’ve spent 6+ years, several thousands, and many man hours getting this thing exactly where I want it. It’s still a blast to drive.

I travel a lot for work, so I get to drive a ton of newer cars, but always rejoice when I get back into my E90. The steering feel, comfort, speed, and looks can’t be beat for the money. 141k miles on it so far, and still going strong.

Now contemplating upgraded snails at some point…

Pic for clicks:

[850CSi]

Originally Posted by PourBoi-Jay

I’m still toying with the idea of selling mine, after putting up a feeler over the summer. I’ve spent 6+ years, several thousands, and many man hours getting this thing exactly where I want it. It’s still a blast to drive.

I travel a lot for work, so I get to drive a ton of newer cars, but always rejoice when I get back into my E90. The steering feel, comfort, speed, and looks can’t be beat for the money. 141k miles on it so far, and still going strong.

Now contemplating upgraded snails at some point…

Pic for clicks:

that looks awesome. What % are your tints?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ryan stewart

Well that's you. And no Im not saying shift speed is important for a daily commuter, if you notice it was in its own paragraph talking about a hypercar.

The only reason to row your own anymore is personal preference. Automatics have caught up in efficiency, speed (depending on application) and are much closer in cost anymore. Plus they have the huge convenience factor. They are basically like hand-crank starters at this point.

Like hand-crank starters? Really? Bit of a stretch there.

The only thing missing from an automatic transmission, regardless of how well it shifts and how efficient it is, it still doesn't know when the driver wants to change gears. If find any automatic not knowing when I want to shift as highly inconvenient.

But that's me.

[tcphoto]

Why all the talk about "nobody wants to row through gears"? My E92 is manual and I love it, I may be a dying breed but let's not speak in such broad terms. Hell, we can beat the dead horse talking about the time bomb in the cooling systems or paper thin gaskets in all the BMW engines but enthusiasts should respect the manual transmission.

[3PedalJake]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

BTW - all y'all singing the praises of the 3-series as a driver's car REALLY need to take an e8x 1-series for a spin. Takes the fun aspects of the e9x and cranks them up to *11*. Shorter, lighter, friskier, same motors (same almost everything, just in a tighter package). Not as practical but even more fun, and the real re-incarnation of the e30 far more than the e9x is, given the e30 had a fairly useless back seat as well. I find the e9x is more the spiritual successor to my e28s more than my e30s.

I like my convertible 128i so much I am looking for a coupe to go with it. But I will *never* part with my wagon. First love and all that. As I said before, I plan to be the first and last owner of that car. They can bury me in it.

My $.04. (inflation)

I *caveat when I say the E90 is the best drivers car with the preconditions that it's the best drivers car that I can use as a regular vehicle that I can throw stuff on the back seat and that my dog can jump into easily. A sport sedan is the logical choice there, and there's no better than the E90. I wouldn't be averse to a 1 series and I'd love a E92, but that would be a pain to use the way I use mine.

The MT isn't optional. Faster shifts, easier in traffic, yada yada I don't want an AT in anything I drive. I've been stuck in traffic thinking "I can't wait till we're moving again" but never once "I wish I had an AT that would be easier". I'm sure somewhere 100 yrs ago some teamster was saying "if it doesn't have reigns and a whip you're not really driving", and he prolly had a point. I'm saying the same about AT, you're just steering a glorified go-cart. If that was my only option I welcome the advent of self driving cars, because running the gears is the fun part, just let me sleep and take me where I'm going if I can't have any fun.

[3PedalJake]

Originally Posted by tcphoto

Why all the talk about "nobody wants to row through gears"? My E92 is manual and I love it, I may be a dying breed but let's not speak in such broad terms. Hell, we can beat the dead horse talking about the time bomb in the cooling systems or paper thin gaskets in all the BMW engines but enthusiasts should respect the manual transmission.

I was called that to my face in those exact words by the Mazda salesman when I bought my 2015 6 and he had to track down the closest 6MT and have it driven in from 100 miles away dealer that had one. I know I'm out of touch with the times, I'm thankful for that every day. It's a blessing not a curse. I'd rather drive my 5MT '08 Accord than the newest ultimate driving machine they pawned off on me as a loaner the other the other day. The new cars are objectively better in every way, they're also boring as hell.

[tcphoto]

Those video game paddle shifting transmissions may be faster but whatever happened to the driver "experience" of "driving" a car? I love it because I am completely engaged and paying attention to driving the car, not like those that just want to push a button to start it, distribute the gas and brake when required, play with the stereo and cellphone when they get bored and pretend to be F1 drivers by playing with paddles from time to time.