[CraigUK]

Does anyone out on the forum have any experience of UK parking control? I was given a parking ticket from these clowns today whilst parked at the Metro centre Gateshead. To summarise I wasn't parked correctly in the parking bay ie not between the lines. Basically I couldn't see the lines whilst parking in the dark with torrential rain.

They want £60 off me, there is an appeal method but from what I've read online the best course of action is to ignore them altogether. Can anyone comment further?

[sylonien]

Ouch, well I've got two bus lane tickets cause apparently I cut across just on the last section, like 3metres and the stupid bus lane would of ended.

Tried to appeal but got rejected. Such WA***RS!

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by CraigUK

Does anyone out on the forum have any experience of UK parking control? I was given a parking ticket from these clowns today whilst parked at the Metro centre Gateshead. To summarise I wasn't parked correctly in the parking bay ie not between the lines. Basically I couldn't see the lines whilst parking in the dark with torrential rain.

They want £60 off me, there is an appeal method but from what I've read online the best course of action is to ignore them altogether. Can anyone comment further?

There was a time when chucking a private parking ticket in the bin was the sensible thing to do,and is something I've done,and advised others to do the same.

However things have changed,and private parking companies can now hold the registered keeper of the car responsible,so who was driving is in most cases an irrelevance.

It's a tough one to call now,as not paying can end up with you paying more than the £60.00,or you could ignore it and get away with it.

Yes,it's similar to how it played out before,but the private parking companies are now in a stronger position than previously,and you could be the one who ends up being one of the examples whose gamble fails.

I'd look into whether you think the ticket was fair,of course your perception of fair will no doubt be at odds with those of the company you're fighting.

Do you feel lucky?

[Jedimindtrix]

Originally Posted by CraigUK

Does anyone out on the forum have any experience of UK parking control? I was given a parking ticket from these clowns today whilst parked at the Metro centre Gateshead. To summarise I wasn't parked correctly in the parking bay ie not between the lines. Basically I couldn't see the lines whilst parking in the dark with torrential rain.

They want £60 off me, there is an appeal method but from what I've read online the best course of action is to ignore them altogether. Can anyone comment further?

Check the Pistonheads North-East section , I'm sure there was something very similar to this posted up last week and it was at the metrocentre.

I think the poster was advised to just ignore the ticket.

[1 AKY]

[/QUOTE]

There was a time when chucking a private parking ticket in the bin was the sensible thing to do,and is something I've done,and advised others to do the same.

However things have changed,and private parking companies can now hold the registered keeper of the car responsible,so who was driving is in most cases an irrelevance.

It's a tough one to call now,as not paying can end up with you paying more than the 60.00,or you could ignore it and get away with it.

Yes,it's similar to how it played out before,but the private parking companies are now in a stronger position than previously,and you could be the one who ends up being one of the examples whose gamble fails.

I'd look into whether you think the ticket was fair,of course your perception of fair will no doubt be at odds with those of the company you're fighting.

Do you feel lucky? [/QUOTE]
Amy idea what changed and when that gives these "scrotes" more power than before? Power in what way?

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by 1 AKY

Amy idea what changed and when that gives these "scrotes" more power than before? Power in what way?

Previously, when on private land it was the driver who was liable for any parking charges from private parking firms, rather than the owner.

However, as of October 2012, parking operators are allowed to hold the vehicle's keeper liable for unpaid parking charges if they don't know who the driver is and the keeper refuses, or is unable to name the driver.

The vehicle's keeper now has the option to either pay the charge, or name the driver at the time the ticket was issued, in which case the keeper will not be liable. But if it's a hire car, you'll still be responsible for any parking fines if you’ve accepted them under the hire agreement.

Only members of the British Parking Association can get the owner's details from the DVLA. In theory, firms which aren't BPA-registered can follow you home to get your address. But in practice, as non-BPA registered firms will find it harder to get hold of your details, they may not be able to chase you for a ticket at all.

If you think a non-BPA registered firm has got hold of your details unlawfully, tell the DVLA.

[CraigUK]

Thanks for the replies, I took some photos before I drove off which clearly show how faint the lines are when it's dark and wet so in theory should have a strong case for appeal. Having said that once I appeal they have all my details which is not a good thing especially if they are unscrupulous and reject it.

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by CraigUK

Thanks for the replies, I took some photos before I drove off which clearly show how faint the lines are when it's dark and wet so in theory should have a strong case for appeal. Having said that once I appeal they have all my details which is not a good thing especially if they are unscrupulous and reject it.

UK Parking Control are members of the British Parking Association,so even if you don't respond,as members of the BPA they can request your details from the DVLA,and the DVLA will give them those details.


If you are confident the photos put you in a strong position,then why not appeal?
To appeal you'll have to give them your details,so they'll have them anyway,so I'm not sure where you're going with this?

[A_P]

Originally Posted by CraigUK

Thanks for the replies, I took some photos before I drove off which clearly show how faint the lines are when it's dark and wet so in theory should have a strong case for appeal. Having said that once I appeal they have all my details which is not a good thing especially if they are unscrupulous and reject it.

Can u upload the pics?

[SteveC]

(hardly the the best source I know), only the police are allowed to issue fines for parking violations. Private companies can issue damage claims for breach of contract, in cases where parking your car on private land involves accepting terms and conditions of a contract clearly published in the car park. The damages have to be commensurate with the loss incurred.

Best is to contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau and find out if UK Parking Control has any authority to issue parking tickets.

For the most part these private parking company practices border on extortion and its important to know your rights and stand up for them.

[dobbo99]

been through similar, and my understanding is that only the local authority can formally issue you a ticket, not a private company.
i had parked slightly over a space in our car park last Xmas, and there the a private company that supposed manage the parking. they ticketed my car, but not the car next to me which was more wonky and was the reason I parked skewed in the first place.
i was away at the time time, so had 4 tickets (1 per day) when I returned.

cowboys the lot of them - http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversio...hp/t73686.html (this isnt me by the way, just an example)

I would certainly not reply to them. They sent me sooo much rubbish in the post that I asked a solictor friend to send them a letter implying they were harrasing me, and havent heard from them since (about 4 months ago).

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by SteveC

(hardly the the best source I know), only the police are allowed to issue fines for parking violations. Private companies can issue damage claims for breach of contract, in cases where parking your car on private land involves accepting terms and conditions of a contract clearly published in the car park. The damages have to be commensurate with the loss incurred.

Best is to contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau and find out if UK Parking Control has any authority to issue parking tickets.

For the most part these private parking company practices border on extortion and its important to know your rights and stand up for them.

I'm no fan of PPC's,but it's worthwhile pointing out that the law regarding parking on private land has changed,and did so in October this year.

If you venture onto the UK Parking control website, all the info is there,along with a list of bluechip companies who are clients of UKPC.

It's highly unlikely that such companies would employ UKPC as a subcontractor, without the authority to issue parking invoices for what they deem a parking offence that forms part of their terms and conditions of using the car park.

Extract from the UKPC website:

New laws

In England & Wales the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 came into force on 1st October 2012. It gives statutory authority to private parking companies, such as UK Parking Control Ltd, to obtain payment of a parking charge from the driver of a vehicle who breached our terms and conditions of parking. If we are not notified by the registered keeper of the name and address of the driver (within 28 days of requesting that information) the registered keeper must pay the parking charge.

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 states (under Schedule 4) that we can charge drivers/registered keepers (as applicable) the amount stated on our car park signage. Our parking charges comply with the guidance issued by the British Parking Association.

Any challenge against a parking charge can only be made to us within 28 days of the date of notification of the parking charge. If we reject a challenge made within 28 days the driver/registered keeper will have a further 7 days to pay the reduced amount of the parking charge. This is the last opportunity to pay the parking charge at the reduced amount. If payment is not made within 7 days the full parking charge becomes due and payable.

If we reject a challenge to a parking charge a driver/registered keeper may appeal the higher parking charge to the independent appeals service, called Parking on Private Land Appeals ("POPLA").

POPLA will consider your appeal and if it is accepted the matter will be closed, and any payment you have made us refunded in full. If your appeal is not accepted the full parking charge remains due and owing; and if payment is not made our debt recovery agents will pursue payment, (at which point a further charge will be made, as stated on our car park signage).If payment is still not made Court proceedings will be issued, at which point Court costs will be claimed. Any unpaid Court Judgment may adversely affect your credit rating.

Legal precedents

By parking at one of the car parks we manage a driver enters into a contract with us. We clearly display the appropriate terms and conditions on the signage at all our sites. As a result the parking charges we issue are enforceable in the civil courts.

A key legal precedent for England and Wales was set in 1996, in the case of Arthur v Anker. The judge ruled that Mr Arthur parked in breach of the terms and conditions prominently displayed at the site. He was liable to pay the charges levied.

A more recent precedent was set in 2008, in the case of Combined Parking Solutions ("CPS") v Stephen James Thomas. Mr Thomas tried to deny he was the person responsible for parking his car without a permit in a church car park managed by CPS. However, the judge ruled that “on the balance of probabilities” the driver was Mr Thomas, and that he had therefore knowingly entered into a contract with CPS. He was held liable to pay CPS’s charges plus interest, court fees and expenses. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 means that it will no longer be necessary to prove who the driver was, because if the registered keeper fails to identify the driver the registered keeper becomes liable to pay the parking charge.

In the Scottish courts the 2005 case of University of Edinburgh v Daniel Onifade set a legal precedent. In this case the court decided that Mr Onifade had knowingly parked in a private car park at the university on 29 occasions, without displaying a valid permit. The signage on display clearly explained that this would incur a charge of £30 per day. The judge held that Mr Onifade was liable to pay the parking charges of £870 plus interest and costs.

[rich1068]

Just to reiterate what Hotcoupe has posted, the law has indeed changed. I used to merrily file away PPC 'invoices' in the bin but I'd think twice now.

Best thing to do is ask on Pepipoo or CAG. CAG was a mine of information when I got my first private ticket.

[SteveC]

with what anyone's posted since I'm not particularly knowledgable. However I would have thought there was a difference between penalizing someone for parking on someone's private car park in contraventoin of a contract and not parking between the lines.

I would take advice before bending over

[HeavyRightFoot]

Last year I got a ticket for the same thing from Euro car parks, I received many a letter and they passed the details on to a legal company (which was also part of their group) and the letters were all very official and I was a little worried.

I didn't pay after 10-15 letters sent and they just stopped sending them and heard nothing since but I remeber reading that it is not a fine, just an invoice which you can argue to pay.

I think you will have no luck whatsoever apealing and I definately wouldn't send them proof that your car was indeed over the lines regardless of how faint they are!!!!

Not sure about the new rules but if you are going to contact them, ask them to send a picture of your car parked over a line and see if anything comes back.

[CraigUK]

I don't know if these photos will work. If they do they will show that the yellow dividing lines that were between the parking spaces have faded and cannot be seen. In addition the parking area is coloured dark green and the access road is coloured grey. The problem is when it's all covered in water to me in the dark it's very hard to distinguish between the two.

First photo is my car parked illegaly and the second is the space it was in after I moved it. Note that the silver Mini was legally parked but you'll be hard pushed to see any lines around the parking bay!

https://picasaweb.google.com/1177013...90883536711522

https://picasaweb.google.com/1177013...90911192834466

[- Paul -]

I think you have a pretty good case there Craig!

[CraigUK]

Paul, thanks for that it's alway good to get another opinion.

[HeavyRightFoot]

Originally Posted by HeavyRightFoot

I think you will have no luck whatsoever apealing and I definately wouldn't send them proof that your car was indeed over the lines regardless of how faint they are!!!!

Still this.

I have never heard of an instance where a private car park company have said "yes you have a point, we will let you off..."

It's usually "yes you have a point, but you still have to pay"
Maybe they have let people off but I have not seen an example of this but have seen lots of examples when searching on google of people appealing and then still being told they have to pay.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do though.

[CraigUK]

HeavyRightFoot, you may be right however firstly they already have their own photographs which I've viewed online so anything I can say can't make things any worse.
The parking charge states that the offence is "Not parked within the markings of the bay or space". As you can see from the photos there aren't any visible markings.

From my standpoint I'm confident that in the unlikely event that it went to a small claims court they would have no case.

[HeavyRightFoot]

Well if they have pictures mate, you got nothing to lose.

It will be highly unlikely they will take you to court so give it a go.

[rich1068]

You're mixing up how it was then (last year) and how it is now (since the law changed). 12 months ago I'd have posted the same as you re: appeals, bin it etc but it's quite different now. Not saying they're not robbing dogs, just now they're robbing dogs with a bit more clout.