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      04-17-2020, 03:57 PM   #1
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Question Base audio upgrade -> basic aftermarket setup

Hi all,

Many thanks to all for the great information on this forum about the E90’s audio configuration. I am relatively inexperienced audio wise but have learned a lot here.

On a very limited budget and my constant desire to modify BMWs, I’ve changed out my HU for a Pioneer SPH-10BT on my 2008 E91. It’s the base audio as I’ve no tweeters in the doors. I’ve retained steering wheel controls, and found a relatively decent fascia so it really doesn’t look too bad, I think?

Anyway, it’s the speaker configuration that has me a little lost and unsure what setup to go with. Bottom line = I don’t want/can’t afford an amp (to give me 6 channels) and I don’t want to re-wire anything large scale. I have no desire for an aftermarket subwoofer either.

I’ve replaced the front and rear 100mm midranges with some 100mm 3-way coaxial Pioneer speakers, using adapter plates and retaining original connectors (specs below). As I understand the front midranges are connected in parallel to the underseat woofers, I have disconnected the underseats by unplugging the connection (2-wire as pre-09) allowing all power to go to the new front speakers. I was concerned running the new speakers in parallel with the underseats due to the impedance reduction. I understand the OE mids have a built in capacitor and utilise a filter via the OE HU to protect the 4 speakers on the 2 L&R front channels (hence why I decided to disconnect the underseats).

Anyway the sound is ok but not great, probably to be expected from running 4 x 10cm speakers. Dare I say original sound is better. I have experimented with EQ and I’ll get it better but I think I need to add in something with a bit more bass power.

So a little advice needed. I’m thinking I could disconnect the rear 100mm speakers and re-route wiring to underseats where I would install a pair of 200mm full range 3-way coaxial speakers using MDF adapter plates. This would probably give me a much better overall setup? Maybe I should have ignored the rears in the first place.

Or can I do anything with the currently unused RCA pre-outs? Or the final option to consider is to plug back in the underseats and see if the new 100mm fronts operate ok on reduced power/2 ohm impedance? Any tips / advice welcome!
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      04-20-2020, 09:57 AM   #2
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The silence speaks volumes!

I've come to the realisation that I'm just not going to get the desired effect by dropping in a new HU & speakers. Gone are the days when a set of 6x9's could be added to the parcel shelf and voila, sound is transformed!

Based on the factory setup, in particular the parallel connection between the front door and underseats, and the 6 speaker configuration, an amp appears pretty much mandatory. Running 4 x 4" speakers alone will never cut it. I know 8" full range speakers won't fit in the stock underseat enclosures also, so I'm going to see what I can get in there. I may consider some 6.5" speakers w/ MDF plates as I won't allow budget to stretch to a full 8" custom woofers like Vibe or SWS-8.

I've decided to pick up a compact 4-channel amp (Pioneer GM-D1004) and power the 2 x front doors and 2x underseat speakers off that, and allow the headunit to power the 2 x remaining rear speakers (don't need much power for them anyway). I'll run new speaker wire from the underseats and front doors instead of tapping the originals, as I believe there's a capacitor/resistor in the stock wiring somewhere also (based on this post). I've seen the built-in capacitor in the front door speakers too, so I just don't like how the original setup is operated. All electric trickery.

Anyway here's a couple of pics of the new setup. Headunit is cheap but full of features; bluetooth, handsfree phone, USB and the phone connects via an app also to run maps, display information etc. The built in cradle is a neat touch, and adds a bit of screen real estate. All the speaker adapter plates, steering wheel interface, ISO loom/aerial adapter were Connects2, and thanks to them and the speaker adapters pictured below, I didn't modify any original wiring at all. Thanks again to all the contributors on the forum that have got me this far.
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      04-20-2020, 11:42 AM   #3
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The reason why the silence is deafening is because the base audio
question is one of the most answered questions here.

You were already on a path of your own solution and choices not really asking questions.

Last edited by ctuna; 04-20-2020 at 02:45 PM..
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      04-20-2020, 03:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
The reason why the silence is deafening is because the base audio
question is one of the most answered questions here.

You were already on a path of your own solution and choices not really asking questions.
Yeah, fair enough but at least I didn’t get 40+ links thrown at me to read - that has to count for something, right?

I guess it’s half a build thread, half winging the install. I’m going to rename the thread to “My cheap and nasty sub-£300 base audio build - tips/advice/criticism sort of welcome...”

The goal: achieve marginally better audio than stock, most likely regretting my decisions, and documenting it to a discerning online audience. Stay tuned!
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      04-20-2020, 04:09 PM   #5
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I am surprised it didn't turn out better.
Not replacing the under seats with 8 inchers powered
of an amp is probably the biggest weak spot.
If the doors are still in parallel with the floors it's stressing
head unit only power but so was the OEM system.

Last edited by ctuna; 04-20-2020 at 05:51 PM..
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      04-20-2020, 04:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
I am surprised it didn't turn out better.
Not replacing the under seats with 8 inchers powered
of an amp if probably the biggest weak spot.
If the doors are still in parallel with the floors it's stressing
head unit only power but so was the OEM system.
Don't tempt me! The headunit, amp and speakers collectively have cost less than a new set of those 8" custom-fit subs... I really am cheaping out here. Thanks though; appreciate the input.

Ah I'm probably not giving the current setup enough credit. There's a LOT of sound customisation via the HU, there's a 31-band EQ, dynamic bass enhancer, sound retriever, loudness, something called Super Todoroki and then HPF and LPF adjustments for freq, slope, phase, gain for each channel (including a 5th SUB channel setting, which did affect sound also). I found a lot of overlap in audio settings which overcomplicated my basic understanding.

I plugged back in OE underseats and ran with the new F&R 4" speakers, I got it sounding quite nice (with more clarity/treble than I've ever heard vs OE) but then the bass was distorted on several songs. I struggled to find the best balance on the front channels (as they were running both underseats and doors) - it either sounded anaemic with no bass distortion or a nice full sound but bass distorted. I got fed up, and decided something had to change, hence post #2 on this thread...
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      04-20-2020, 05:50 PM   #7
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Ok dirty trick number one forget about the rear speakers
and route the rear channels to the under seats so the Front
and Rear channel power is split between the Front Doors and
Floors.
You could probably get some Hi Fi underseats pretty cheap.

There is nothing custom about the speakers you mentioned for
the under seats they are pretty much plug and play though.
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      04-21-2020, 11:14 AM   #8
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Why not replace your underseat subs with the pioneer slim line?
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      04-21-2020, 05:38 PM   #9
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Thanks for the replies. Yes, it seems the rear speakers are very low priority overall so that’s definitely a consideration. Although with the compact 4-channel amp I’ve decided to install I’m happy to leave the rears going to the HU. Can’t really find any HiFi underseats for sale where I’m based.

I’ve never had subs in the past and I’ve been pretty happy with the sound (and bass) from a simple 4-speaker setup of relatively decent quality. I remember being quite content with the bass level from a 5.25” set in the front doors + 6x9s on the rear shelf of Alpine Type G/R speakers. Maybe I’m easily pleased!

Are these the slim Pioneers? They look nice but that’s the price each and my 4-channel amp would only just about run them alone? And I’d be left running my front doors off the HU. I think I’d at least like to run the fronts from the new amp. Correct me if I’ve got this wrong.

I haven’t seen anyone fitting moderately decent powered coaxials in the underseats (probably for good reason) but I’m genuinely tempted in getting some of these Ground Zero 6.5” shallow coaxial speakers and these 6.5” MDF frames which allow me to drop in the speakers to the OE enclosures. They are only 44mm deep unlike most other 6.5” speakers which just wouldn’t fit due to depth restrictions. There are no suitable 8” coaxials that I can see. Both speakers + frames cost less than even 1 underseat sub... So how much am I likely to regret it if I go this path? I’d still come in under my budget and I get to mess around with the car (which is half the reason I’m doing this anyway).
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      04-21-2020, 05:59 PM   #10
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do you want my opinion? it may be a little insulting but i'm NOT here for this .... but to say a MY better solution
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      04-21-2020, 06:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92x7z View Post
do you want my opinion? it may be a little insulting but i'm NOT here for this .... but to say a MY better solution
Go for it, I'll accept the criticism! I'm effectively thinking out loud here anyway. But thankfully as it stands all I've done is changed the HU and swapped out the door speakers, with zero irreversible modifications at very little expense. And I'm still open to all suggestions...
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      04-21-2020, 08:28 PM   #12
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the car is poorly stocked and not very good at pouring a lot of money....
but my opinion is this I've been looking a lot for this one GM-D1004 as far as i remember there was no setting to GAIN ....

first return Alpine CD73 coding it to HI FI after buy and install this Plug and play dsp amp http://www.axton.de/verstaerker-2/sm...90dsp/?lang=en this is analog to BLAM / Emphaser / and more smart DSP PP with Sigma CPU and low price ... sell you HU and this pioneer ... (the little amp is nice nowhere have I read anything bad about it I just don't remember if the RCА out )
it's just not good to lose stock HU
and underseat there is no place for coaxial speaker ...

see this HU instal https://www.drive2.ru/l/457381994821622468/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_TEyo-DiAQ&t=2031s

Last edited by E92x7z; 04-21-2020 at 08:36 PM..
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      04-22-2020, 10:25 AM   #13
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Base audio upgrade -> basic aftermarket setup

Thanks for the input. OK, there's clearly strong opposition for my coaxial underseat idea! Would you go as far to say that even the stock base underseat subs would be better than doing that? Then like ctuna mentioned above I could look for some HiFi underseats, eBay might be my best bet.

The Axton A590DSP you mentioned is very nice of course but best price I can find is €270. I've managed to pick up the Pioneer GM-D1004 for £60. Yes gain is fixed according to spec but I have speaker level adjustments via the HU, any use? I will be connecting the amp via the 4 low level RCA plugs on the HU. The amp appears to be 2ohm stable also, so if I get the HiFi underseats they'll be ok (I believe they are 2ohm vs the base audio which are 4ohm).
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      04-22-2020, 11:37 AM   #14
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IN general coaxes are kind of a stinky solution for anything.
But especially for low frequency s.

all Hi Fi speaker sets are 2 ohm.
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      04-22-2020, 05:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
IN general coaxes are kind of a stinky solution for anything.
But especially for low frequency s.

all Hi Fi speaker sets are 2 ohm.
Yep, fair enough, I'll leave the coaxials for the doors only. If I manage to find a pair of HiFi underseats and run them off the Pioneer amp (spec states it outputs 45W RMS @ 2ohms), they won't blow up on me will they?

I guess there's a better chance of the HiFi underseats surviving vs the original base underseats anyway!

The front door speakers are only 30W RMS though so I might have to upgrade those also to a slightly more powerful set. Thankfully they were only £20 for the pair; that's the only potential financial casualty so far!
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      04-22-2020, 05:13 PM   #16
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under seat i have Gladen Extreme kit 150 RMS 2 ohm ...
MB quart standart kit 4 ohm 100 RMS .... I can say that there is no difference in quality only in Power
the minimum and best choice for the front doors is a 50 RMS rear 40 RMS coaxial ..

you just need a good under seat amplifier this pioneer only for front and rear ...
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      04-29-2020, 07:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92x7z View Post
under seat i have Gladen Extreme kit 150 RMS 2 ohm ...
MB quart standart kit 4 ohm 100 RMS .... I can say that there is no difference in quality only in Power
the minimum and best choice for the front doors is a 50 RMS rear 40 RMS coaxial ..

you just need a good under seat amplifier this pioneer only for front and rear ...
Thanks for the info, although I'm going to try and run the HiFi underseats and fronts off the amp, and the rear speakers from the Pioneer HU - if it's possible, need some advice on this.

So I picked up a set of HiFi underseats for cheaper than a set of coaxials and speaker adapters, thanks Ctuna. Although they are 2ohms as highlighted above so definitely can't run them in parallel with the front doors now.

My issue is I can connect the 4-channel amp to the HU by either RCA cables or speaker line inputs (which run into an ISO block). The 'problem' is that everything is plug and play - see picture. Ideally I would have liked to power the rear speakers by the headunit and run the 2 underseats and 2 fronts with the 4ch amp.

I'm sure there's a couple of ways I can do this, that will involve tapping the factory wires at some point. Can anyone assist in how I can approach this? If I can't figure it out worst case scenario is just run the 4ch amp with stock wiring, split the front and underseats and disconnect the rears.
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      04-29-2020, 08:31 AM   #18
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look here + sub


but мmy option is a get this get aftermarket bmw T iso harness in order to extend the connection and from there to take the color level of the cable in the clip below is described and is a car like ours




Fat blue cable is a Front line !
View post on imgur.com


cover the speaker box with dumping insulation

Last edited by E92x7z; 04-29-2020 at 10:57 AM..
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      04-29-2020, 12:37 PM   #19
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Base system has the Front doors and Floors connected in parallel.
How this is done depends on the year of the car.
Earlier cars had the connection in the door sills later cars
had it at the underseat connector , you can tell by 2 wires
at the underseats for the earlier cars and 4 wires at the connector
for the later cars. Doing the connection is described for both
cars in the Alpine upgrade pdf

base system wiring pre/post 3/09
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tDpLJPcGkw_ui_
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1411521234

Technicpnp makes 3 different harness kit options for the BASE system.
If you have one of the earlier cars, pre 3/09, you will have to deal with
the parallel split in the door sills. (see pdf)
One of technic kits is designed to do the fronts powered and the rear off
the radio.

That guy in the video has a real messy solution and it doesn't take care of the
eq problem. There are a lot of Hi /Lo adpaters and most amps don't need
one at they take speaker outs.
Radio Shack ist kaput. At least in the US.

If you are using and aftermarket head unit you shouldn't have to worry about
speaker out's as it should have low level rca's and the eq should be good.

Last edited by ctuna; 04-29-2020 at 01:26 PM..
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