Sponsored by The Tire Rack

[myzmak]

So I had earlier posted about some problems with some tires/rims.

(http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721368)

Here is where I am:

- driving 2009 238xi
- purchased some OEM 220M rims - they are 19x8.5 and 19.9.5
- for this car, tire size calculators said get 225/35R19 front and 255/30R19 rear (OEM tires were 205/55R16 all around)
- that is also the size noted in the manual with my car for 19" rims
- So I did - got P-Zero RFTs. WHICH (according to specs on Tirerack) should work with rims of this size (ie: this isn't a 'stretched' look - the tires are spec'ed to work with rims of this width, albeit this isn't the 'standard' width of rim...those would be about 0.5" less for each rim...but this is still in the range).

Once new tires on, had some leaking issues (earlier post).

After a couple trips to tire shop, they put on some bead sealer and all seemed to be working well for last 3 weeks.


...until today when, lo and behold, TPMS goes off and its the old problem of air just leaking.

Now the tire shop is saying "this will be a constant problem because of 'stretching issues' and I should get wider tires or higher sidewall" - of course, that isn't going to work as then I'll be off-size by way more than 1% and it will screw up speedometer (and, from some posts i've seen here, also potentially mess up the AWD / Xi system). ...not to mention that I already have tires that have been running a bit (though probably less than 500km) so its a bit hard to get rid of them now....

So, question:

- is this just bad installation from tire shop? Will another tire shop do a better job of getting these on so they don't leak?

OR should I realize this will be a constant problem and then ditch rims (since i cant really ditch the rubber as easily).

Help. Please.

[Ryan T]

I think you're getting fed a line of bull. You can get a 255/40/19 on the back of a stock 335i. There's no way BMW would put those tires on a 9" wide wheel if adding an extra 1/2 inch of wheel width would cause problems with seating the bead.

I couldn't find any specs from Pirelli because their website sucks, but Nitto recommends anywhere from an 8.5" to a 10.0" wide wheel for their 255/40/19's. I know they're different tires, but if Nitto says a 10" is perfectly okay for a 255, why would your tire shop try to tell you you're stretching a 255 onto a 9.5" wheel? Hell, they even say a 235/35/19 would be fine to mount on a 9.5" wheel.

Where in Canada are you located? I think it's time to find a new shop, and maybe figure out if you have some defective tires.

[MonacoBlueE90]

I have 235 on 9.5 wheel and it doesn´t leak. Its not the "stretch" that makes your tyres leak, maybe tyres or wheels are damaged some way.

[VMRWheels]

Originally Posted by MonacoBlueE90

I have 235 on 9.5 wheel and it doesn´t leak. Its not the "stretch" that makes your tyres leak, maybe tyres or wheels are damaged some way.

^^Yup. Maybe the tires are damaged where it beads onto the wheel. Are all 4 leaking?

This sometimes happens to tires when installing/uninstalling. If you have a tiny tear in the tire, it won't bead correctly and slowly leak.

[myzmak]

I couldn't find any specs from Pirelli because their website sucks, but Nitto recommends anywhere from an 8.5" to a 10.0" wide wheel for their 255/40/19's. I know they're different tires, but if Nitto says a 10" is perfectly okay for a 255, why would your tire shop try to tell you you're stretching a 255 onto a 9.5" wheel? Hell, they even say a 235/35/19 would be fine to mount on a 9.5" wheel.

Where in Canada are you located? I think it's time to find a new shop, and maybe figure out if you have some defective tires.

I am in Calgary.

Here are specs from Tirerack (agree: Pirelli website is brutal for lack of info)

Front:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....FTXL&tab=Sizes


Back:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....FTXL&tab=Specs

Clearly my 8.5" front and 9.5" wide backs are good.

^^Yup. Maybe the tires are damaged where it beads onto the wheel. Are all 4 leaking?

This sometimes happens to tires when installing/uninstalling. If you have a tiny tear in the tire, it won't bead correctly and slowly leak

No, just the back 2. Originally back left and we *thought* the leak was from right under the bar code sticker. then the back right.

Tires were brand new, so could be damage during install. If this happens again we have another shop we'll take them to to check it out.

(frankly, as I mentioned in the other thread, we didn't exactly get the 'A-Team' during the install - when I got home from the shop and the first tire was leaking I checked all 4 for pressure and found that the shop had inflated the back right to 80 PSI!!!!! Eighty! like I was riding in the tour de france!)

Thanks for the info team.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by VMRWheels

^^Yup. Maybe the tires are damaged where it beads onto the wheel. Are all 4 leaking?

This sometimes happens to tires when installing/uninstalling. If you have a tiny tear in the tire, it won't bead correctly and slowly leak.

AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN!!!!!

it happened AGAIN today (after we picked up yesterday and they were all 'should be good now....' - this morning, back right down to 18 PSI)

NOW have it at new shop, as expected their initial guess was "these guys didnt know what they were doing and damaged the bead" - we'll see if possible to repair.

$#!$!@#$@%!#$%!#$%#$%!#%!#$%!#%^^!!!!!!

[kar40980]

Vulcanization of the bead?

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by kar40980

Vulcanization of the bead?

meaning......?

[kar40980]

I know some tire shops repair tires by process of vulcanization.
Maby they can do that to a bead, not sure but after reading your post the tought came to mind. Ask around, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, good luck.

[skylineguv]

Which tire shop did the original (and subsequent) fitting prior to visiting the new shop?
I'm with everyone else here in that it was an install problem in the first case. I've run narrower tires on the same with wheel a number of times before and had zero leakage issues.

FWIW, although there are a couple of seemingly respected tire shops in town, I always have (and likely will continue to) use Tunerworks as they have treated me well.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by skylineguv

Which tire shop did the original (and subsequent) fitting prior to visiting the new shop?
I'm with everyone else here in that it was an install problem in the first case. I've run narrower tires on the same with wheel a number of times before and had zero leakage issues.

FWIW, although there are a couple of seemingly respected tire shops in town, I always have (and likely will continue to) use Tunerworks as they have treated me well.

yeah, i actually got the car from Kulu (right next door to Tunerworks)....shoulda gone there. I went to tirecraft (formerly Big O) - I know the owners, great guys and they've handled other stuff for me before but this one seems like it has just got away on them.

Anyway, the shop I had 'em at yesterday (Fountain Tire) said 'we dont want to take them off because we think they are damaged and we dont want to be blamed for it' so...back to the original shop they went. We'll see where we get to today, but the last word I heard from them when I was dropping them off last night was that the issues are (a) very low profile; and (b) RFTs (meaning the stiff, small sidewall is hard to set).

I dunno - 2 other shops in town have told me "yeah, they are tight and a pain to get on, but they'll go on and you shouldnt be having problems like leaking once a week". I'm inclined to agree with them....I think this install was just a bit too unusual for my usual guys and they didnt back out when they should have and now we have a problem.

I can say this: i sure am getting #$!#$!!#% tired of only ever driving my car to and from the same damn tire shop.

[myzmak]

yeah. lo and behold, the leaky tire was damaged. now we'll have to figure out who is paying for the new one.....and i'll have to figure out where i'm getting it installed.

(ps - if anyone has a view on whether the fact that these are RFT makes this installation impossible....i'd appreciate hearing from you)

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by skylineguv

Which tire shop did the original (and subsequent) fitting prior to visiting the new shop?
I'm with everyone else here in that it was an install problem in the first case. I've run narrower tires on the same with wheel a number of times before and had zero leakage issues.

FWIW, although there are a couple of seemingly respected tire shops in town, I always have (and likely will continue to) use Tunerworks as they have treated me well.

so just in the interests of updating old complaints, new tire finally arrived last week (yes...took a month....dont ask) went on wednesday and by saturday am....#*}+]+{^{*}%{*{^%%[[[]^^#*#+#+}=! leakimg again.

so we're done there now. i'm sure they damaged it again. now i'm going to tunerworks to get it done right. this has been unbelievable.

[myzmak]

For any sadists out there, check out the picture of what the most recently installed tire looked like after removal....

OMFG.

[skylineguv]

Hmmm, wonder why it was losing air?!

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by skylineguv

Hmmm, wonder why it was losing air?!

no kidding. the 3" piece of missing tire might explain it...

my guess is that pirelli did not intend those tires to look that way upon installation. frustrating as hell this has been....oh well. only a wasted $2000 set of tires....(christ).

[Erockdaface234]

Have u checked the rim at all for a crack 220m wheels tend to crack and bend my buddy had his replaced a few times because of this

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Erockdaface234

Have u checked the rim at all for a crack 220m wheels tend to crack and bend my buddy had his replaced a few times because of this

with all the time the wheels have been 'off' while tires getting replaced, i havent even driven the rims enough to crack them....

all 4 tires are damaged, as confirmed by tunerworks. the photo above is the most damaged one. i did not some 'dings' on that particular rim from the poor installation.

big fun coming up in speaking to installing shop about how they kind of ruined $2k worth of tires and dinged up some rims in process.

[skylineguv]

Originally Posted by myzmak

with all the time the wheels have been 'off' while tires getting replaced, i havent even driven the rims enough to crack them....

all 4 tires are damaged, as confirmed by tunerworks. the photo above is the most damaged one. i did not some 'dings' on that particular rim from the poor installation.

big fun coming up in speaking to installing shop about how they kind of ruined $2k worth of tires and dinged up some rims in process.

Sounds like it's getting more costly by the day. Now you're in the position that you'll get next to no use out of them before the snow starts to fly

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by skylineguv

Sounds like it's getting more costly by the day. Now you're in the position that you'll get next to no use out of them before the snow starts to fly

yeah, that i resolved myself to saturday. oh well...gives me time to rethink the setup and get it right.

lesson learned: keep friends and service separate.