[cb1111]

Originally Posted by DJKhan85

I'm a big fan of long oil change intervals. I used to regularly go 7.5k to 10k miles on previous vehicles and not bat an eye lash. I would go to the recommended 15k on this car too but I drive it hard, longer and farther than any car before it. The whole turbo thing throws a whole new dynamic into the equation. Also call me paranoid but I don't see it in BMW's best interest to make these engines run forever.

Forever is relative;

You frequently see these cars with 500k+kms on European roads. Europe runs on 30k km oil change intervals

[742]

Originally Posted by cb1111

Forever is relative;

You frequently see these cars with 500k+kms on European roads. Europe runs on 30k km oil change intervals

Europe runs on 30k OCIs now, but the cars with 500k+, being older, did not get there on that OCI. Europe also has better fuel and a (generally) milder climate. And these appear to be the reasons that BMW has instituted yearly low mileage oil changes and blocked the use of LL04 oils only in North America. Clearly there is something in North America that is more harsh than what our European cousins are dealing with.

What the few long OCI oil analysis reports that have been posted show is OK oil at 10k miles and pretty ugly oil at 15k miles. So while the limited data in the public domain does not support 3k fanatical oil changes, it does give reason to look upon the current OCI with a jaundiced eye. A reasonable person could look at the 15k analysis results and conclude that it is a step, but probably just one step, too far.

It took 7 years for the VW/Audi 1.8T problems to become obvious, so 2013 is when we might put this issue to bed.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by 742

Europe runs on 30k OCIs now, but the cars with 500k+, being older, did not get there on that OCI. Europe also has better fuel and a (generally) milder climate. And these appear to be the reasons that BMW has instituted yearly low mileage oil changes and blocked the use of LL04 oils only in North America. Clearly there is something in North America that is more harsh than what our European cousins are dealing with.

What the few long OCI oil analysis reports that have been posted show is OK oil at 10k miles and pretty ugly oil at 15k miles. So while the limited data in the public domain does not support 3k fanatical oil changes, it does give reason to look upon the current OCI with a jaundiced eye. A reasonable person could look at the 15k analysis results and conclude that it is a step, but probably just one step, too far.

It took 7 years for the VW/Audi 1.8T problems to become obvious, so 2013 is when we might put this issue to bed.

We are in agrement with one minor exception. Europe has been on LL oils and the 30k km OCI since 2001, so there are plenty of cars running on that interval with 500k kms.

That said, there is something in North America that is different and perhaps only time will tell.

[IN54NITY]

Hey cb1111, I'm looking for a spicy brake fluid, do you sell that?

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by aleckzandr

Hey cb1111, I'm looking for a spicy brake fluid, do you sell that?

Sure. It meets all of the DOT666 specs.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by 742

Europe runs on 30k OCIs now, but the cars with 500k+, being older, did not get there on that OCI. Europe also has better fuel and a (generally) milder climate. And these appear to be the reasons that BMW has instituted yearly low mileage oil changes and blocked the use of LL04 oils only in North America. Clearly there is something in North America that is more harsh than what our European cousins are dealing with.

What the few long OCI oil analysis reports that have been posted show is OK oil at 10k miles and pretty ugly oil at 15k miles. So while the limited data in the public domain does not support 3k fanatical oil changes, it does give reason to look upon the current OCI with a jaundiced eye. A reasonable person could look at the 15k analysis results and conclude that it is a step, but probably just one step, too far.

It took 7 years for the VW/Audi 1.8T problems to become obvious, so 2013 is when we might put this issue to bed.

I've got over 7 years worth of mileage (120K) on my car, no problems yet.

[iflyjetzzz]

Originally Posted by scrufy

Then your wasting your money- plain and simple synthetic oil is NOT the same as the petrol based stuff you are used to. It does not break down and lose viscosity like conventional oil. Average changes reccomended by many manufacturers is up to 25k miles. you can change it all you want but it won't be any better.
as for the initial change, yes you need to change the oil at somewhere between 500 and 1500 miles. this is simply to "wash" all the milling shavings out from the new motor. Sometimes there is stuff in there that doesn't get cleaned out. thats all it is... And ... fyi. Ive built more motors than I care to even mention... So I know where Im coming from on this...

I'm not worried about the oil breaking down between changes. I'm concerned about the contaminants in the oil which is why I will change my oil more frequently than 15K miles.

[iflyjetzzz]

I just changed the oil on my 328i. It was very dirty; I realize that you can't tell if the oil's breaking down (not my concern) but it looked like there were a lot of contaminants in the oil.
The car had just over 11K since the last change 13 months ago (dealer wouldn't change it yesterday due to 1 Sep guidance). The car sat on a dealer's lot for almost three months and was driven less than 100 miles.
The oil service reads another 4000 miles until it's due for a change. That's fine; after the last warranty oil change (The car has 41K miles), I plan on changing the oil myself every 7500 miles. Excessive? Maybe, but it's not that expensive to change your oil - I spent less than $60 to do it myself, including lift fees at the auto hobby shop. I'm not happy about not having a dipstick though, especially since it took ~5 minutes for the computer to figure out my oil level.

[IFX]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Oil is usually "scary black" after about 500 miles. You can't make many conclusions based on that.

500 Miles? Are you nuts?


I changed my own oil on my e46M about 3k ago, checked the oil and it's literally still yellow. Not a trace of black...

[iflyjetzzz]

IFX, I missed that quote. I've changed oil on cars for 35+ years. If the oil's black in 500 miles, I can only assume that the oil at the last change was scary, scary black and the fresh oil was colored by residual oil from the last change.

Clean at 3K's good; you take good care of your car.

[STE92VE]

Originally Posted by chromisdesigns

They can't retroactively change your warranty! You get what the warranty / maintenance service was at the time you purchased the car. It's called a contract!

Originally Posted by cb1111

They didn't change your warranty. As long as they don't change that then they can change the "free" services all they like.

This is the larger issue here and not whether less or more frequent oil changes are your personal preferences or how you use your vehicle.

I agree with chromisdesigns & disagree with cb1111.

When making a decision to purchase a vehicle, there are many factors that are considered. BMW NA uses "no-cost maintenance" as a tool to attract potential buyers to BMW and away from the competition. If you bought your BMW with the understanding that you would receive an oil change at least once a year for up to 4 years, then BMW NA should honor that commitment.

Recently @ BMW, like all other manufacturing concerns, cost cutting has trumped customer relations. BMW has eliminated sound/heat insulation from our hoods, hinged covers on our ashtray compartments, tinted bands on our windshields, etc.

The reasoning that is shoved down our throats is that BMW knows what's best for our cars, just trust us. That's a lot of and just another way of saying we're trying to increase revenue.

Believe it or not, the service managers are in our court. The dealership makes money from every service that is performed. Less oil changes, less revenue for them. In fact, today when I picked up my E92 for it's scheduled service, I discussed this issue of BMW NA refusing to do low mileage oil changes with my SA. He said we should all contact BMW NA and voice our displeasure with these new rules. I told him I've done that before on other issues and received good results. We all must write letters to BMW NA voicing our displeasure with this change of policy.

As mentioned previously, if they want to make 9/1/10 the effective date of this policy for new vehicles, I think most of us would be OK with that. For the rest of us who have the balance of their 4 year "no-cost maintenance", the previous policy should remain in force.

[JackMac]

Agree with STE92VE, this should be grandfathered and not retroactive.

Cars with 7K annual miles do not get the oil change, while cars with 5K annual miles do get the oil change? What is the rationale for that? It just confuses this matter even further.

[LEDZEP]

Originally Posted by cb1111

Actually, most of these answers are partially correct.

All modern BMW's have condition based services where the car's computer calculates when to do services such as oil changes. Depending on your driving style, your car will tell you to get an oil change somewhere betwen 14k and 18k miles (mine was at about 17k miles.)

If you drive far fewer miles, then you'll be authorized an oil change every year.

So - it is once a year or whenever the car tells you - whichever comes first.

The oil change interval is partially time based, but the majority of the calculation done is based on the number of gallons consumed. This basically is the same as saying "driving habits", but the actual math is done based on gallons of fuel.

Having read the service bulletin, it seems that point two now only applies in very limited circumstances. So, if you drive 6,001 miles per year you might actually go three years before your first service.

[LEDZEP]

Also agree with Steve. BMW has proudly marketed "Four years free maintenance" for quite some time, and I believe they still do. Having had "annual low mileage" oil changes done in the past, I too would be losing a benefit of ownership that, if not promised, was strongly implied.

I would agree that a letter to BMW NA would be the best action - but let's not get our hopes up.

It's really not even about whether the cars *need* an annual change, but the perception that what was promised is being taken away.

[sleepyx637]

i smell a class action suit

[NaTuReB0Y]

Originally Posted by IFX

I changed my own oil on my e46M about 3k ago, checked the oil and it's literally still yellow. Not a trace of black...

yeah........and monkeys fly out of my ass

[dhnew81509]

You mean people actually use this free maintenance program for oil changes?? I don't know why anyone wouldn't change their own oil. I'll change mine every 5k and save myself a trip to the dealership and a 1-2hr wait in the lobby.

[LEDZEP]

Originally Posted by dhnew81509

You mean people actually use this free maintenance program for oil changes?? I don't know why anyone wouldn't change their own oil. I'll change mine every 5k and save myself a trip to the dealership and a 1-2hr wait in the lobby.

My dealership gives me a choice of pick up and delivery, or a loaner. Also, there are other service items done during the visit, and such things as fluid fillups and new wiper blades, etc.

[STE92VE]

BMW NA has succeeded in creating an unsatisfied customer. (I'm sure most of your jaws are dropping in disbelief that how could they let that happen)

While filling out the questionnaire regarding my service experience, there was a space allotted for additional comments and the option to tick a check box if you would like someone from corporate BMW NA to respond to you. So, I briefly stated my feelings on the new oil change policy and checked that I want some one to contact me.

A CSR called me today to explain that after many years of research, BMW technicians have determined that the factory recommended service is the new policy (less than 6000 miles-more than 15000) and that nothing has changed regarding the factory recommended "no-cost" maintenance plan. I told him my views but like speaking to a robot, he kept repeating that nothing has changed and I still am entitled to factory recommended "no-cost" scheduled maintenance during the warranty period.

BMW NA decided not to put out a general announcement because they couldn't determine the # of people that would be affected by the change in recommended service and therefore allow the service centers to notify unsuspecting customers when they come in. I told him this was a reason (not the exact language but that is the gist) and they know exactly who this affects. After several minutes of frustration, I mentioned that I would help get the word out via NY Times & WSJ, some little media outlets that I've heard about. As a true robot, he didn't flinch.

Fortunately, this change in policy may affect the E90 by only one oil change interval but the cost here is secondary to the principle of this issue. We make buying decisions based on certain factors that are marketed to us as a benefit and when that benefit is taken away, we feel cheated and abused.

I will not let this issue die and if I don't get satisfaction from BMW NA, I will no longer be a proponent of the brand.

...I like those last 2 lines and may use it in my written correspondence to BMW NA, since my verbal communication did not yield the result I was expecting.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by STE92VE

...We make buying decisions based on certain factors that are marketed to us as a benefit and when that benefit is taken away, we feel cheated and abused....

I really hope that you didn't make your purchasing decision based upon the number of included services.

You were offered included maintenance. That's what you got - that's what you still get.

[STE92VE]

Originally Posted by cb1111

I really hope that you didn't make your purchasing decision based upon the number of included services.

You were offered included maintenance. That's what you got - that's what you still get.

I was offered a minimum of one oil change/calendar year included in the "no-cost" maintenance program as per the manual, so how can you say I'm still getting that?

[STE92VE]

Hey, here's a novel idea that I just thought of....

If they can change the rules of the game, so can I. I'll change the interval of my BMW FS loan payments since my financial technicians determined that it's not necessary to make monthly payments.