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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing / Warranty > downsides to changing oil every 6k miles vs 12k?



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      11-23-2011, 07:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
I'm thinking Jiffy Lube must own Blackstone Labs. As people have stopped drinking the Kool Aid about 3,000 mile oil changes, Jiffy Lube has figured a new way to brainwash people out their $20.
Jiffy Lube? 3,000 mile oil changes? Are you sure you are on the right topic or are you making up your own discussions again? LOL!

As others here have mentioned, oil analysis actually helps you determine how long to run your oil for your application. For my M3 motor, Blackstone recommend 8K miles for my next change (assuming I continue highway/city driving).
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      11-23-2011, 08:48 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Clifton View Post
Jiffy Lube? 3,000 mile oil changes? Are you sure you are on the right topic or are you making up your own discussions again? LOL!

As others here have mentioned, oil analysis actually helps you determine how long to run your oil for your application. For my M3 motor, Blackstone recommend 8K miles for my next change (assuming I continue highway/city driving).
Yes exactly on topic - oil change intervals. Yes exactly correct spend money on a UOA for $20 and learn nothing, or just change your oil early (if you think it does some good).
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      11-23-2011, 10:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
Yes exactly on topic - oil change intervals. Yes exactly correct spend money on a UOA for $20 and learn nothing, or just change your oil early (if you think it does some good).
I can understand your ignorance is bliss approach to extended oil changes, but that is typically reserved for those who have no mechanical sympathy.

You only need a couple of oil analysis reports to learn the optimum change interval for your application. There is no need to keep sending the oil in once you have the OCI dialed in, unless you just want to or unless you drastically change the service of the vehicle, i.e., switch from all highway to all city.

Guessing the condition of your oil is just that.

PS - did you ever unplug your gas gauge? I think one of your last off-topic rants indicated that you should just fill up more often and you never have to worry about how much gas you have.
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      11-23-2011, 10:28 PM   #26
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      11-24-2011, 12:51 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
Yes exactly on topic - oil change intervals. Yes exactly correct spend money on a UOA for $20 and learn nothing, or just change your oil early (if you think it does some good).
Used oil analysis tells you the condition of the oil. See SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119 on oil change frequency. New oil increases wear over used oil.
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      11-24-2011, 07:09 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Clifton View Post
I can understand your ignorance is bliss approach to extended oil changes, but that is typically reserved for those who have no mechanical sympathy.

You only need a couple of oil analysis reports to learn the optimum change interval for your application. There is no need to keep sending the oil in once you have the OCI dialed in, unless you just want to or unless you drastically change the service of the vehicle, i.e., switch from all highway to all city.

Guessing the condition of your oil is just that.

PS - did you ever unplug your gas gauge? I think one of your last off-topic rants indicated that you should just fill up more often and you never have to worry about how much gas you have.
I guess we'll get into it then...

As I've stated a gazillion times on this forum, I've had three BMW's, 1989 E30 (256,000 miles), 1997 Z3 (150,000 miles still in service), and 2006 E90 (161,000 miles still in service). All bought new, all followed BMW's OCI: the E30 - about every 10,000 miles, the Z3 - about every 11,000 miles, the E90 - about every 17,500 miles. No engine failures.

Since experience negates ignorance, I'll state I'm far from ignorant on the subject. Also, I have a full autoshop in my garage, with a lift, air tools, and a full compliment of hand tools worth well over $4,000; so considering that level of investment in DIY maintenance, I think it’s fair to say I'm not mechanically unsympathetic.

BMW already did the testing for me. They've "dialed in" the OCI already; you just don't believe them. And BMW's testing was done under proper test conditions, which we've already gone over previously, unlike an UOA from Blackstone labs.
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      11-24-2011, 08:49 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
I guess we'll get into it then...

As I've stated a gazillion times on this forum, I've had three BMW's, 1989 E30 (256,000 miles), 1997 Z3 (150,000 miles still in service), and 2006 E90 (161,000 miles still in service). All bought new, all followed BMW's OCI: the E30 - about every 10,000 miles, the Z3 - about every 11,000 miles, the E90 - about every 17,500 miles. No engine failures.

Since experience negates ignorance, I'll state I'm far from ignorant on the subject. Also, I have a full autoshop in my garage, with a lift, air tools, and a full compliment of hand tools worth well over $4,000; so considering that level of investment in DIY maintenance, I think it’s fair to say I'm not mechanically unsympathetic.
.
I have a 2 legs, WITH A FOOT and 5 TOES ATTACHED to each, i've owned 3 pairs of shoes, all with 2 gazillion foots steps. I also have a sock drawer with over 4,000 dollars worth of socks and DIY underwear changes. I have air nail file and hand tools worth over 317 pennies..

oh sorry, WHO CARES.

An oil change takes a socket wrench...and oil/filter. If with all your mighty experience and tool chest you care to do the bare minimum, knock yourself out.

This tread is about oil changes either every 6k or 12k miles, not the size of your gonads.

(notice sarcasm)

Last edited by TotalPower; 11-24-2011 at 09:23 AM..
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      11-24-2011, 09:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TotalPower View Post
I have a 2 legs, WITH A FOOT and 5 TOES ATTACHED to each, i've owned 3 pairs of shoes, all with 2 gazillion foots steps. I also have a sock drawer with over 4,000 dollars worth of socks and DIY underwear changes. I have air nail file and hand tools worth over 317 pennies..

oh sorry, WHO CARES.

An oil change takes a socket wrench...and oil/filter. If with all your mighty experience and tool chest you care to do the bare minimum, knock yourself out.

This tread is about oil changes either every 6k or 12k miles, not the size gonads.
No, not really, the depth of intelligence...

I don't have that many socks.
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      11-24-2011, 11:52 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TotalPower View Post
This tread is about oil changes either every 6k or 12k miles, not the size...
Not sure about the tread, but the OP of this thread has already decided on a 15k OCI - see post #4.

And (again) until you can come up with a justification better than "BMWs are known to consume oil" (what internal combustion vehicles do not?), there is no proof that the BMW CBS changes are harmful.

Tom
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      11-24-2011, 12:33 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom K. View Post
Not sure about the tread, but the OP of this thread has already decided on a 15k OCI - see post #4.

And (again) until you can come up with a justification better than "BMWs are known to consume oil" (what internal combustion vehicles do not?), there is no proof that the BMW CBS changes are harmful.

Tom
Internal combustion vehicle? I'll be sure to stay away from your car so I don't blow up.
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      11-24-2011, 03:12 PM   #33
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Internal combustion vehicle? I'll be sure to stay away from your car so I don't blow up.
Yes, a vehicle that relies on internal combustion for motive force.
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      11-24-2011, 04:33 PM   #34
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I just ate too much turkey, I now have internal combustion
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      11-24-2011, 05:38 PM   #35
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BMW's and Blackstone's tests show the oil is fine for 15K OCIs. The SAE Technical paper shows new oil increases wear over used oil. Why argue?
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      11-25-2011, 03:32 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT1000 View Post
See SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119 on oil change frequency. New oil increases wear over used oil.
Did you get the paper # correct? The paper you specified is titled

"Antiwear Performance of Low Phosphorus Engine Oils on Tappet Inserts in Motored Sliding Valvetrain Test"

and it analyzes the antiwear capability of phosphorus in oils only.
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      11-25-2011, 09:02 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
Yes, a vehicle that relies on internal combustion for motive force.
I know the thesaurus can be tricky.


Again, the question asked was: "what is the downside of switching your oil early/late?"

What happens if you forget and are a couple hundred or a thousand or two miles late, well if you aim for 6k miles...nothing...if you aim for 12 (or 15k) you could be running a risk.
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      11-25-2011, 09:17 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TotalPower View Post
I know the thesaurus can be tricky.


Again, the question asked was: "what is the downside of switching your oil early/late?"

What happens if you forget and are a couple hundred or a thousand or two miles late, well if you aim for 6k miles...nothing...if you aim for 12 (or 15k) you could be running a risk.
Well in an E90 it's pretty hard to forget if you go by the CBS. The car reminds you of service requirements every time you start the engine or turn it off. Generally engineers follow engineering principles that are conservative in nature, so even by BMWs extended OCI there is probably still some headroom in the mileage.
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      11-25-2011, 10:14 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
I hope one day BMW comes up with a different lubrication system than using oil. That way we can stop arguing about this stupid fucking subject. Christ.

99% of the people on this board will not even keep their cars past 36,000 miles, so it is pointless to discuss OCI's and oil PAOs, viscosity, blah, blah, blah.
Fixed it for you.
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      11-25-2011, 10:48 AM   #40
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"Smug, Left Coast Newbie vs Seasoned East Coast Vet"

Wow....the epic battle between Cali newbie know-it-all TotalPower and the venerable VA veteran ENINTY as they discuss with visceral viscosity the question of if it's too oily or too late to change the synthetic oil made expensive by Castrol through the branding by BMW and years of engineering and real world data on oil change frequency...

Stay tuned for the sequel to the oil change wars..."slippery slope to slogging it out on the forum"

Anyone for a Xanax?
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      11-25-2011, 11:37 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by flip4335 View Post


"Smug, Left Coast Newbie vs Seasoned East Coast Vet"

Wow....the epic battle between Cali newbie know-it-all TotalPower and the venerable VA veteran ENINTY as they discuss with visceral viscosity the question of if it's too oily or too late to change the synthetic oil made expensive by Castrol through the branding by BMW and years of engineering and real world data on oil change frequency...

Stay tuned for the sequel to the oil change wars..."slippery slope to slogging it out on the forum"

Anyone for a Xanax?
(Insert dramatic reverb) "How many miles does it take to get to the took too long to change my oil center of a BMW pop- The forum may never know."
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      11-25-2011, 12:23 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TotalPower View Post
(Insert dramatic reverb) "How many miles does it take to get to the took too long to change my oil center of a BMW pop- The forum may never know."
LOL...You're OK, bro.
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      11-25-2011, 04:20 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samchoi604 View Post
Did you get the paper # correct? The paper you specified is titled

"Antiwear Performance of Low Phosphorus Engine Oils on Tappet Inserts in Motored Sliding Valvetrain Test"

and it analyzes the antiwear capability of phosphorus in oils only.
Yes that is the correct SAE Paper number. Other independent test show the same reduction in wear with used oil over time.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

In addition to anti-wear capability of phosphorus they also tested extended drain intervals as noted in the SAE Paper Overview listed below.

"...In addition to fresh oils, long drain used oils from fleet vehicles were also analyzed and investigated..."
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      11-25-2011, 08:37 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by ceb View Post
Fixed it for you.
Now that's funny; I don't care who you are.
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