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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > Focal underseat subs



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      12-10-2014, 10:57 PM   #1
DrRobert
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Focal underseat subs

These are getting installed tomorrow. Sorry for the crappy cell phone photos. Will be running them with a Mosconi D2 150.2 amp. Will let you know how I like them soon! (although the only thing I have to compare them to are the HKs they are replacing.)





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      12-11-2014, 05:57 AM   #2
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Looks nice
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      12-11-2014, 11:16 AM   #3
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I just saw these as well, thought about upgrading the factory speakers as well for some more boom under the seats =)

Are these to powerful for the factory amp?
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      12-11-2014, 06:18 PM   #4
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Alright!!!! Many on here were waiting for someone to take the leap with these. They look fantastic, congratulations. Let us know how they sound and what type of frequencies you can get from them.
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      12-11-2014, 06:45 PM   #5
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I believe they are meant as plug and play replacements for the factory speakers, i.e. for use with the factory amp. But I'm replacing the front door speakers and the amps too. Going to go get it now!!!
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      12-11-2014, 07:43 PM   #6
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I'll be curious to hear how they sound. The Focals are subwoofers rather than woofers. I went with the Jehnert woofers for the underseat and added a true subwoofer (Dynaudio Esotar 1200). I'm running Mosconi amps as well - good choice.
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      12-12-2014, 12:02 AM   #7
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Wow those look awesome. Didn't know Focal made a plug and play kit. Would've held off on my MBquart even though I have no complaints with them
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      12-12-2014, 12:27 AM   #8
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First impression: I need a subwoofer.

The Focal speakers (IFBMW-S kit in the front doors, IFBMW-Sub under seats, driven by Mosconi processor and amps) sound very clean, but the subs don't produce as much bass as I had hoped, just a bit more than the HK/L7s unfortunately. I think these may be well suited as the woofers that go with the mids and tweeters in the front doors, but they are not subwoofers IMO. I had already figured there might be a Phase 2 to this project later on - now I know there will be one, probably sooner rather than later. Guess that turbo upgrade will have to wait a bit...

Like I said, I don't have anything to compare this with other than the HK system that came with the car, but I gotta say that without a dedicated subwoofer in the trunk these speakers might not be worth the price of admission. Will certainly do some more critical listening and report back when I get the real sub installed.
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      12-12-2014, 02:47 AM   #9
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Sorry those were your results. Though I'm pretty sure there were those that warned that the Focals wouldn't be as much return for the $$ spent as other alternatives.

Appreciate your candor though. I truly wished they would have been what you wanted.
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      12-12-2014, 04:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wongway View Post
Sorry those were your results. Though I'm pretty sure there were those that warned that the Focals wouldn't be as much return for the $$ spent as other alternatives.

Appreciate your candor though. I truly wished they would have been what you wanted.
I was considering focals as well, what alternatives offer better bang for buck??
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      12-12-2014, 05:14 AM   #11
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Hindsight is always 20/20... appreciate at least that you physically tried these woofers.

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...95&postcount=5

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRobert View Post
First impression: I need a subwoofer.

The Focal speakers (IFBMW-S kit in the front doors, IFBMW-Sub under seats, driven by Mosconi processor and amps) sound very clean, but the subs don't produce as much bass as I had hoped, just a bit more than the HK/L7s unfortunately. I think these may be well suited as the woofers that go with the mids and tweeters in the front doors, but they are not subwoofers IMO. I had already figured there might be a Phase 2 to this project later on - now I know there will be one, probably sooner rather than later. Guess that turbo upgrade will have to wait a bit...

Like I said, I don't have anything to compare this with other than the HK system that came with the car, but I gotta say that without a dedicated subwoofer in the trunk these speakers might not be worth the price of admission. Will certainly do some more critical listening and report back when I get the real sub installed.
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      12-12-2014, 06:35 AM   #12
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The main problem in this application is the restricted air space behind the woofers. The enclosures are tiny, and the connection to the side sill cavities does not add enough space and restricts air flow. Here is what I did, and it is the ONLY way to provide this application with enough air space and let the woofers breathe properly. This mod is not for the faint hearted though...
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      12-12-2014, 10:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socket View Post
I was considering focals as well, what alternatives offer better bang for buck??
Most anyone that's had them love the Jehnert 8" midbass.

Though Technic's answer here:
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...95&postcount=5
is also accurate.

I personally went with Jehnert's door board setup and that I know isn't desirable for most people due to having to cut/modify the doors, but it works for me because I refuse to put a sub in the trunk.

For most people though, putting more power to the underseats, or power+Jehnert 8" (XE200) is suffice. To really get that low end, a corner loaded enclosure with a 10 or 12 works (coupled with power to underseats or the Jehnert 8), and the best way to get good sounding low end would probably be the infinite baffle install (also coupled to more power to underseats or the Jehnert 8).

Do keep in mind, when we're talking "subs" we're talking the range from 80hz or so to beyond 30hz.
Power to the underseats or replacing them with proper midbass subs is honestly more for playing in the 250hz to approx 80hz range. That range however makes up a larger amount of 'bass' that most people hear. The extra 80hz to approx 30/35hz provides that bottom end foundation 'feel'. Real good sounding bass will utilize both solutions together. There isn't going to be a speaker that we'd install under the E90's seats that will replicate fully from 250-30hz.

Power to the underseats or replacing them with decent 8" mids will give most people the sensation there's more 'bass'. It will probably make people that aren't audiophiles pretty happy.
True audiophiles will be missing that real low end 'oomph' that only a real sub will provide. So if that's you, you're still relegated to having to add a corner loaded enclosure or infinite baffle.

Last edited by Wongway; 12-12-2014 at 10:33 AM..
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      12-12-2014, 11:08 AM   #14
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These Focal "subs" actually put out some respectable midbass with low distortion (to my aging ears, at least) that is more than a little bit better than the HK/L7s they replaced. However, please note that I also replaced the amp that is driving them, so I now have 150 watts/channel going to them, which is more than double what I had before. I have no way of knowing if the improvement in midbass is from the speakers, the amp, or a combination of both.

I stand by my first impression though, and am already making plans for a real subwoofer in the trunk. I had a dash-mounted volume knob installed for the underseat speakers, and find myself cranking it up to get more bass, but it is not the balanced sound I'm after. By increasing the volume on the 8" speakers I get a lot more midbass, but what I really want is just a little more on the lower end of the spectrum, which is still lacking. And I'm talking about listening at medium volumes - I'm not one to crank up the volume and blow out the whole neighborhood. In retrospect I think my expectations for what I could get out of the underseat speakers were too high. The mids and highs sound real nice though, and I think that after getting a real subwoofer with its own amp and retuning the underseats for their proper role I will have the sound system I've been wanting.
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      12-12-2014, 01:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRobert View Post
These Focal "subs" actually put out some respectable midbass with low distortion (to my aging ears, at least) that is more than a little bit better than the HK/L7s they replaced. However, please note that I also replaced the amp that is driving them, so I now have 150 watts/channel going to them, which is more than double what I had before. I have no way of knowing if the improvement in midbass is from the speakers, the amp, or a combination of both.

I stand by my first impression though, and am already making plans for a real subwoofer in the trunk. I had a dash-mounted volume knob installed for the underseat speakers, and find myself cranking it up to get more bass, but it is not the balanced sound I'm after. By increasing the volume on the 8" speakers I get a lot more midbass, but what I really want is just a little more on the lower end of the spectrum, which is still lacking. And I'm talking about listening at medium volumes - I'm not one to crank up the volume and blow out the whole neighborhood. In retrospect I think my expectations for what I could get out of the underseat speakers were too high. The mids and highs sound real nice though, and I think that after getting a real subwoofer with its own amp and retuning the underseats for their proper role I will have the sound system I've been wanting.
My advice would be to return them if you can, or cut a deal with the shop where you bought them that they give you some sort of credit towards the purchase of a trunk sub and amp combo.

The L7 woofers, with the additional power, work pretty well as midbass drivers and you would probably not notice a huge difference between those and the Focals.
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      12-12-2014, 01:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
My advice would be to return them if you can, or cut a deal with the shop where you bought them that they give you some sort of credit towards the purchase of a trunk sub and amp combo.

The L7 woofers, with the additional power, work pretty well as midbass drivers and you would probably not notice a huge difference between those and the Focals.

Can't return them. But he is going to give me a considerable discount on the amp, sub and labor for installing a trunk sub. I'm satisfied with that.

Last edited by DrRobert; 12-12-2014 at 02:07 PM..
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      12-12-2014, 04:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRobert
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
My advice would be to return them if you can, or cut a deal with the shop where you bought them that they give you some sort of credit towards the purchase of a trunk sub and amp combo.

The L7 woofers, with the additional power, work pretty well as midbass drivers and you would probably not notice a huge difference between those and the Focals.

Can't return them. But he is going to give me a considerable discount on the amp, sub and labor for installing a trunk sub. I'm satisfied with that.
IB or corner load?

T
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      12-12-2014, 04:37 PM   #18
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The plan is for a JL 10W6v3 in custom box left side corner of trunk over the factory amp location, run by a Mosconi D2 500.1 amp.
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      12-12-2014, 05:37 PM   #19
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That sounds like a very good plan.

Sorry those focals didn't work for you. Despite having heard very few focals that I thought were worth the money, I honestly hoped they were a product you'd be happy with..
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      12-12-2014, 06:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wongway View Post
That sounds like a very good plan.

Sorry those focals didn't work for you. Despite having heard very few focals that I thought were worth the money, I honestly hoped they were a product you'd be happy with..

Don't get me wrong - I think the Focals are good speakers, I just think my expectations for them were too high. My impression now is that it is very difficult if not impossible to get really good bass out of the underseat speakers due to the space constraints in that location.

At this point I'm looking at my sound system as a work in progress - I think the amps, front door and underseat speakers were a good start; I'm just not done with it yet. I'm hoping to get the sub installed next week - will keep you posted!
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      12-12-2014, 06:15 PM   #21
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You could always try this set of focals
Might need to sell your car to fund them though

http://www.focalaustralia.com.au/shop/ultima/
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      12-12-2014, 07:52 PM   #22
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You could always try this set of focals
Might need to sell your car to fund them though

http://www.focalaustralia.com.au/shop/ultima/
Or maybe a pair of these and just stay at home.

http://www.electronichouse.com/slide...egory/6338/973
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