[musa]

This is an SOS as I'm totally stumped and the issue is quite dangerous - my '07 E92 (104k miles) keeps going into limp mode at any speed and the error code is always 5E19 - DSC CAN DME/DDE Torque Reduction Not Possible;engine torque not adjustable. The limp mode is always very violent with the car "jerking" like crazy. I'm stumped by this issue. I turn the car off and on and it starts fine but soon goes into the violent limp mode when the car reaches operating temperature. Replaced all vacuum lines, retightened charge pipe and inlets; installed new spark plugs, coils, TMAP sensor, throttle body; resat ECU and DSC connections; cleaned wheel speed sensors; replaced post *** O2 sensors (car had thrown signal errors for these in the past) and still hitting limp mode + 5E19.

It's driving me nuts and my wallet is not amused at all. It's also a serious safety issue if it occurs while driving on the freeways. Any help, please? Thanks!

[whosdady]

Originally Posted by musa

This is an SOS as I'm totally stumped and the issue is quite dangerous - my '07 E92 (104k miles) keeps going into limp mode at any speed and the error code is always 5E19 - DSC CAN DME/DDE Torque Reduction Not Possible;engine torque not adjustable. The limp mode is always very violent with the car "jerking" like crazy. I'm stumped by this issue. I turn the car off and on and it starts fine but soon goes into the violent limp mode when the car reaches operating temperature. Replaced all vacuum lines, retightened charge pipe and inlets; installed new spark plugs, coils, TMAP sensor, throttle body; resat ECU and DSC connections; cleaned wheel speed sensors; replaced post *** O2 sensors (car had thrown signal errors for these in the past) and still hitting limp mode + 5E19.

It's driving me nuts and my wallet is not amused at all. It's also a serious safety issue if it occurs while driving on the freeways. Any help, please? Thanks!

LPFP is my guess. I had something similar when mine went out...

[musa]

Originally Posted by whosdady

LPFP is my guess. I had something similar when mine went out...

Thank you Whosdady. Did the car throw specific LPFP fault code? Did you get 5E19 fault code and DSC/Brake/traction control lights during the limp mode?

[whosdady]

Originally Posted by musa

Thank you Whosdady. Did the car throw specific LPFP fault code? Did you get 5E19 fault code and DSC/Brake/traction control lights during the limp mode?

Mine did not throw a code specific to the lpfp. The car was literally shaking as it idled and the rpm's were bouncing...

[musa]

Originally Posted by whosdady

Mine did not throw a code specific to the lpfp. The car was literally shaking as it idled and the rpm's were bouncing...

Thank you. My car would act like a perfect car with smooth idle and power, cruise nicely, etc. After reaching operating temperature, it would drive fine for a while until I accelerate up a hill or step on it and all hell would break loose- Limp mode, check engine light, DSC and brake lights on in the dash, car shaking and jerking like crazy with RPM all over the place. Have to pull off the road lest someone rams into me. INPA/ISTA post code 5E19 - DSC CAN DME/DDE Torque Reduction Not Possible. No other codes are posted. To recover, I just turn the car off, wait for a few minutes, turn it back on and the car behaves as if nothing bad happened- smooth idle, revs nicely and all and no check engine light or other lights. From then on it would hit limp mode after limp mode after a short drive. The way I make it home is to take it easy on the peddle driving at around 30 mph. Even then, I occasionally would hit limp mode going up a hill. It's so frustrating and dangerous.

Were you getting DSC and brake lights on in the dash during the limp mode and the shaky idle?

[whosdady]

My 335i is an 07 with 55K miles. I've had the lpfp go out twice. The first time it was a gradual fail over time. (Like yours) I checked everything but had no luck. The BMW tech suggested changing out the pump and everything was normal for a couple years. The second time it happened over night. The car was running perfectly fine one minute. The next morning when I started the car, the crazy idle stuff happened. I could hardly make it to the dealer...

[MJ80.]

I had an insane and violet jerking on my old 335 that i never worked out. I was running an old proceede tune and no matter what i did around 5.5k rpms at WOT the car would buck and jerk around like crazy, very hard and violent too it was nuts. I never worked it out, ended up pulling the procede out and went to a flash tune and never had the problem again...

Totally vanished. Good luck.

I should add the RPM used to bounce around like crazy too, it was so extreme, followed by limp mode or sometimes total power loss, whole car even shut off once.

[musa]

Originally Posted by MJ80.

I had an insane and violet jerking on my old 335 that i never worked out. I was running an old proceede tune and no matter what i did around 5.5k rpms at WOT the car would buck and jerk around like crazy, very hard and violent too it was nuts. I never worked it out, ended up pulling the procede out and went to a flash tune and never had the problem again...

Totally vanished. Good luck.

I should add the RPM used to bounce around like crazy too, it was so extreme, followed by limp mode or sometimes total power loss, whole car even shut off once.

Thank MJ80. Was it accompanied with fault code 5E19 - DSC CAN DME/DDE Torque Reduction Not Possible?

[black82c]

What mods do you have done to your car? Also, have you thought about checking to see if you have an air leaks anywhere in your intake system and checked your MAP sensor to see if it's dirty or not fully seated? You could get that code if the MAP sensor cannot properly read the pressure.

Good luck figuring it out.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Google 5E19 and BMW. I've read a few things it could be through that. Not sure if it's the throttle body, ABS, DME issue or what for sure.

Any other codes?

[MJ80.]

Originally Posted by musa

Thank MJ80. Was it accompanied with fault code 5E19 - DSC CAN DME/DDE Torque Reduction Not Possible?

That code doesn't sound familiar, it was a while ago but im pretty sure that code wasnt there.

[NoSlow5oh]

If you are on a JB4, remove it. If on a flash tune, flash it back to stock and go from there.

[musa]

Yes, I have JB4, catless downpipes and RBturbos. In the past the car had been running great except hitting limp mode only when WOT. In fact I had made multiples trips San Diego/Seattle with absolutely no incident. The current limp mode + 5E19 fault at all speeds started right after adding a bottle of chevron proguard fuel injection cleaner - it may just be a coincident. The car didn't go more than 2 miles before I started hitting limp mode after limp mode at all speeds and the code always being 5E19. Here's what I have done so far before and after the current limp mode:

900 miles before the limp mode the following were done:
1) Complete suspension overhaul with new ST coilovers and wheel alignment that included steering wheel sensor calibration.
2) Walnut blasting
3) RB turbo rebuild by Rob
4) New Valve cover
5) Transmission drain refill x2 with new trans/filter pan
6) Transmission mechatronic sleeve and seals (5 of them)
7) New oil pan gasket
8) Replaced all vacuum tubes
9) New air filter cone type
10) New coils and spark plugs
11) New brakes and brake fluid refresh
12) New Water pump and thermostat
13) New belt and new pulleys
14) Drain/refill differential
15) Added fuel injection cleaner when gas tank was 1/4 full and then topped up.

At this point the car was driving great except for the pre-existing limp mode at WOT condition, and I was a very happy E92 owner having done all the work myself right in my home garage on my back with jack stands (except the alignment of course and walnut blasting).

And then I added the same fuel injection cleaner again (after 3 tank full refills) and all hell broke loose. After the limp mode + 5E19 fault code I've done the following so far:
1) New throttle body
2) Post-cat oxygen sensors
3) New charge-pipe pressure sensor and new charge-pipe seal. I did not change the pressure sensor that is on the intake manifold. Should I?
4) Cleaned all the wheel speed sensors.
5) Resat DME and DSC connections.

One new thing I just noticed is that the car now emits blackish smoke from right exhaust after the limp mode starts happening. I'm now suspecting the fuel injectors. I will check spark plugs for fuel wetness or foulness since I had installed new spark plugs and coils before the current limp mode+5E19 episode. I will report back with my findings. The injectors are originals (2007) and car is now at 104k miles.

Any other pointers? Note that I'm just a software developer who loves DIY, so I may have missed obvious diagnostic steps.

[musa]

Originally Posted by black82c

What mods do you have done to your car? Also, have you thought about checking to see if you have an air leaks anywhere in your intake system and checked your MAP sensor to see if it's dirty or not fully seated? You could get that code if the MAP sensor cannot properly read the pressure.

Good luck figuring it out.

I installed new charge-pipe pressure sensor and new charge-pipe seal with no improvement. However, I did not change the pressure sensor that is on the intake manifold. I'll clean or replace to see if that changes anything.

Thanks!

[musa]

Originally Posted by black82c

What mods do you have done to your car? Also, have you thought about checking to see if you have an air leaks anywhere in your intake system and checked your MAP sensor to see if it's dirty or not fully seated? You could get that code if the MAP sensor cannot properly read the pressure.

Good luck figuring it out.

Thank you Black82c, that's a pretty significant pointer about the MAP sensor. The one on the intake manifold must have been removed when walnut blasting was being done and probably wiring interfered with and thus causing intermittent connection - I'll check it out tonight after work and test its wiring. I did change the pressure sensor on the charge pipe. I didn't realize the pressure sensors could throw that fault. My online searches show that "5E19 CAN DME/DDE Torque Reduction Not Possible; Engine torque not adjustable" indicates a communication problem with the engine computer and traction control. It's saying something along the lines that it sent a signal to the engine to drop power, and the engine didn't.

[homemade_f81]

Have you tried disconnecting your JB4? I had a JB4 where the board failed on me and was throwing all kinds of codes - codes that didn't make sense. I'd get the 30ff code but at the same time I'd hit 23psi when boost request was only 16psi, etc. The code would suggest that the car wasn't building enough boost when it was over boosting. There were several other codes that didn't make any sense, I just can't remember all of them.

The interesting thing is that it was happening only after the car warmed up - not while it was warming up. I couldn't go WOT on the car - it drove me nuts until I pulled the board and it all cleared up instantly. I couldn't find any issue with the actual hardware which lead me to suspect the JB4. I'd pull it out completely - mine was causing issues even when I had it in map 0.

It's easy to pull and will rule out a potential problem without spending any more $$$'s.

[MJ80.]

I agree pull the JB! like i said i pulled my procede and never saw the issue again, almost certain it was a faulty product as i went for a different tune after and no issues!

[musa]

Originally Posted by black82c

What mods do you have done to your car? Also, have you thought about checking to see if you have an air leaks anywhere in your intake system and checked your MAP sensor to see if it's dirty or not fully seated? You could get that code if the MAP sensor cannot properly read the pressure.

Good luck figuring it out.

I pulled out the MAP sensor from the intake manifold and it was unbelievably dirty - thick with gunk. I noticed that jb4 gauge is showing dme zero boost when running the car. Now installing a new sensor and will report back.

[musa]

Originally Posted by swedishpowah

Have you tried disconnecting your JB4? I had a JB4 where the board failed on me and was throwing all kinds of codes - codes that didn't make sense. I'd get the 30ff code but at the same time I'd hit 23psi when boost request was only 16psi, etc. The code would suggest that the car wasn't building enough boost when it was over boosting. There were several other codes that didn't make any sense, I just can't remember all of them.

The interesting thing is that it was happening only after the car warmed up - not while it was warming up. I couldn't go WOT on the car - it drove me nuts until I pulled the board and it all cleared up instantly. I couldn't find any issue with the actual hardware which lead me to suspect the JB4. I'd pull it out completely - mine was causing issues even when I had it in map 0.

It's easy to pull and will rule out a potential problem without spending any more $$$'s.

Ok, I agree. How do I completely remove JB4? I have done due diligence and have not seen steps on how to remove it. Or do I just do the reverse of JB4 installation referenced here:
http://www.burgertuning.com/instructions/JB4PnP.pdf

[homemade_f81]

Yes, just the reverse of the attached. Just don't force any of the DME connectors into the DME plug - they are "keyed" for their specific location and should slide fairly easily into place.

[musa]

Removed JB4 and problem persists exactly the same way. No shadow codes. Always getting 5E19 fault code. DME pin connections look good. The strange thing is that the fault is always not present after the limp mode is hit and every diagnosis passes- wheel speed sensor, pressure sensor etc done via INPA and ISTA.

Next step- change the LPFP? I don't know but this issue started right after adding fuel injection cleaner (chevron premium guard). I consulted my local BMW dealership- he suggested to swap the DME ...

[musa]

I swallowed the bitter pill and it seems to have worked! Replaced DME and the DME cooling fan. All came to $1500 which included installation and coding. I was lucky I got a great deal at a dealership. So far so good.