[BennettBucsFan]

Car just died at a stoplight Friday night, prior to it dying there has been a loud metallic clicking sound coming from the engine bay. I have not been able to get it started since. I was reading all over the forums and ruled out DISA, come to find out my car does not have them. I was going to take off the serpentine belt and check because I thought it was either the belt or one of the pulleys, even though it sure sounded like it was coming from under the valve cover the car was running fine and not giving any codes I had not seen before (Vanos solenoids and camshaft sensors have been replaced). Could my timing chain have snapped? I do run the car pretty hard and its got 160K miles on it now. Would a broken timing chain allow the car to turn over but not start? I initially attributed it not being able to start to a coding error because I literally coded the car with NCS Expert/INPA for the first time 10 minutes or so before it died and no new codes were indicating this could be the problem. Posting a few videos taken a day or 2 before my car died, could this be a broken timing chain? I have consistently thrown vanos codes (2a85, 2a87, 2a7a) even with solenoids and sensors replaced. I see there is a Vanos Central Valve as part of the timing mechanism, wondering if this has been the issue all along? I know what the Vanos codes mean so no need to elaborate on those. Before it died the rattle was most noticeable upon ignition and when slowing into a stop, made a loud metallic winding down sound, you can hear this in the first video when the rpms get down near idle. Any assistance in identifying the noise and possible issue would be much appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaz...REx2E6swJ6yHtw

[Denny347]

A broken timing chain would keep your engine from starting at all. Those are rare events.

[bishbosh]

If the engine's still running it won't be the timing chain.

However, it does sound very noisy and the ticking is obvious.

If I'm misunderstanding and the engine now won't start at all does it turn over at all? If the chain has snapped and the starter can turn the crank it will turn over quickly, quicker than normal cranking.

[patents]

When my timing chain snapped in my GM vehicle, it made a distinctly different sound when I tried to start it. Since the chain was gone, the starter was basically freewheeling. Nothing inside the engine was turning. So the starter just made a whirring noise.

I was driving down the road when it happened and I knew before I coasted to a stop that my chain was broken and the engine was toast. It was a common problem in that particular engine, and I knew it was a possibility. When it broke it felt like a slam (the valves getting crushed).

EDIT: I just listened to your video, and that sounds like a timing chain slapping around, broken guide maybe? I could be totally wrong, but I'm guessing it's the timing chain. Anything's possible at that mileage.

[John 070]

Have there been any documented cases? Most motors nowadays are interference, so that if the chain or belt breaks, the motor is done. And it's often not the chain or belt that was the root cause, it was a tensioner or idler or water pump seizing, or with belts, leaking coolant onto the belt.

My DD is 8 cyl. and has a timing belt, which after watching the youtube, I decided for sure I can't DIY this one, at least at this moment. Ended up paying an indie. first car I have ever had with a belt, and I had two OHV cars with pushrods i.e. gears.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by bishbosh

If the engine's still running it won't be the timing chain.

However, it does sound very noisy and the ticking is obvious.

If I'm misunderstanding and the engine now won't start at all does it turn over at all? If the chain has snapped and the starter can turn the crank it will turn over quickly, quicker than normal cranking.

An interference engine won't turn over if the timing chain fails, because a piston will come up against some open valves and stop. Very like waterlogged engines.

Very noisy indeed. Something's wrong; hope it's something on the accessory belt (A/C compressor? alternator?) rather than chain. Could also be something broken under the valve cover - broken spring?

[bishbosh]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

An interference engine won't turn over if the timing chain fails, because a piston will come up against some open valves and stop. Very like waterlogged engines.

Very noisy indeed. Something's wrong; hope it's something on the accessory belt (A/C compressor? alternator?) rather than chain. Could also be something broken under the valve cover - broken spring?

It depends how hard the pistons hit the valves! A chain snapping while idle will most likely cause it just to seize. Giving it some beans down the motorway is a different kettle of fish!

[BennettBucsFan]

Thanks for the insight guys. I believe my car was part of the recall for the vanos bolts, I took it to the dealer a couple of months ago and said they couldn't do anything until the check control light came on and said if my vanos bolts were broken I would not be driving it. Well now I'm not driving it so I'm thinking that could be a possibility as I still had vanos codes after replacing solenoids and camshaft position sensors. I'm afraid it may be the bearing ledges grooved but I have not had a chance to look at that yet. It died right before I was about to put a new VCG on it as there is leaking below where the valvetronic sits. I just put new plugs and coils on it and cylinder 1, 2 and 5 had oil on the plugs. Not sure why only those would, seemed kind of odd to me. I did have some cold weather start issues months ago that were resolved with a new battery and battery registration.The day I bought the car the dealer (NOT BMW) replaced the battery but failed to register it and the battery had significantly less cold cranking amps than the original. A few weeks after replacing the battery I also had some Airbag codes thrown and through trial and error it was the positive battery cable, I guess it came loose where the detonation piece is when I installed the new one, I don't think it detonated because after I pushed it back in the car has been fine since. I can't rule out that it hasn't come loose again and I would feel like a major idiot if that is the case. I had to get a hotel close to work because I'm 75 miles from work and the nearest BMW dealer otherwise I'd be checking that and the cable near the glove box that is known to come loose. I was in panic mode all weekend and wasn't thinking clearly, those should have been the first things I checked. I'm still not even sure the noise on the videos is related to it not starting, just trying to think of possible causes as the car was running fine, albeit very noisy prior to just dying at a stop light. If any of the pulleys were toast would that allow it to turn over but not start? I don't really have anyone to help me so it's tough not being able to watch the engine while someone else cranks it over. I did have someone there long enough to confirm spark, for gas I pushed on the little valve stem thing and it came spraying out but the car wasn't being turned over at the time so I'm not sure if that really is a confirmation of it getting gas. Sorry for the rambling just trying to convey all possibilities I can think of. Are there any other fuses (2011 328i) other than the fusebox in the glovebox that I should be checking? I saw a post about the DME relay that seemed like it could be plausible. Again, thanks to everyone for chiming in, it is truly appreciated. I really don't want to take the car to the dealer and get ass raped.

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

^ They should cover it without question as long as you have the VANOS bolt recall letter (and even if you don't, they should still do it because a car could be transferred to another owner). The recall is a safety recall.

The recall covers 2010-2011 vehicles, including the 328i. What is the last 7 digits of your VIN? If you can prove that you fall under the recall, it'll be easier to get them to do it.

[BennettBucsFan]

Vin starts with WBAPH ends with E683331

[BennettBucsFan]

Production date is 5/2011

[BennettBucsFan]

This would apply to mine and I have had the 2A7A for a while and I certainly have a rattling sound.


https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...45283-5967.pdf

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Tell them your car falls under NHTSA Campaign Recall 14V176000.

Your DME should have the codes stored, and there should be no problem for them to fix it for free under the recall.

[BennettBucsFan]

Ok, I will call and ask for the Service Manager and tell him the situation and let him know I came in several months ago and was turned away. They scanned my key that day so I would think there should be a record of it.

[mxchris727]

BMW's M62 V8 are known for the timing chain guides to fail. They usually sound just like that; it's the chain slapping around while not being tensioned.

[BennettBucsFan]

Well the bolts are recall but it looks like the vanos unit as a whole is under a 10 year limited warranty whatever that means.

[BennettBucsFan]

If the timing chain did go do I have grounds to blame it on the vanos?

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

More than likely. The timing chains aren't known for failure in BMW's 6 cylinders.

[BennettBucsFan]

It says in the repair procedures below to conduct a close examination of the timing chain drive to retrieve the missing parts, so I think that gives me a leg to stand on if indeed that's what happened.


If both VANOS gear assembly bolts are found loose or broken then replace both VANOS gear assemblies.
Refer to Repair Instruction 11 36 046, “Removing and installing or replacing intake and exhaust camshaft
units.” If the bolts have been found broken, the missing portions of the bolts will need to be retrieved from
the engine before the final repairs are made. This additional work may include removing the engine oil pan,
and a close examination of the timing chain drive to retrieve the missing parts. Refer to the applicable repair
instructions for oil pan removal procedures.

[STR8-6IX]

for those of you curious, timing chain failures are due to infrequent oil changes.

his engine sounds like that because the oil was not changed often enough.

in situations like this where the engine is badly sludged up, you would probably need to change the oil 2-3 times just to get the fresh stuff clean again.

this is why I change oil every 5000 miles.

[bishbosh]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

for those of you curious, timing chain failures are due to infrequent oil changes.

his engine sounds like that because the oil was not changed often enough.

in situations like this where the engine is badly sludged up, you would probably need to change the oil 2-3 times just to get the fresh stuff clean again.

this is why I change oil every 5000 miles.

I agree with BimmerGeeks, anyway, how do you know the OPs oil changes were infrequent?

In the UK BMW N47 (2.0 diesel) timing chain failures were a result of incorrect machining of the crankshaft sprockets for the 2007-2008 years as well as issues with the chain guides and tensioners. The guides and tensioners for this particular engine have seen many revisions, at least up until 2013.

My point is that most of these engine failures are not due to infrequent oil changes but inherent problems with certain components that fail.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by BimmerGeeks

Please don't spread information like this around. Your incorrect.

As a professional I have NEVER seen an N52 timing chain failure due to oil change intervals. There are so many different things at play that could cause this. That is if this is even a timing chain issue. They aren't that common.

You stand a better chance of the tensioner or guides failing than oil sludge causing the failure. OP would have to go 40k+ miles without changing oil for me to even consider this a possibility.

Respectfully, I see you post quite a bit on these forums, most of the time every post involves something about 5k mile oil changes, secondary cats or an ecu tune. I get your learning about these cars, but do not spread inaccurate information you probably know nothing about.

given how horrific that engine sounded, I doubt he changed his oil very often.

anyway, timing chain failures are more of an N20 thing so this thread surprised me - I'm very impressed with OP's ability to fuck up a solid motor.

I bet you that infrequent oil changes (there is NO other way his engine would sound like that otherwise) had something to do with it.

Originally Posted by bishbosh

I agree with BimmerGeeks, anyway, how do you know the OPs oil changes were infrequent?

In the UK BMW N47 (2.0 diesel) timing chain failures were a result of incorrect machining of the crankshaft sprockets for the 2007-2008 years as well as issues with the chain guides and tensioners. The guides and tensioners for this particular engine have seen many revisions, at least up until 2013.

My point is that most of these engine failures are not due to infrequent oil changes but inherent problems with certain components that fail.

this is an N52 motor, not an N47. I bet you they're two very different motors. anyways, my point is that the N52 is an extremely solid motor and lasts even if not very well maintained. It's been proven to be much more reliable then the newer N20 model.