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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Converting N52 2 stage manifold into 3 stage.



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      09-15-2020, 03:36 AM   #1
EvaBmw
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Converting N52 2 stage manifold into 3 stage.

So i have a 323i E91 with a 2 stage intake manifold and was thinking of changing to a 3 stage. But then i noticed on my manifold that it actually has the hole for the 2nd Disa already molded into it, it also has the 3 holes for the mounting screws. See pic below.

So i thought, f@#k it, i'm going to try and cut the centre out of the 2nd Disa hole (very carefully) and mount it in there. It will either work, or you guys can have good laugh at me because I'm a retard and i screwed my manifold up!!
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      09-15-2020, 03:53 AM   #2
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So i now have a small Disa and the 3 mounting screws. I wanted to test that the DME would actually activate the new Disa, so i made up a loom to go from the plug for the 2nd Disa in the engine bay, to the passenger seat of the car, then did a test drive with the Disa sitting on the passenger seat. Sure enough it opened at about 2500rpm. I then checked what the big Disa opened at and found it was around 3800-4000rpm.
So now I'm satisfied it will actually function, I'm going to remove the manifold this weekend and get my Dremel out to cut this hole. Will post some pics.
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      09-15-2020, 05:53 PM   #3
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Hehe, yeah the engineers really made sure to minimize the production variances. Cool if that works...makes sense that it would. Would just think you have to flash to get full benenfits.
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      09-16-2020, 03:28 AM   #4
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This is very interesting I'm glad you're willing to use yourself as a guinea pig and see if it works. No reason why it wouldn't unless these manifolds are closed up internally aswell. This brings back the idea I had months ago of getting a single stage 328i manifold and cutting the holes for the disas and putting two in and seeing if it would work but it isn't too worth it given how cheap a bare 3 stage is, only for personal satisfaction.
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      09-16-2020, 12:51 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by E92William View Post
This is very interesting I'm glad you're willing to use yourself as a guinea pig and see if it works. No reason why it wouldn't unless these manifolds are closed up internally aswell. This brings back the idea I had months ago of getting a single stage 328i manifold and cutting the holes for the disas and putting two in and seeing if it would work but it isn't too worth it given how cheap a bare 3 stage is, only for personal satisfaction.
That was done some time back, the 328 manifold had some type of mesh where the upper Disa mounts.
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      09-16-2020, 02:09 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by E92William View Post
This is very interesting I'm glad you're willing to use yourself as a guinea pig and see if it works. No reason why it wouldn't unless these manifolds are closed up internally aswell. This brings back the idea I had months ago of getting a single stage 328i manifold and cutting the holes for the disas and putting two in and seeing if it would work but it isn't too worth it given how cheap a bare 3 stage is, only for personal satisfaction.
That was done some time back, the 328 manifold had some type of mesh where the upper Disa mounts.
Really? I've been looking for it being done for a while. If you know what the thread is called I'd be curious to check it out.

It makes sense because I was wondering why the 3 stage by itself felt more torquey at the bottom end than the 328 manifold and I guess this explains it because the single stage probably is sealed up to be on the midrange runner length from factory.
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      09-18-2020, 04:09 AM   #7
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Bit of an update. I removed the manifold tonight and did a bit of a test drill into the centre of where the small Disa would go as i was a bit worried it might be solid and blanked off inside. Good news though it was hollow. I then drilled small holes all the way around the outside of it and punched it out. Inside is identical to a 3 stage manifold, with the molded recess for the Disa. So all i have to do now is clean the edges up, give the manifold a thorough wash out and fit the Disa in.
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      09-18-2020, 09:36 AM   #8
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Can you see in through the runner both ways just fine? Nice to see it wasn't blocked. Maybe it's just the large disa side that js
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      09-18-2020, 02:00 PM   #9
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Keep it coming. Eager to see the results -- esp regarding the screw mount posts.
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      09-18-2020, 02:36 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by bluewater328 View Post
Keep it coming. Eager to see the results -- esp regarding the screw mount posts.
Back into it again this morning. This job turned out to be a lot easier than i thought. All cleaned up now ready to install the small Disa. The 3 screw holes are already there ready to go. No drilling needed. I'll give it a good clean out now and reassemble.
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      09-18-2020, 04:08 PM   #11
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Can't wait to see if it ends up working out for you. The surfaces all look like they should. I'd just make sure no large pieces of plastic are still in the manifold, surprised it has the holes for the screws and all.

Now I'm really considering butchering the old single stage manifold I have sitting in the garage to try this out lol. I know rjahl said it has like a mesh or something but maybe it can be removed. I'd be willing to even swap it in and see lol.
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      09-19-2020, 02:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92William View Post
Can't wait to see if it ends up working out for you. The surfaces all look like they should. I'd just make sure no large pieces of plastic are still in the manifold, surprised it has the holes for the screws and all.

Now I'm really considering butchering the old single stage manifold I have sitting in the garage to try this out lol. I know rjahl said it has like a mesh or something but maybe it can be removed. I'd be willing to even swap it in and see lol.
Took it for a spin after reassembling. Definitely more torque down low.Worked out to be a cheap 3 stage conversion. Cost $130 all up and i spent 3 hrs doing it.
I was thinking about trying to source a 325i tune from somewhere. The power difference between N52b25 323i and 325i is 30kw (40hp). The engine and internals are identical, so a good gain to be had from a tune. Could be a tough ask though as the N52b25 is not as common as the b30. Was going to try flashing a 325i into it with winkfp. I'm pretty sure it's not as easy as doing that though. Any suggestions anybody??
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      09-19-2020, 05:05 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by EvaBmw View Post
Took it for a spin after reassembling. Definitely more torque down low.Worked out to be a cheap 3 stage conversion. Cost $130 all up and i spent 3 hrs doing it.
I was thinking about trying to source a 325i tune from somewhere. The power difference between N52b25 323i and 325i is 30kw (40hp). The engine and internals are identical, so a good gain to be had from a tune. Could be a tough ask though as the N52b25 is not as common as the b30. Was going to try flashing a 325i into it with winkfp. I'm pretty sure it's not as easy as doing that though. Any suggestions anybody??
If you have access to the file, it is as easy as flashing it with winkfp
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      09-19-2020, 11:32 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by HydroxFrost View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvaBmw View Post
Took it for a spin after reassembling. Definitely more torque down low.Worked out to be a cheap 3 stage conversion. Cost $130 all up and i spent 3 hrs doing it.
I was thinking about trying to source a 325i tune from somewhere. The power difference between N52b25 323i and 325i is 30kw (40hp). The engine and internals are identical, so a good gain to be had from a tune. Could be a tough ask though as the N52b25 is not as common as the b30. Was going to try flashing a 325i into it with winkfp. I'm pretty sure it's not as easy as doing that though. Any suggestions anybody??
If you have access to the file, it is as easy as flashing it with winkfp
Not if there is a Powerclass difference in the two files. You'll get limp mode and no power.

Checkout Bimmerlabs they might have a file for you.
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      09-19-2020, 07:59 PM   #15
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Not if there is a Powerclass difference in the two files. You'll get limp mode and no power.

Checkout Bimmerlabs they might have a file for you.
This. Create an account, put in your specs and VIN and hopefully a proper file comes back for you.
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      09-20-2020, 01:06 AM   #16
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Not if there is a Powerclass difference in the two files. You'll get limp mode and no power.

Checkout Bimmerlabs they might have a file for you.
My bad, didn't think of this lol
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      09-20-2020, 01:19 AM   #17
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What power class would that even be. Isn't the 325i 3.0 n52 0?
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      09-20-2020, 02:32 AM   #18
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This. Create an account, put in your specs and VIN and hopefully a proper file comes back for you.
I went and created an account there, but it doesn't look like there's anything currently. It says "there is 1 stock tune available for your project" and " there are no custom files available for your project"

So I'm assuming the stock file is what i already have now? Anybody ever done this before?

Edit: just checked the ZB number of my DME which is 7581284. The "stock tune" on Bimmerlabs is a different ZB 7581286, so maybe this is the one i need?

Last edited by EvaBmw; 09-20-2020 at 02:49 AM..
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      09-20-2020, 06:06 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by EvaBmw View Post
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Originally Posted by bluewater328 View Post
This. Create an account, put in your specs and VIN and hopefully a proper file comes back for you.
I went and created an account there, but it doesn't look like there's anything currently. It says "there is 1 stock tune available for your project" and " there are no custom files available for your project"

So I'm assuming the stock file is what i already have now? Anybody ever done this before?

Edit: just checked the ZB number of my DME which is 7581284. The "stock tune" on Bimmerlabs is a different ZB 7581286, so maybe this is the one i need?
Save me a few minutes , is the an MSV70 or the 80?
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      09-20-2020, 09:26 AM   #20
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Save me a few minutes , is the an MSV70 or the 80?
Never mind, these are both the latest ROM 921 files for the MSV70. not sure of the differences in these two files. Need to dig into the database.

Dead easy to write a powerclass fix, hardest part will be finding the ODA file for the 160Kw version.

edit, If I have this correct, your car is a right hand drive VS52 and you need software for VS12 that should be 7581280. Anyone care to confirm?

Last edited by rjahl; 09-20-2020 at 09:44 AM..
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      09-20-2020, 01:25 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
Never mind, these are both the latest ROM 921 files for the MSV70. not sure of the differences in these two files. Need to dig into the database.

Dead easy to write a powerclass fix, hardest part will be finding the ODA file for the 160Kw version.

edit, If I have this correct, your car is a right hand drive VS52 and you need software for VS12 that should be 7581280. Anyone care to confirm?
Thanks for the response. Yes RHD model code looks to be VB56 from this printout i have. If i can provide a ZB number from a MSV70 325i, would that help?
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      09-20-2020, 01:50 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by EvaBmw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
Never mind, these are both the latest ROM 921 files for the MSV70. not sure of the differences in these two files. Need to dig into the database.

Dead easy to write a powerclass fix, hardest part will be finding the ODA file for the 160Kw version.

edit, If I have this correct, your car is a right hand drive VS52 and you need software for VS12 that should be 7581280. Anyone care to confirm?
Thanks for the response. Yes RHD model code looks to be VB56 from this printout i have. If i can provide a ZB number from a MSV70 325i, would that help?
Yes, that will help
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