E90Post
 


European Auto Source (EAS)
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > L7 upgrade questions



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-10-2008, 09:39 PM   #1
pdjafari
Colonel
pdjafari's Avatar
81
Rep
2,400
Posts

Drives: Axe Murderer with headlights
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Earth

iTrader: (5)

L7 upgrade questions

So I've been researching the forums for various options on the L7 system which I would like to upgrade. The only thing I'm looking to do is upgrade the stock subs to the SWS 8s and add an amp.

However, it looks like in order to add an amp and avoid the possibility of hiss and messing up the L7's processing (LOCs are out of the question?).

From what I have read it looks like there's only 2 options.

1. Keep OEM amp, get a cleansweep, add an amp and 2 SWS 8s.

2. Purchase an balanced input capable amp (one that can take inputs directly from teh L7 HU) like the Alpine PDX-4.100. This would replace my OEM amp.

I would still need to buy 2 SWS 8s.

I am trying to decide which is the better option in terms of most cost effective as well as better sounding.

Hopefully somebody can chime in and provide some more detailed info.....

I have an 08 335xi and my car came with the L7
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2008, 10:49 PM   #2
Technic
Lieutenant General
Technic's Avatar
United_States
1319
Rep
12,208
Posts

Drives: 2015 320i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdjafari View Post
So I've been researching the forums for various options on the L7 system which I would like to upgrade. The only thing I'm looking to do is upgrade the stock subs to the SWS 8s and add an amp.

However, it looks like in order to add an amp and avoid the possibility of hiss and messing up the L7's processing (LOCs are out of the question?).

From what I have read it looks like there's only 2 options.

1. Keep OEM amp, get a cleansweep, add an amp and 2 SWS 8s.

2. Purchase an balanced input capable amp (one that can take inputs directly from teh L7 HU) like the Alpine PDX-4.100. This would replace my OEM amp.

I would still need to buy 2 SWS 8s.

I am trying to decide which is the better option in terms of most cost effective as well as better sounding.

Hopefully somebody can chime in and provide some more detailed info.....

I have an 08 335xi and my car came with the L7
1) There's no need for the Cleansweep if you are not upgrading the whole Logic7 system. If you are looking to add only the SWS-8 then you can get an aftermarket 2-channel amp with high level inputs or a separate LOC with any 2-channel amp.

2) The Logic7 amp inputs are digital, so you cannot replace the OEM amp with any existing aftermarket amp. You could add a Cleansweep or a 3SIXTY.2 to the OEM amp to remove all the Logic7 processing from the OEM amp outputs and produce a flat signal if you are upgrading the whole Logic7 system.

The very first thing that you need to decide is what kind of upgrade you want, just underseat subs and leaving the rest the same or all the OEM speakers and the OEM amp outputs processing.
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2008, 01:00 AM   #3
pdjafari
Colonel
pdjafari's Avatar
81
Rep
2,400
Posts

Drives: Axe Murderer with headlights
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Earth

iTrader: (5)

technic I'm actually looking to upgrade for some added bass to teh existing system. So I was looking at getting teh SWS 8s and an amp to add onto the existing amp/system.

Can you recommend a simple/easy setup?

First scenario (the easiest to install/less components) for install to add bass - what i'm looking for right now actually...

Second scenario, the above, but also gives room for growth (so an amp that could potentially later be used to run components that may be upgraded later on but not a necessity)

Thanks again
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2008, 08:51 PM   #4
clemsonkev
OOOO another former Audi B5 S4 owner OOOO
United_States
167
Rep
604
Posts

Drives: 2017 MG Manual M2
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Summerville SC

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via Yahoo to clemsonkev
ditto...
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2008, 09:31 PM   #5
Technic
Lieutenant General
Technic's Avatar
United_States
1319
Rep
12,208
Posts

Drives: 2015 320i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdjafari View Post
technic I'm actually looking to upgrade for some added bass to teh existing system. So I was looking at getting teh SWS 8s and an amp to add onto the existing amp/system.

Can you recommend a simple/easy setup?

First scenario (the easiest to install/less components) for install to add bass - what i'm looking for right now actually...

Second scenario, the above, but also gives room for growth (so an amp that could potentially later be used to run components that may be upgraded later on but not a necessity)

Thanks again
For a quick SWS-8 add on, you could get:

- Blaupunkt THA 275 PnP: http://www.blaupunkt.com/us/7607792129_main.asp
- a pair of SWS-8 in 2 ohms

To interconnect the Logic7 underseat woofers output to this amp you either need to get a Blaupunkt PnP harness (and cut the speaker connector that plugs into this amp) or a separate Line Output Converter (LOC) with a built in 12V remote turn on line.

Example:

- Get this PnP harness extension: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_....5+Meters.html

... and cut the 4 speaker wires input/output connectors to the amp; that's the only connector that you need. The trick here is that by wiring the Logic7 OEM amp underseat woofers output wires (4) into this PnP connector the THA 275 amp will "sense" the output of the OEM amp and then turn on. No need for a separate remote turn on wire, or RCA cables.

There is no signal sensing circuitry at the RCA inputs of this amp, only at the PnP speaker level connector input. That's the reason you will need that PnP connector in particular. You could use a pair of 4 pin Molex connectors instead of just cutting the Logic7 speaker outputs so you can be able to return the system to stock at any time.

If you get a decent 2-channel LOC with remote turn on to do the exact same connection it will require a 12V and a ground connection to the LOC and will have to get an stereo RCA cable to connect the LOC to the THA 275.

This set up done right will be able to give you a radical bass improvement over the OEM woofers, and a very nice complement to the rest of the Logic7 system. I would say, most of the E9x owners will be satisfied with this upgrade over getting a trunk sub.

Last edited by Technic; 12-01-2008 at 08:54 PM.. Reason: Major mistake in harness required
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2008, 02:36 PM   #6
pdjafari
Colonel
pdjafari's Avatar
81
Rep
2,400
Posts

Drives: Axe Murderer with headlights
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Earth

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
For a quick SWS-8 add on, you could get:

- Blaupunkt THA 275 PnP: http://www.blaupunkt.com/us/7607792129_main.asp
- a pair of SWS-8 in 2 ohms

To interconnect the Logic7 underseat woofers output to this amp you either need to get a Blaupunkt PnP harness (and cut the speaker connector that plugs into this amp) or a separate Line Output Converter (LOC) with a built in 12V remote turn on line.

Example:

- Get this PnP harness ($24.99)... http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...PNP017&tp=6348

... and cut the 4 speaker wires input connector to the amp; that's the only connector that you need. You may be asking yourself "what a waste of $25.00". The trick here is that by wiring the Logic7 OEM amp underseat woofers output wires (4) into this PnP connector the THA 275 amp will "sense" the output of the OEM amp and then turn on. No need for a separate remote turn on wire, or RCA cables.

There is no signal sensing circuitry at the RCA inputs of this amp, only at the PnP speaker level connector input. That's the reason you will need that PnP connector in particular. You could use a pair of 4 pin Molex connectors instead of just cutting the Logic7 speaker outputs so you can be able to return the system to stock at any time.

If you get a decent 2-channel LOC with remote turn on to do the exact same connection you could spend some $30.00 in the LOC, will have to make a 12V and a ground connection to the LOC and will have to get an stereo RCA cable to connect the LOC to the THA 275.

This set up done right will be able to give you a radical bass improvement over the OEM woofers, and a very nice complement to the rest of the Logic7 system. I would say, most of the E9x owners will be satisfied with this upgrade over getting a trunk sub.
Thanks for the response!! So in other words, I would add the BP 275 amp and buy that PnP harness. Once wired up, I would CUT the wires on the harness going to the BP275 amp (which I added) NOT the wires on my OEM amp correct!!!??? So in other words, the PnP harness only functions as a 'remote' wire for the BP amp!!! Thats pretty nifty!!

I think I know what you mean, but just wanted to clarify!!
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2008, 03:35 PM   #7
Technic
Lieutenant General
Technic's Avatar
United_States
1319
Rep
12,208
Posts

Drives: 2015 320i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdjafari View Post
Thanks for the response!! So in other words, I would add the BP 275 amp and buy that PnP harness. Once wired up, I would CUT the wires on the harness going to the BP275 amp (which I added) NOT the wires on my OEM amp correct!!!??? So in other words, the PnP harness only functions as a 'remote' wire for the BP amp!!! Thats pretty nifty!!

I think I know what you mean, but just wanted to clarify!!
That connectors that you need to cut from the harness extension below are the black 4-wire connectors shown:



Those connectors plugs into the THA 275 port labeled "PnP Input" and OUTPUT, as shown in this photo:



You will need to cut the output wires of the OEM amp underseat woofers (pins 8 and 18 for the left woofer, pins 6 and 16 for the right woofer) http://www.fdebrus.be/car/logic7.jpg ... and connect those 4 OEM amp output wires to this little connector that you just cut off from the main PnP harness.

The suggestion is to use Molex connectors instead of connecting wires by themselves between the OEM amp output wires and the small PnP connector for a cleaner installation, as shown in this thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=27

Once you do this connection the THA 275 will turn on once it "senses" the Logic7 underseat woofer outputs. Set the amplifier filters to off (no high or low pass), adjust the gain to taste and enjoy the new bass...

Last edited by Technic; 12-01-2008 at 08:58 PM.. Reason: Major mistake in harness required
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2008, 03:39 PM   #8
scampos1984
Spaniard member
Spain
3
Rep
197
Posts

Drives: E90 & E91 320d
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Madrid, Spain

iTrader: (0)

I think the 275 doesn't provide the ideal wattage to move the SWSs (it gives 1X190 = 2x95W RMS mono at 2ohm and these subs are supposed to receive 150W RMS).

Would it work okay with that power?
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2008, 03:50 PM   #9
CrimsonRedE93
Major
CrimsonRedE93's Avatar
United Kingdom
49
Rep
1,085
Posts

Drives: Le Mans Blue E93 330d+
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: West Sussex

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Most people use the Blaupunkt THA555 which has 5 channels, 4 of them used to replace the standard amplifier with the 5th channel to drive the subs, seperate wires have to be run from the THA555 to the subs, watch out the subs have to be run in stereo mode and also have to be 4 ohms as the sub channel on the THA555 cannot run in bridge mode when using the PNP wiring loom that plugs straight into the back of the headunit.
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2008, 03:58 PM   #10
pdjafari
Colonel
pdjafari's Avatar
81
Rep
2,400
Posts

Drives: Axe Murderer with headlights
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Earth

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
That connector that you need to cut from the harness below is one of the little connectors at the extreme right of that photo.



That connector plugs into the THA 275 port labeled "PnP Input", as shown in this photo:



You will need to cut the output wires of the OEM amp underseat woofers (pins 8 and 18 for the left woofer, pins 6 and 16 for the right woofer) http://www.fdebrus.be/car/logic7.jpg ... and connect those 4 OEM amp output wires to this little connector that you just cut off from the main PnP harness.

The suggestion is to use Molex connectors instead of connecting wires by themselves between the OEM amp output wires and the small PnP connector for a cleaner installation, as shown in this thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=27

Once you do this connection the THA 275 will turn on once it "senses" the Logic7 underseat woofer outputs. Set the amplifier filters to off (no high or low pass), adjust the gain to taste and enjoy the new bass...
Other than the 4 output wires from teh OEM amp you cut and 'splice' onto the PnP harness, which you pictured above, how else does the PnP harness attach to the OEM amp (if at all)? I'm just curious how the BP Pnp275 interfaces with the OEM L7 amp. Does the L7 amp have an input for the PnP harness?? Im curious how the HU signal is able to go from teh L7 to the BP 275.

EDIT, Just read your 2nd post in this thread.

"The trick here is that by wiring the Logic7 OEM amp underseat woofers output wires (4) into this PnP connector the THA 275 amp will "sense" the output of the OEM amp and then turn on. No need for a separate remote turn on wire, or RCA cables.

There is no signal sensing circuitry at the RCA inputs of this amp, only at the PnP speaker level connector input. That's the reason you will need that PnP connector in particular. You could use a pair of 4 pin Molex connectors instead of just cutting the Logic7 speaker outputs so you can be able to return the system to stock at any time."

Based on this, it sounds like the way the OEM HU/amp interface with the BP 275 are through the 4 wires of the Pnp connector. So really the only purpose of the PnP harness is to get the 'auto sensing' feature for the amp to turn on and at the same time obtain the signal from the HU/oem AMP

wow how times have changed
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2008, 04:52 PM   #11
Technic
Lieutenant General
Technic's Avatar
United_States
1319
Rep
12,208
Posts

Drives: 2015 320i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by scampos1984 View Post
I think the 275 doesn't provide the ideal wattage to move the SWSs (it gives 1X190 = 2x95W RMS mono at 2ohm and these subs are supposed to receive 150W RMS).

Would it work okay with that power?
It will work more than OK...
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2008, 04:58 PM   #12
Technic
Lieutenant General
Technic's Avatar
United_States
1319
Rep
12,208
Posts

Drives: 2015 320i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdjafari View Post
Based on this, it sounds like the way the OEM HU/amp interface with the BP 275 are through the 4 wires of the Pnp connector. So really the only purpose of the PnP harness is to get the 'auto sensing' feature for the amp to turn on and at the same time obtain the signal from the HU/oem AMP

wow how times have changed
Yes, indeed... the OP's desire is a "simple and easy set up", so that means to me "less wiring as possible".

That is: power, ground and 4 inputs and 4 outputs wires. The OEM wiring can be kept, as it is a short run of 16 gauge to the woofers.

The amp compact size allows installation behind the trunk liner or under the trunk floor, so that is frosting.
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2008, 05:31 PM   #13
scampos1984
Spaniard member
Spain
3
Rep
197
Posts

Drives: E90 & E91 320d
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Madrid, Spain

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
It will work more than OK...
I'll install the Pnp 555, so I guess the fifth channel will be more than enough to power my SWSs. 125W RMS per sub

Thanks
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2008, 06:07 PM   #14
Technic
Lieutenant General
Technic's Avatar
United_States
1319
Rep
12,208
Posts

Drives: 2015 320i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

iTrader: (18)

In this particular case, the THA555 doesn't apply to the OP's plan. First, this is for a Logic7 system so the PnP harness cannot be used with this OEM HU (there are no analog outputs at the back of the OEM HU), nor the OEM amp can be replaced as it is a digital inputs amp.

Second, the Logic7 system has 13 speakers so the 5 channels of the THA555 are not enough, even if it is used after the OEM amp. In this particular case, only 2 channels are needed and not 5, so less need for the THA555

Third, the 5th channel of the THA555 is 2 ohms stable, so a pair of SWS-8 in 4 ohms can be driven in parallel; a bridged configuration is not applicable. It is not required to run separate wires, as this parallel connection can be easily made at the OEM amp connector using the OEM wires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonRedE93 View Post
Most people use the Blaupunkt THA555 which has 5 channels, 4 of them used to replace the standard amplifier with the 5th channel to drive the subs, seperate wires have to be run from the THA555 to the subs, watch out the subs have to be run in stereo mode and also have to be 4 ohms as the sub channel on the THA555 cannot run in bridge mode when using the PNP wiring loom that plugs straight into the back of the headunit.
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2008, 06:09 PM   #15
Technic
Lieutenant General
Technic's Avatar
United_States
1319
Rep
12,208
Posts

Drives: 2015 320i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by scampos1984 View Post
I'll install the Pnp 555, so I guess the fifth channel will be more than enough to power my SWSs. 125W RMS per sub

Thanks
It will... member rambino used to run this amp in a 335i and now is running it in an M6 for his SWS-8's. It is a very good amp...
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2008, 01:58 AM   #16
scampos1984
Spaniard member
Spain
3
Rep
197
Posts

Drives: E90 & E91 320d
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Madrid, Spain

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
It will... member rambino used to run this amp in a 335i and now is running it in an M6 for his SWS-8's. It is a very good amp...
I read Rambino

We'll se how it sounds
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2008, 08:17 AM   #17
CrimsonRedE93
Major
CrimsonRedE93's Avatar
United Kingdom
49
Rep
1,085
Posts

Drives: Le Mans Blue E93 330d+
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: West Sussex

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
In this particular case, the THA555 doesn't apply to the OP's plan. First, this is for a Logic7 system so the PnP harness cannot be used with this OEM HU (there are no analog outputs at the back of the OEM HU), nor the OEM amp can be replaced as it is a digital inputs amp.

Second, the Logic7 system has 13 speakers so the 5 channels of the THA555 are not enough, even if it is used after the OEM amp. In this particular case, only 2 channels are needed and not 5, so less need for the THA555

Third, the 5th channel of the THA555 is 2 ohms stable, so a pair of SWS-8 in 4 ohms can be driven in parallel; a bridged configuration is not applicable. It is not required to run separate wires, as this parallel connection can be easily made at the OEM amp connector using the OEM wires.
Fair point Technic, I was really responding to scampos1984 and not the logic 7 installation.

And the quoted 4 Ohms minimum for the 5th channel is quoted from the manual
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2008, 03:24 PM   #18
scampos1984
Spaniard member
Spain
3
Rep
197
Posts

Drives: E90 & E91 320d
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Madrid, Spain

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonRedE93 View Post
Fair point Technic, I was really responding to scampos1984 and not the logic 7 installation.

And the quoted 4 Ohms minimum for the 5th channel is quoted from the manual
Really ??? Could you say where?
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2008, 03:25 PM   #19
pdjafari
Colonel
pdjafari's Avatar
81
Rep
2,400
Posts

Drives: Axe Murderer with headlights
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Earth

iTrader: (5)

Just to verify, the L7 subs are 4 ohm correct? I want to purchase SWS8s but wasnt sure with that setup whether to run the 2ohm or 4 ohm versions
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2008, 04:25 PM   #20
Technic
Lieutenant General
Technic's Avatar
United_States
1319
Rep
12,208
Posts

Drives: 2015 320i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdjafari View Post
Just to verify, the L7 subs are 4 ohm correct? I want to purchase SWS8s but wasnt sure with that setup whether to run the 2ohm or 4 ohm versions
If you are running those SWS-8 with the OEM amp then 4 ohms is correct.

However, if you are going to run them with an aftermarket amp you could get either the 4 ohms or the 2 ohms as long as the amp is stable (stereo) at 2 ohms. If you plan to wire these SWS-8 in parallel then only the 4 ohms will work and only if that amp also is stable (mono) at 2 ohms.
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2008, 05:20 PM   #21
CrimsonRedE93
Major
CrimsonRedE93's Avatar
United Kingdom
49
Rep
1,085
Posts

Drives: Le Mans Blue E93 330d+
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: West Sussex

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by scampos1984 View Post
Really ??? Could you say where?
You have to read the amplifer spec in detail and piece it all together, all the info is there somwhere.

If you are using the PNP cable as People who have the THA555 normally are you cannot use bridge mode so Fig 5 shows the only possible stereo sub connections using 2 x 4 Ohm speakers, also if you look in the power table is states 4 Ohm minimum on the sub channel.

No more thread jacking now
Attached Images
    
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2008, 05:51 PM   #22
pdjafari
Colonel
pdjafari's Avatar
81
Rep
2,400
Posts

Drives: Axe Murderer with headlights
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Earth

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
If you are running those SWS-8 with the OEM amp then 4 ohms is correct.

However, if you are going to run them with an aftermarket amp you could get either the 4 ohms or the 2 ohms as long as the amp is stable (stereo) at 2 ohms. If you plan to wire these SWS-8 in parallel then only the 4 ohms will work and only if that amp also is stable (mono) at 2 ohms.
Which option would you take assuming I use the blaupunkt 275?? Thanks again Technic!

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_023THA2...ures_and_specs

Based on those specs, I would guess the ideal setup would be 2 SWS8s in 4 ohms in a bridged setup???
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:49 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST