[x77md]

Hi all

Im having VRSF Downpipes, Chargepipe, DCIs & 1 Step colder NGK sparks fitted this week readying the car ready for MHD stage 2 ~370/380bhp

Next weekend I'm taking the car on a road trip which will involve some spirited driving. Since I haven't gone for the intercooler on this install (7.5" and inlets/outlets penned for beginning of October ) - I'm wondering if i'll experience a significant amount of heat soak / overheating during the drive?

Has anybody struggled without the upgraded intercooler when stage 2 with MHD?

[Chapperss]

I struggled with intake temps on stage 1 on a hot day - that`s lots of pulls in a row though (have a nice section of 4 roundabouts on a duel carriageway to blatt down) with 30 seconds between pulls.

Also when sitting in traffic booting it straight after would also cause issues.

I`d imagine stage 2 would be worse. Saying that, it was manageable so i`d still go for it.

[x77md]

Originally Posted by Chapperss

I struggled with intake temps on stage 1 on a hot day - that`s lots of pulls in a row though (have a nice section of 4 roundabouts on a duel carriageway to blatt down) with 30 seconds between pulls.

Also when sitting in traffic booting it straight after would also cause issues.

I`d imagine stage 2 would be worse. Saying that, it was manageable so i`d still go for it.

I don't think it's going to go beyond 20C over the next two weeks and I'm going up north which should be cooler anyway.

Will try see if I can find an intercooler and get it fitted within the next week before the trip rather than delay it. Whilst I'm not mechanically gifted the intercooler install does look pretty simple compared to DPs etc

[Chapperss]

Originally Posted by x77md

I don't think it's going to go beyond 20C over the next two weeks and I'm going up north which should be cooler anyway.

Will try see if I can find an intercooler and get it fitted within the next week before the trip rather than delay it. Whilst I'm not mechanically gifted the intercooler install does look pretty simple compared to DPs etc

Yes, it`s very easy. Some are plug and play. Plenty of topics you can check as to which ones require mods or are straight swaps. Straight swaps are - undo clamps on hoses, remove two torx screws (not even bolts),remove and then do again in reverse.

If you don't get one and it does get to hot you will get a boost pressure to high code and limp mode/turbo deactivation.

If you have a code reader such as the one on MHD, you can leave it plugged in and on, then scan and reset codes on the fly. Everything will go back to normal and then back off for a bit to let it cool down. No need to stop the car

Hope you have great trip

[x77md]

Originally Posted by Chapperss

Yes, it`s very easy. Some are plug and play. Plenty of topics you can check as to which ones require mods or are straight swaps. Straight swaps are - undo clamps on hoses, remove two torx screws (not even bolts),remove and then do again in reverse.

If you don't get one and it does get to hot you will get a boost pressure to high code and limp mode/turbo deactivation.

If you have a code reader such as the one on MHD, you can leave it plugged in and on, then scan and reset codes on the fly. Everything will go back to normal and then back off for a bit to let it cool down. No need to stop the car

Hope you have great trip

Thanks for the advice buddy. I'm definitely going to get the tablet stand and monitor parameters during the journey.

Is there a significant difference between the various intercoolers available on the market?

I've seen the Chinese eBay intercooler work pretty well on zeroto60 whilst the Indy specialist swears by the German brands.

[Chapperss]

Originally Posted by x77md

Thanks for the advice buddy. I'm definitely going to get the tablet stand and monitor parameters during the journey.

Is there a significant difference between the various intercoolers available on the market?

I've seen the Chinese eBay intercooler work pretty well on zeroto60 whilst the Indy specialist swears by the German brands.

You are welcome.

That right there is a can of worms and 1000`s of posts arguing one way and the other. The majority say go for a known named brand.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1232613 < Nice 32 page thread on this topic for you

Personally I managed to find a cheap 2nd hand Wagner after 6 months of waiting/looking and was determined to buy a good name.

If I had gone new, I would have bought MTC`s £280 one as it`s a UK brand. VRSF was a strong contender but I found it pricey because of the shipping.

[x77md]

Originally Posted by Chapperss

You are welcome.

That right there is a can of worms and 1000`s of posts arguing one way and the other. The majority say go for a known named brand.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1232613 < Nice 32 page thread on this topic for you

Personally I managed to find a cheap 2nd hand Wagner after 6 months of waiting/looking and was determined to buy a good name.

If I had gone new, I would have bought MTC`s £280 one as it`s a UK brand. VRSF was a strong contender but I found it pricey because of the shipping.

Are MTC intercoolers the same as Chinese eBay ones or are they actually developed in house?

My local garage doesn't really fit I/C other than Wagner… but the MTC seems like a good easy fit at 5"

Edit:

I did a bit of digging and it seems like some of the 135i owners on babybmw have tested the unit. Looks like a Chinese Intercooler but has mixed reviews with one stating it did nothing for IATs.

Might just go for Wagner to be on the safe side and it seems like I'll have to wait a few weeks for it to arrive.

[Chapperss]

Originally Posted by x77md

Are MTC intercoolers the same as Chinese eBay .

I remember reading that somewhere too. Something about Chinese core but MTC put cast ends on or something.

With the price and the claims they make I was willing to give it a punt - would very quickly be able to tell if it was BS or not and get it sent back.

Can`t go wrong with Wagner although you do pay for it £££

[x77md]

Originally Posted by Chapperss

I remember reading that somewhere too. Something about Chinese core but MTC put cast ends on or something.

With the price and the claims they make I was willing to give it a punt - would very quickly be able to tell if it was BS or not and get it sent back.

Can`t go wrong with Wagner although you do pay for it £££

That's very true… £280 is a good 200 less than the Wagner evo1, both 5"

I might just try it out and like you said, it's easy to know if it will work or not

Might see if I can get it before the trip and a pair of ramps to get the job done

Edit:

Spoke to the MTC chap and he's offered me the 5.5" stepped I/C for £330 delivered so I've taken the punt and document/log once fitted.

[Chapperss]

Heck yeah dude. Exciting times!

[x77md]

The MTC stepped intercooler just arrived. Thought i'd upload some pics incase it may prove useful to anybody else.

[x77md]

Some more here..

[CarAbuser]

That's identical to the Chinese intercoolers available on eBay and AliExpress.

MTC is just a spurious brand that they apply to imported Chinese parts. It's not that bad of a deal, they normally cost £200 so you've paid a £80 premium for fast delivery and local customer service.

I used one of those intercoolers for a couple of years. It's better than the stock one but it does struggle with higher boost maps. I think once you start pushing past 17PSI on stock turbos then it struggles.

I have since upgraded to a CSF intercooler and my IATs actually drop during a pull. With the China one I was seeing a 20C rise in intake temps.

[x77md]

Originally Posted by CarAbuser

That's identical to the Chinese intercoolers available on eBay and AliExpress.

MTC is just a spurious brand that they apply to imported Chinese parts. It's not that bad of a deal, they normally cost £200 so you've paid a £80 premium for fast delivery and local customer service.

I used one of those intercoolers for a couple of years. It's better than the stock one but it does struggle with higher boost maps. I think once you start pushing past 17PSI on stock turbos then it struggles.

I have since upgraded to a CSF intercooler and my IATs actually drop during a pull. With the China one I was seeing a 20C rise in intake temps.

Yeah they do look alike… but are they the exact same as in identical?

I was told the core is the same as the Chinese and the end tanks are not. My issue is with the lack of homogeneity amongst the fins or whatever you call them across the front. I'm not sure if that's a characteristic of all intercoolers but I would have thought the sizes/folds whatever it is should all be standardised.

Like you said, these are probably ok for a stage 2+ but as I'm eventually going to have a custom map done it may not be sufficient…

I'm waiting on a quote for a Wagner 5" I/C which is still on the cards so if that comes through and I don't have to wait a month then I may just pull the trigger on one. Although I'm curious as to how a standard Evo1 I/c from Wagner would fare against this.

One thing for sure is the customer service and rapid delivery is awesome.

[CarAbuser]

Originally Posted by x77md

Yeah they do look alike… but are they the exact same as in identical?

I was told the core is the same as the Chinese and the end tanks are not. My issue is with the lack of homogeneity amongst the fins or whatever you call them across the front. I'm not sure if that's a characteristic of all intercoolers but I would have thought the sizes/folds whatever it is should all be standardised.

Like you said, these are probably ok for a stage 2+ but as I'm eventually going to have a custom map done it may not be sufficient…

I'm waiting on a quote for a Wagner 5" I/C which is still on the cards so if that comes through and I don't have to wait a month then I may just pull the trigger on one. Although I'm curious as to how a standard Evo1 I/c from Wagner would fare against this.

One thing for sure is the customer service and rapid delivery is awesome.

End tanks look exactly the same. Not that end tank changes would greatly increase the ability of the intercooler though.

From what I've seen of the smaller Wagner intercoolers they don't perform much better than the Chinese copies. I've also tried the BMS 5" intercooler and that was about the same.

The CSF one was a bit of a revelation. I didn't think it would be possible to keep IAT flat during a pull without getting one of those massive intercoolers that obstructs the radiator but it keeps my IAT flat even at 20PSI on the stock turbos.

[x77md]

Originally Posted by CarAbuser

End tanks look exactly the same. Not that end tank changes would greatly increase the ability of the intercooler though.

From what I've seen of the smaller Wagner intercoolers they don't perform much better than the Chinese copies. I've also tried the BMS 5" intercooler and that was about the same.

The CSF one was a bit of a revelation. I didn't think it would be possible to keep IAT flat during a pull without getting one of those massive intercoolers that obstructs the radiator but it keeps my IAT flat even at 20PSI on the stock turbos.

Well, Damn. What would you recommend then out of the Intercoolers you have tried - for me as I'm only intending to go FBO custom map at the moment?

isn't the BMS one the same as Phoenix aka Chinese I/C?

What sets the CSF apart from the others then, why does it manage to keep IATs down when others cannot? Can you explain it to me?

[CarAbuser]

All of the cores are likely produced in China. The BMS one was much higher quality than the generic chinese ebay one though. The ebay one had a few stone chips after a year and I could see the metal underneath was starting to oxidise. The BMS one was unpainted aluminium and still looks new after a couple of winters.

I'd just get the CSF one. Cooler intake temps are always better regardless of mods. It's also nice having something visible at the front of the car that isn't cheap tat. Seeing the eBay intercooler through my front bumper made my feel like a cheap-skate.

The reason for the better cooling on the CSF is probably a combination of build quality, core construction and slight design improvements and the fact it's quite a bit larger. The CSF one is bar and plate and the chinese ones are all tube and fin which probably makes the biggest difference.

[x77md]

Originally Posted by CarAbuser

All of the cores are likely produced in China. The BMS one was much higher quality than the generic chinese ebay one though. The ebay one had a few stone chips after a year and I could see the metal underneath was starting to oxidise. The BMS one was unpainted aluminium and still looks new after a couple of winters.

I'd just get the CSF one. Cooler intake temps are always better regardless of mods. It's also nice having something visible at the front of the car that isn't cheap tat. Seeing the eBay intercooler through my front bumper made my feel like a cheap-skate.

The reason for the better cooling on the CSF is probably a combination of build quality, core construction and slight design improvements and the fact it's quite a bit larger. The CSF one is bar and plate and the chinese ones are all tube and fin which probably makes the biggest difference.

Interesting. The CSF looks a good product, curious as to whether OEM hosing is an issue - one of the VRSF chaps or BMS chaps in the forums keeps banging on about how VRSF doesn't use OEM fittings. Any idea if that affects cooling/flow?

I think I may have spoke to soon about good customer service - I asked about the MTC return policy and because he's done a deal apparently there isn't one!

[Chapperss]

Originally Posted by x77md

I think I may have spoke to soon about good customer service - I asked about the MTC return policy and because he's done a deal apparently there isn't one!

Well he`s not telling you the truth there.

Distance selling rules

Consumer cancellation rights and the distance selling cooling off period. When purchasing as a result of a distance sale, your customers have the right to cancel their purchase within fourteen days of the date they receive the goods, or the durable confirmation, whichever comes later

[CarAbuser]

Originally Posted by x77md

Interesting. The CSF looks a good product, curious as to whether OEM hosing is an issue - one of the VRSF chaps or BMS chaps in the forums keeps banging on about how VRSF doesn't use OEM fittings. Any idea if that affects cooling/flow?

I think I may have spoke to soon about good customer service - I asked about the MTC return policy and because he's done a deal apparently there isn't one!

I've also seen the same claims from people that produce intercoolers that require silicon couplers.

There might be some truth in the stock connectors being restrictive at high power levels (so relevant if you have some massive turbos) but I think the main reason for them not offering a stock connector option is that the stock connectors are more expensive to produce and require more precision when it comes to fabrication. With the stock connectors there's no room for error but silicon tubes and hose clamps cover a lot of sins.

Personally I hate the look of silicon connectors and hose clamps. It's cheap looking at can also pop off.

Chappers is right about the return. You might have to pay return shipping but they are obliged to refund you if the item is unused. Was it ordered off ML performance?

[x77md]

Yeah that might be why all the high power N54s end up using the VRSF 7.5" then with its own coupler design.

I don't plan to go that far and just FBO - I think I'm between Wagner EVO2 comp & CSF currently or really overkill 7.5" but I personally wouldn't want to put such a big piece of kit on for a ~500bhp car at the end of it all.

Hopefully pull some data logs with the stock Intercooler on just MHD Stage 2 this weekend and then once I get the right intercooler installed I'll go 2+ and more logs to see the difference.

I've sent him a text and I'm waiting for his response. Funny thing is I've even offered to drop it off in person to his unit as I'll be going past there on Friday afternoon… regardless, acting this way speaks volumes

[P14kle]

out of interest, what size are the inlet and outlet on that intercooler?? (Inside diameter please in mm)

Are they the same size?

Thanks.