E90Post
 


Extreme Powerhouse
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Dyno Results: Torque Targeting Doomsday maps



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-11-2008, 08:49 PM   #1
OpenFlash
United_States
1446
Rep
17,960
Posts

Drives: A Lot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Exclamation Dyno Results: Torque Targeting Doomsday maps

Car Details:
MSD81 335 6MT
Vishnu Cat-back
RR catless downpipes
Forge Diverter Valves
Helix FMIC
91 octane Chevron (not even a drop of race gas or octane boost)


Stock vs. Stg 0, Stg 1, Stg2 and Stg3 maps:


PROcede Datalog of Dynorun #314:


On the Dyno
For the first time, we're witnessing the true VE profile of the engine. No longer are there any significant run-to-run inconsistencies/variances. There are no significant dips in the power curve. There is no misfire or any signs of strain. Basically, now that we are able to help the ECU target the desired torque output, there is no hunting-induced throttle closures.

On the Road
This is the cool part. You would never how much your previous tunes failed you until you test drive this new map. Other tunes will literally lose 10-30lbfts of torque on the road, in big "chunks", as you rev out the engine. These drop-outs are caused by throttle closure which is caused by the ECU miserably failing to hit the ever-moving load targets (as you shift, move the gas pedal around, etc,.)

I have emailed these maps to a dozen or so people last night for road testing. They are more aggressive than the super conservative Stg 0 demo map that we posted up yesterday (and demo'd at the Taste Test day) I'll be emailing them another version of those maps specifically for 6AT applications (they have different throttle logic from the factory and require a slightly different approach).

Seriously... I'm really excited. With what we've learned and discovered recently, it's like tuning a whole different kind of car.

For those who already have a tune that they are happy with, don't test drive a PROcede running the new mapping logic

From another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkashoe View Post
Im confused, if all that was changed (and correct me if Im wrong) was that there are no sudden throttle closures, how are all these reviews indicating more power down low?????
Because they are finally putting down to the road what they put down on the dyno. With previous tunes, they would put down fine dyno numbers because the input throttle conditions (load targets) are stable and constant (WOT from 2000rpm to redline).

But you don't drive like that on the road. On the road, you are constantly changing the throttle positing and then relying on the factory ECU to "zero in" on the desired load target by adjusting boost, timing, valve timing and throttle. With previous tunes, the ECU had a hard time doing and fluttered around the torque target. This would reduce torque and blur transients. This is why previous tunes that made 370lbft of torque on the dyno didn't quite feel like 370lbft of torque on the road. Your seat of the pants were not deceiving you.

Now that is all fixed. Enjoy what will now feel like a different car.

Cheers,
Shiv
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 08:58 PM   #2
shyestsparks
Captain
20
Rep
824
Posts

Drives: 335i sedan, 02 Altima VQ35DE-T
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ca

iTrader: (5)

Nice; Shiv, Is it a possibility for me to test your stage 3 map (I do have all the requirements)? Thanks a lot.
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 08:59 PM   #3
cn555ic
cn555ic's Avatar
United_States
373
Rep
18,332
Posts

Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: US

iTrader: (6)

Send a message via Yahoo to cn555ic
"For those who already have a tune that they are happy with, don't test drive a PROcede running the new mapping logic"

lolol....Wow those 8 runs are identical in almost every single aspect....They are so predictable!! That is awesome Shiv!
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 09:00 PM   #4
OpenFlash
United_States
1446
Rep
17,960
Posts

Drives: A Lot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyestsparks View Post
Nice; Shiv, Is it a possibility for me to test your stage 3 map (I do have all the requirements)? Thanks a lot.
PM'd you.
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 09:05 PM   #5
GreenBeret
Banned
3
Rep
358
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 & E92 335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Training

iTrader: (0)

Which runs on the map are stg 0 1 2 and 3? Also what are the main differences between the stgs? (im assuming modifications?)
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 09:17 PM   #6
OpenFlash
United_States
1446
Rep
17,960
Posts

Drives: A Lot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenBeret View Post
Which runs on the map are stg 0 1 2 and 3? Also what are the main differences between the stgs? (im assuming modifications?)
As you go up the stages, a few things happen:

1) Peak boot target is raised
2) Boost taper above 6000rpm is reduced
3) IAT compensations are made more aggressive
4) Timing maps become more aggressive

The idea behind that is, as you add free flow exhaust upgrades, the less exhaust backpressure there is. Or in the case of upgraded dual intakes, the friendlier the turbo's operational pressure ratio. All this means is that the turbo works less hard to move the same mass airflow. Which means that you can raise the boost a bit without spinning it harder. Less backpressure also means less exhaust gas reversion which means cooler in-cylinder temps which allows for more ignition advance (which we actually control with the PROcede).

In the dyno results posted above, Stg 0 is represented by the 379whp run. Stg 1, 2 and 3 all made about the same power (385-390whp) due to cooling/air contamination issues on the dyno. With a proper dyno cell (with fresh air ducting and 80mph fans), we'd see more of a difference between the higher stages. It's just that the lame dyno conditions don't support back-to-back 15+psi runs very well on 91 octane

Cheers,
shiv
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 09:20 PM   #7
kenneth
Major General
kenneth's Avatar
Canada
117
Rep
8,734
Posts

Drives: 335i Sedan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (16)

Nice curves, and power doesn't drop much at 6500rpms.
__________________
SB, Terra, 6MT. Only a few mods here and there.....nothing extreme!
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 09:24 PM   #8
GreenBeret
Banned
3
Rep
358
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 & E92 335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Training

iTrader: (0)

Would you say stg 3 is running 15.5 psi? ( i ask because you said 15+) Also this is v81 and 29.2+ compatible since you said they were doomsday maps right?
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 09:26 PM   #9
OpenFlash
United_States
1446
Rep
17,960
Posts

Drives: A Lot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
Nice curves, and power doesn't drop much at 6500rpms.
Actually, we drop it off up there a bit more than we used to. Now that we are paying a lot of attention to absolute throttle and what the factory ECU is targeting, we know where to be aggressive and where to be conservative. And the usual approach of cramming boost down the engine (when the throttle is mostly closed (like above 6500rpm) isn't so appealing anymore

Cheers,
shiv
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 09:27 PM   #10
OpenFlash
United_States
1446
Rep
17,960
Posts

Drives: A Lot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenBeret View Post
Would you say stg 3 is running 15.5 psi? ( i ask because you said 15+) Also this is v81 and 29.2+ compatible since you said they were doomsday maps right?
Yep.. depend on how your boost gauge is calibrate, you will see 15-15.5psi on your boost gauge. And yep, it has all been tested on our test cars to be 29.2/MSD81 compatible.
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 09:31 PM   #11
shyestsparks
Captain
20
Rep
824
Posts

Drives: 335i sedan, 02 Altima VQ35DE-T
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ca

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
PM'd you.
Replied. Thx.
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 09:32 PM   #12
GreenBeret
Banned
3
Rep
358
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 & E92 335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Training

iTrader: (0)

With 93 octane would the unit compensate more aggressively then (im assuming/pull more timing)? With the race gas maps what would you say the normal boost would be reading? also the race gas maps you came out with are those just for the v3 or are you utilizing them on the RevII or creating new ones?
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 09:40 PM   #13
lawdude
Colonel
lawdude's Avatar
United_States
69
Rep
2,319
Posts

Drives: 335i ZPP ZSP TiAg MT
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Georgia

iTrader: (1)

I've heard reports of significant drop-off in power prior to redline with the demo map. Any truth to that?
__________________
What do I know? I'm insane.
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 09:49 PM   #14
Driver72
Brigadier General
208
Rep
4,484
Posts

Drives: 335i - to new owners now.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

That horsepower curve looks nice.
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 10:08 PM   #15
OpenFlash
United_States
1446
Rep
17,960
Posts

Drives: A Lot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
I've heard reports of significant drop-off in power prior to redline with the demo map. Any truth to that?
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 10:20 PM   #16
M3to335
Whats that smell?
M3to335's Avatar
United_States
87
Rep
1,771
Posts

Drives: 135i, m435
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Your basement

iTrader: (6)

Looks good Cant wait to try that out someday (hopefully sooner than later)
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 10:22 PM   #17
TheAcAvenger
Brigadier General
TheAcAvenger's Avatar
United_States
101
Rep
3,122
Posts

Drives: 2015 F82 M4 / 2007 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: From 757 to NoVA

iTrader: (1)

It's supposed to be sunny for the first time all week tomorrow. It's going to be a very, very good Friday
__________________
2015 F82 M4 | 2007 E92 335i - TC Kline DA Coilovers, HPA M3 Suspension Retrofit, Quaife LSD, Stoptech 6/4 BBK, AR Downpipes, RDSport Quads, Stett OC, RB Turbos, JB4, FuelIT LPFP, Helix IC, Volk TE-37s, M-Tech Sides, OEM Aero Lip, Rieger Spoiler, Vorsteiner V-35 Hood, Performance Steering Wheel, OSS Headlights
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 10:39 PM   #18
Sniz
Lieutenant General
Sniz's Avatar
445
Rep
10,595
Posts

Drives: e92 335 - gone // e36 M3 turbo
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ellicott City, MD

iTrader: (1)

fantastic looking dyno's. Hope I get to try these maps out.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 10:40 PM   #19
OpenFlash
United_States
1446
Rep
17,960
Posts

Drives: A Lot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
fantastic looking dyno's. Hope I get to try these maps out.
PM me your email address
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 10:46 PM   #20
Sniz
Lieutenant General
Sniz's Avatar
445
Rep
10,595
Posts

Drives: e92 335 - gone // e36 M3 turbo
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ellicott City, MD

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
PM me your email address

I will once I have a car to load the maps into....
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 10:48 PM   #21
OpenFlash
United_States
1446
Rep
17,960
Posts

Drives: A Lot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
I will once I have a car to load the maps into....
Ohhh that's right
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2008, 11:01 PM   #22
sflgator
Major General
sflgator's Avatar
115
Rep
5,389
Posts

Drives: '09 MB C63 AMG & '08 MB GL450
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: U.S.

iTrader: (1)

Shiv,

Looking to try Stage 1 (6AT) map; you have my e-mail address. Then, non-doomsday Stage 1 would be the final map.
__________________

|2009 RENNtech MB C63 AMG | Black/Black Leather/Black Maple | Premium II | MultiMedia | iPod |
| TeleAid | Charcoal Filter Delete | BMC High-Flow Air Filters | High-Flow Secondary Cats | Clear Side Markers |
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:12 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST