E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Porterfield R4-S Pads are fast



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-01-2009, 12:49 PM   #1
satakal
Major
satakal's Avatar
66
Rep
1,476
Posts

Drives: e46
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: socal

iTrader: (2)

Porterfield R4-S Pads are fast

I don't like to spend money my car. I prefer to spend money on seat time. But, after I got a talk from my tech about how he doesn't know how long free brakes every 5k miles will last, I was pushed to do something. Instead of buying BMW pads, I opted to see what HPAutowerks had on the shelf for my 335.

Recently, I've pulled back on how hard I push at the big-track. Previous to about 5 events ago, I would go out there with the goal of getting the tires to talk to me at nearly 95% of their traction limit. Now, I'm driving at right below the point where the tires talk to me. I'm basically slowing down to go faster. Also, as I discovered over the weekend, I'm not good with having braking markers and I still have room for improvement with my brake application. I say all this as a long asterisk to the idea that the stock pads are the weak point in the BMW brakes. I think if I was a better driver, and yes I know that means carrying more speed into braking zones, the stock pads would not overheat.

On the last day of a 3 day driving bonanza, I had my gf install Porter field R4S on all four corners of my car. They were noticeably different than the stock pads. For 2 days, I was very accustomed to the amount of pedal pressure to threshold brake on the stock pads. On the 3rd day, with new pads, that same amount of pedal pressure gave almost as much slowing as the stock pads. At first, I thought it had something to do with my having bedded in the pads just an hour or two prior. Or maybe they need to get some heat into them to work at full potential. But, after my first few attempts to get on the brakes a car or two deeper than the previous lap, I found that the pads have a second level of grab. When I would have that oh-shit moment in my head where I realize I'm not gonna get whoa'd down in time and I give it more pedal, which would usually lead to ABS kicking in on the stock pads, the Porterfields bit in harder, making up for my lack of skill. Or, times when I planned on giving it 9/10 braking from the start of the braking zone, the car would just stand on its nose, and I'd get slowed down in time for a super clean turn-in with no drama.

I think a reason why I haven't learned to pick up visual braking markers is: every braking zone with the stock pads at their limit is an adventure. By that I mean the stock pads don't feel identical from one angry lap to the next. Sometimes they are sufficiently cooled down and I end up getting too much braking done too soon. That results in having to coast to turn-in. Or, the pads will overheat/fade mid way through threshold braking and I'll have a mini panic attack that may or may not involve some ABS and/or scrubbing through entry. These Porterfield pads were consistent every time. Which I think is a pretty big deal at the real "fastest road in the west".

Anecdote: First session on Sunday, I was getting accustomed to the pads cause I didn't know what to expect. Second session, I should have been black flagged because of my confidence/comfort in the braking zones. I would close up from 100 feet back to half car length in the big braking zones. I was told by my instructor that: "all the instructors were watching you and talking about your lack of etiquette in that session. Being that close is not ok at this level. Donít be surprised if the Chief Driving Instructor pulls you aside."

Thatís kinda all that my skill level was aware of in terms of differences between stock and Porterfield R4-S:
  • More pedal pressure = more bite = shorter stopping distances
  • Consistent feel through 1/2 hour sessions with multiple 4th/5th gear to 2nd gear braking zones
  • Pads didn't overheat like the stock pads
  • Although no timing was being run, I'm positive I was a second or more quicker with these over the stock pads
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2009, 03:47 PM   #2
SV Concepts III
Lieutenant General
324
Rep
17,017
Posts

Drives: BMW Duh
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Santa Clara

iTrader: (13)

Send a message via AIM to SV Concepts III
That's a great review, I've run these pads on my E46 and was real happy with the result. The low dust is a plus too.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2009, 12:09 PM   #3
HP Autosport
General
United_States
2648
Rep
41,060
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com

iTrader: (35)

Excellent!
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2009, 04:34 PM   #4
longodj
Major
longodj's Avatar
United_States
56
Rep
1,288
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2007 335xi  [0.00]
1974 VW Beetle  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to longodj
I run R4Es in the rear and they're great. Very consistent. Watch getting that close though, it can get interesting
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2009, 11:04 PM   #5
HP Autosport
General
United_States
2648
Rep
41,060
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com

iTrader: (35)

Satakal,

How is the brake dust level for street use? More or less than oem pads?

Harold
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2009, 01:40 AM   #6
MuchMoore
Colonel
MuchMoore's Avatar
United_States
73
Rep
2,320
Posts

Drives: 08 E90 335i
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CenFla

iTrader: (28)

Send a message via AIM to MuchMoore
Any noise?
__________________
| Andrew | M Technik | BMW Performance | BBS | Forge | V1 | LUX | Bilstein | Precision-Sport |
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2009, 08:44 AM   #7
satakal
Major
satakal's Avatar
66
Rep
1,476
Posts

Drives: e46
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: socal

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
Satakal,

How is the brake dust level for street use? More or less than oem pads?

Harold
For street use, the brake dust is the same or less than factory pads. Its been three weeks since I've washed my daily driver wheels and nothing looks out of the ordinary.

I think its really cool that the "cold feel" of the brakes is identical to stock. The only noticable difference in performance is that they get better the harder you stand on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuchMoore View Post
Any noise?
Same as stock. Zero. Even with forgetting to use no-squeek lube goo when installing.
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2009, 12:10 PM   #8
HP Autosport
General
United_States
2648
Rep
41,060
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com

iTrader: (35)

Quote:
Originally Posted by satakal View Post
For street use, the brake dust is the same or less than factory pads. Its been three weeks since I've washed my daily driver wheels and nothing looks out of the ordinary.

I think its really cool that the "cold feel" of the brakes is identical to stock. The only noticable difference in performance is that they get better the harder you stand on them.



Same as stock. Zero. Even with forgetting to use no-squeek lube goo when installing.
Nice!
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2009, 03:07 PM   #9
MuchMoore
Colonel
MuchMoore's Avatar
United_States
73
Rep
2,320
Posts

Drives: 08 E90 335i
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CenFla

iTrader: (28)

Send a message via AIM to MuchMoore
Quote:
Originally Posted by satakal View Post
Same as stock. Zero. Even with forgetting to use no-squeek lube goo when installing.
Thats really great to hear, how many miles have you put on them?
__________________
| Andrew | M Technik | BMW Performance | BBS | Forge | V1 | LUX | Bilstein | Precision-Sport |
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2009, 03:22 PM   #10
satakal
Major
satakal's Avatar
66
Rep
1,476
Posts

Drives: e46
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: socal

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuchMoore View Post
Thats really great to hear, how many miles have you put on them?
I bedded them in on a sunday morning. Then, 100 angry miles at the Roval. Since then, I don't know, less than 1k.
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2009, 04:47 PM   #11
MuchMoore
Colonel
MuchMoore's Avatar
United_States
73
Rep
2,320
Posts

Drives: 08 E90 335i
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CenFla

iTrader: (28)

Send a message via AIM to MuchMoore
Quote:
Originally Posted by satakal View Post
I bedded them in on a sunday morning. Then, 100 angry miles at the Roval. Since then, I don't know, less than 1k.
Oh ok, please keep this thread updated...Im really interested in these pads.

__________________
| Andrew | M Technik | BMW Performance | BBS | Forge | V1 | LUX | Bilstein | Precision-Sport |
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2011, 04:04 PM   #12
satakal
Major
satakal's Avatar
66
Rep
1,476
Posts

Drives: e46
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: socal

iTrader: (2)

Holy crap I write terrible.

I liked them so much, I just ordered another set. The more I know, the more I appreciate the performance of these pads.
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 11:36 AM   #13
tofu-
Banned
71
Rep
2,854
Posts

Drives: 335i Jet Black/Coral Red
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: nyc

iTrader: (4)

i wonder if this would be a better alternative to those cool carbon pads that seem pretty popular here
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 02:40 PM   #14
topcat87
Banned
No_Country
26
Rep
356
Posts

Drives: F30
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Here

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by satakal View Post
For street use, the brake dust is the same or less than factory pads. Its been three weeks since I've washed my daily driver wheels and nothing looks out of the ordinary.

I think its really cool that the "cold feel" of the brakes is identical to stock. The only noticable difference in performance is that they get better the harder you stand on them.



Same as stock. Zero. Even with forgetting to use no-squeek lube goo when installing.
i beg to differ. these pads are 10x less dusty than stock.

also they bite HARD when cold as well! no heart stopping moments in the morning
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2011, 07:58 PM   #15
BRO
Oldie Newbie
United_States
3
Rep
134
Posts

Drives: E92 2007 Auto Sport Red
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Irvine CA USA

iTrader: (0)

Did you notice a lot more noise when hot and "reaching for that second level of grab".
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2011, 03:24 PM   #16
satakal
Major
satakal's Avatar
66
Rep
1,476
Posts

Drives: e46
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: socal

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tofu- View Post
i wonder if this would be a better alternative to those cool carbon pads that seem pretty popular here
I don't know much about those pads. If those are "low noise, low dust" pads, they're not in the same category of product. As far as I can tell, the R4S pads are for performance. And the "low dust" pads are for guys that don't track their cars. (I had a set of "low dust" pads last me 100 track miles.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRO View Post
Did you notice a lot more noise when hot and "reaching for that second level of grab".
Its been a while. I'll report back in a few weeks. But, not that I recall. There is so much wind noise at track speeds. I never noticed any more noise or any more dust than stock. For me, they are a performance upgrade with zero trade-offs over stock. Well, I did have to pay for them instead of get them free with BMW Maintenance.
Are you referring to noise when commuting or when driving hot laps?
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2011, 03:36 PM   #17
chumley
Captain
chumley's Avatar
47
Rep
782
Posts

Drives: 2009 335
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Naples, FL

iTrader: (1)

Nice review - good information to tuck away when I need pads.

I have to admit that I had to read "On the last day of a 3 day driving bonanza, I had my gf install Porter field R4S on all four corners of my car." a couple times as I tried to visualize how that works exactly!

Bravo sir!
__________________


MHD flash, DCI, BMW PE, ETS FMIC, Powerflex, SWS8xi's, VMR 803's in Solar Rain, LUX V4
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2011, 07:08 PM   #18
BRO
Oldie Newbie
United_States
3
Rep
134
Posts

Drives: E92 2007 Auto Sport Red
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Irvine CA USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by satakal View Post

Its been a while. I'll report back in a few weeks. But, not that I recall. There is so much wind noise at track speeds. I never noticed any more noise or any more dust than stock. For me, they are a performance upgrade with zero trade-offs over stock. Well, I did have to pay for them instead of get them free with BMW Maintenance.
Are you referring to noise when commuting or when driving hot laps?
Hot laps at the Roval a couple of weekends ago. This was my first track day with them. I noticed some fade after 3-4 laps but the stop was there if you pushed harder. Hauling down into turn 3 they would sort of howl. Also had the RB rotors in front. Maybe that was it?

For commute they are great. Little dust, no noise. Similar to the Cool carbons I had before. But CC did not last very long.

Hey Chuckwalla is NEXT WEEKEND. We can compare notes then.
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2011, 12:02 PM   #19
HP Autosport
General
United_States
2648
Rep
41,060
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com

iTrader: (35)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRO View Post
Hot laps at the Roval a couple of weekends ago. This was my first track day with them. I noticed some fade after 3-4 laps but the stop was there if you pushed harder. Hauling down into turn 3 they would sort of howl. Also had the RB rotors in front. Maybe that was it?

For commute they are great. Little dust, no noise. Similar to the Cool carbons I had before. But CC did not last very long.

Hey Chuckwalla is NEXT WEEKEND. We can compare notes then.
The R4S pads should be as quiet as stock and dust less than OEM BMW pads with much better performance on and off the track.

The howl may be from the slotted/drilled rotors.

How well did the RB 2-piece rotor and R4S pads combo work out for you at the Roval? That track would typically destroy a set of so called dustless performance pads in just a couple of days, in your case the Cool Carbons.
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2011, 03:55 PM   #20
yakev724
Brigadier General
yakev724's Avatar
Russian Federation
173
Rep
3,557
Posts

Drives: 11 Q5
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NYC

iTrader: (49)

...wish I had a gf who changed my brake pads
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2011, 05:21 PM   #21
BcuzAWD
Colonel
BcuzAWD's Avatar
United_States
107
Rep
2,584
Posts

Drives: with E85 on 22psi at 475tq
Join Date: May 2008
Location: norcal

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by david @ eas View Post
It is always unfortunate when a vendor tries to sell their own product at the expense of another well received product. It not only discredits the vendor but also the product that the vendor is trying to sell which can also be a quite decent product and one to consider. We continue to provide our strongest recommendation for the Cool Carbon product line and believe that it stands on it's own merit. We do not believe in offering negative comments of any competitors product line just to make a sale.

Here is a related thread that you can read excerpts from:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...39#post9067139

I fail to see where anyone put down CC pads in this thread all everyone was doing was stating the observations they had by running different pads. I have CC's now and will be looking for an alternative pad when it needs replacing because i was not happy with the pads. Not everyone will love CC's like you seem to do. Why is it with any brake pad thread you always jump in and pretty much try to sell CC pads to everyone. I for one am glad HP Autowerk posted because they are suspension guru's that actually track their cars and race them professionally unlike some vendors who claim to be suspension experts.
Appreciate 0
      03-11-2011, 12:51 AM   #22
satakal
Major
satakal's Avatar
66
Rep
1,476
Posts

Drives: e46
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: socal

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by david @ eas View Post
It is always unfortunate when a vendor tries to sell their own product at the expense of another well received product. It not only discredits the vendor but also the product that the vendor is trying to sell which can also be a quite decent product and one to consider. We continue to provide our strongest recommendation for the Cool Carbon product line and believe that it stands on it's own merit. We do not believe in offering negative comments of any competitors product line just to make a sale.

Here is a related thread that you can read excerpts from:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...39#post9067139
As you know, I have many options on what to buy and where to buy from. I'm inclined to spend my money with those that spend their money on things that interest me. For whatever reason, I'm not aware of your product. I also don't know if you are a CCA member, I don't know if you sponsor a Club Racer, I don't know if you track an e90, and I don't know if you've ever said hi to me at a track day.
As of today, I'm sure I've made the right choice. Unless I've gotten faster. In which case, I maybe should have selected a pad more towards the "race" end of the spectrum.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:51 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST