[cn555ic]

I did some testing on my car with the Procede Reader and I am kind of puzzled to why there was a CAN knock code of 1 present during the logging of the data at 4.9 seconds which lasted only .040~ of a second, I am surprised because I am running 93 octane with methanol spray of 55/45 and the knock point recorded is at that point where the meth injection begins spraying..I am using a 315ml/min nozzle....I am using stage 2 with meth map set to 90%UT and 0% ign cor......I will be going to stage 3 once I install my DPs....Can anyone help explain this knock code thats present...I am not even at high rpms when this happened...Can it be a false knock?? The first pic shows the actual log and the second pic actually breaks it down to the numbers...Please let me know what you guys think....I have meth set to start spray at 6-7 psi and progressively maxing the flow at 11 psi....Do you guys think I need to start flow a little earlier like 5 psi to eliminate what appears to be knock especially when running such an aggressive map...What I am thinking is that there needs to be meth injected much earlier which will raise the octane faster, which would eliminate this problem...After that initial knock value, there was no other knock codes seen after the run....In fact the car was running strong up until redline before I let off on it.
Whats the take on this?? Shiv, anyone....

[enrita]

interested to know as well why. Shouldnt you like set ignition correction to something?

[shifterboy45]

Looking at the a/f numbers between 3275 and 3636 doesnt it seem to go real lean?

possible fuel delivery problem under boost ?

lean misfire -- ?

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

Looking at the a/f numbers between 3275 and 3636 doesnt it seem to go real lean?

possible fuel delivery problem under boost ?

Thats what I am thinking that the meth needs to be kicked on earlier...what do you think?

[shifterboy45]

looks like it gets corrected (somewhat) at 5098 = 3756rpm
so, that may be your issue..

[cn555ic]

What values should I see at idle as for air/fuel? I am not showing any sign of the fuel pump failing or any codes...

[shifterboy45]

i believe that value is hard coded in the DME for emission purposes
the 15.4:1 is good -- not too fat or too lean ..

too high(lean) a number could give you a misfire @ idle
or too low (rich) could give you a rough idle and stumbling -- possible black smoke condition ..

but your numbers look good from here

[cn555ic]

Still puzzled to why there is Canbus knock...I hope Shiv can chime in on this...

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Perhaps the boost is spooling before the methanol is flowing? The rest of the run looks a little shaky also on timing for methanol. Just lower the boost levels IMHO or increase the methanol flow.

Mike

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Perhaps the boost is spooling before the methanol is flowing? The rest of the run looks a little shaky also on timing for methanol. Just lower the boost levels IMHO or increase the methanol flow.

Mike

I think I am going to increase the starting point of flow beginning at 5 psi...This log only shows a run from second to third!
Lower the boost levels? With Meth injection boost levels of 15-17 is ideal and norm from what I have been seeing...In fact I see boost levels from your testing of JB3 and meth as high as 18-20....

[Clap135]

you are running really lean and your timing is really low even though it is zeroed out, meaning you are pretty much relying on the computer to save you, jb3 style.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Clap135

you are running really lean and your timing is really low even though it is zeroed out, meaning you are pretty much relying on the computer to save you, jb3 style.

He may be lean but you can't tell from the log. That data is from a narrow band o2 sensor and not at all useful for analysis IMHO.

Mike

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by Clap135

you are running really lean and your timing is really low even though it is zeroed out, meaning you are pretty much relying on the computer to save you, jb3 style.

Well your kind of right in a way as far as riding the knock because at this point with meth map your setting the Procede ign correction to 0% which is JB3 style...It does run lean in the beginning during where it indicates Canbus knock, but as soon as the meth kick in, it becomes rich...

[JackFlash]

Look at your air intake temperature, methanol is not flowing until 5000-6000rpm, creating transitional knock before that point.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by JackFlash

Look at your air intake temperature, methanol is not flowing until 5000-6000rpm, creating transitional knock before that point.

I am not convinced that is the case. The IAT data is flat, where non methanol cars climb the entire rpms normally. The entire timing curve is much more retarded then I would expect.

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Perhaps the boost is spooling before the methanol is flowing? The rest of the run looks a little shaky also on timing for methanol. Just lower the boost levels IMHO or increase the methanol flow.

Mike

+1

if you adding a component or system .. the best thing to do is NOT to work from other ppls numbers (just a suggestion) ... use a low-end starting point where the car runs good ... then progressively increase your settings for boost and do several logged runs -- if they are clean -- step it up an notch..

the worst thing you can run into is, running a higher (not saying that your are) and working backward --- just a suggestion .. get your car into its sweet spot first and then crank it up ..

btw: those 20:1 readings arent making your engine very happy..

still awaiting "expert" input

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

+1

if you adding a component or system .. the best thing to do is NOT to work from other ppls numbers (just a suggestion) ... use a low-end starting point where the car runs good ... then progressively increase your settings for boost and do several logged runs -- if they are clean -- step it up an notch..

the worst thing you can run into is, running a higher (not saying that your are) and working backward --- just a suggestion .. get your car into its sweet spot first and then crank it up ..

btw: those 20:1 readings arent making your engine very happy..

still awaiting "expert" input

That logic is not sound though. The map change is triggered by the methanol flow, so that means the start point is not relevant.

CN555ic, I think I may know the problem. I sent you a pm.

Regardless, I agree those AF's are dangerous.

[cn555ic]

I am going to tune it down a little and see if it addresses the issue....the rest of the log the air/fuel looks great except for that duration of 4.697 to 5.098.....

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

That logic is not sound though. The map change is triggered by the methanol flow, so that means the start point is not relevant.

CN555ic, I think I may know the problem. I sent you a pm.

Regardless, I agree those AF's are dangerous.

let me get this straight -- cuz im not getting this; no matter how agressive the tune is (on meth or not) it has no relevance to the state of tune since the map is switched once the meth is "on"

e.g. running a "race" map vs. non "race" map ..
or does Procede have a pre-set map meth map that is designed front to back with all the user varibles tailored ??

[cn555ic]

I wish Shiv can chime in on this..

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

let me get this straight -- cuz im not getting this; no matter how agressive the tune is (on meth or not) it has no relevance to the state of tune since the map is switched once the meth is "on"

e.g. running a "race" map vs. non "race" map ..
or does Procede have a pre-set map meth map that is designed front to back with all the user varibles tailored ??

I am not completely familiar with how the Procede deals with a lot of this. Shiv will have to offer that insight.

There are different ways to attack this entire equation. Without a lot of user defined variables, I don't know what exactly is being done. I do know a "methanol map delay offset" might help the user with things like this. For example, you run a 0.5 second delay to allow the fluid to get into the cylinders before the aggressive A/Fs are triggered in the Methanol map. Maybe this type of user defined offset is possible?

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

let me get this straight -- cuz im not getting this; no matter how agressive the tune is (on meth or not) it has no relevance to the state of tune since the map is switched once the meth is "on"

e.g. running a "race" map vs. non "race" map ..
or does Procede have a pre-set map meth map that is designed front to back with all the user varibles tailored ??

Yes the maps are tailored from front to back....once meth map is in place the map basically dictates all the variables set by the tuner.