E90Post
 


Extreme Powerhouse
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Self Fix for Long Cranks/Impending HPFP Failure?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-07-2010, 11:19 PM   #1
thebmw
Post Advisor
68
Rep
509
Posts

Drives: Many BMWs and SRTs
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (0)

Lightbulb Self Fix for Long Cranks/Impending HPFP Failure?

My 2007 335i coupe didn't have any long cranks in the 3 years I owned it. My 2010 335i coupe has had long cranks multiple times a day starting only 1 month after getting the car. After reading that one of the possible problems could be a priming issue once the car was turned off (hence the annoying gyrating noises the car makes when it turns off), I thought of a possible solution.

For the last few days, I have been revving the engine to about 1500-2000RPM for about 1-2 seconds while turning the car off (I have a manual). The idea is that extra fuel is given to the pump and through the lines to the engine, thus "priming" it. Guess what...not a single long crank since starting this protocol.

To put this in perspective, I have had long cranks every time I start the car (2-4 times a day) for 4 months straight. Now, not a single one (when using this protocol). I did forget to use this protocol once and I got a long crank!

I'd like to see what happens if other try this protocol. Please report your results. I'll keep all of you updated as well.
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2010, 11:50 PM   #2
JoeyBananaz18
Brigadier General
JoeyBananaz18's Avatar
146
Rep
3,873
Posts

Drives: metrocard
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Whitestone, NY

iTrader: (3)

i'll give it a shot.
__________________
7/18/09- I pick up my baby- 2009 E92 335i Xdrive, Space Gray over Coral Red. Premium Pkg, Cold Weather Pkg, M-Sport Pkg, 193Ms, Gloss Black grills, Custom Gloss Black Mirrors, Performance shift and E-brake boot, M3 spoiler, Euro fog switch, gloss black interior tim, Coco-Mats (red/black), H&R coilovers, 19'' Alufelgen SF-71s......
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 09:23 AM   #3
vasillalov
Mad Linux Guru On The Loose
vasillalov's Avatar
Bulgaria
245
Rep
4,818
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i Sedan
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2008 335i E90  [4.00]
Reminds me of the old days of carburetors. When it was cold outside, you'd prime the carburetor by revving the engine and instantly shutting of the ignition. It leaves a small amount of fuel in the carburetor ready to go right into the ignition chamber and start the engine the next time you wanted to drive.
__________________
Equal Opportunity Harasser!
6MT | COBB | AR | AE | Forge DV | HPF | P3 Gauge | Hybrid Intake | O.S.Giken TCD | All M3 bits | TCKLine | StopTech | UUC | ER | SPEC
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 09:43 AM   #4
335iseb
Lieutenant
335iseb's Avatar
7
Rep
427
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Long Island

iTrader: (0)

I've been getting long cranks myself on my car for the last month.
I'll give this fix a shot and see what it does.
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 09:47 AM   #5
thebmw
Post Advisor
68
Rep
509
Posts

Drives: Many BMWs and SRTs
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Reminds me of the old days of carburetors. When it was cold outside, you'd prime the carburetor by revving the engine and instantly shutting of the ignition. It leaves a small amount of fuel in the carburetor ready to go right into the ignition chamber and start the engine the next time you wanted to drive.
Right...that was kind of my thought as well. However, with everything controlled electronically now (even the start/stop button), the variation to the fuel in the carburetor could be fuel in the HPFP or somewhere along the fuel line, etc.
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 10:05 AM   #6
335iseb
Lieutenant
335iseb's Avatar
7
Rep
427
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Long Island

iTrader: (0)

But let me ask this question. When you put the FOB into the dash and start the electrical system in the car. Shouldn't that action activate the fuel pump and have it prime itself?
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 10:08 AM   #7
gary88
Ikea enthusiast
gary88's Avatar
United_States
251
Rep
8,135
Posts

Drives: '07 E92 335i
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2007 E92 335i  [3.98]
The fuel pump primes itself when you open the door, you can hear it and even see the needle on the fuel gauge move around.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 10:08 AM   #8
dreamingat30fps
Major
United_States
480
Rep
1,123
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i, 2016 F150 Platinum
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iseb View Post
But let me ask this question. When you put the FOB into the dash and start the electrical system in the car. Shouldn't that action activate the fuel pump and have it prime itself?
I believe it actually starts as soon as you unlock the car... you can hear the pump. Most modern cars do this.
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 10:44 AM   #9
thebmw
Post Advisor
68
Rep
509
Posts

Drives: Many BMWs and SRTs
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gary88 View Post
The fuel pump primes itself when you open the door, you can hear it and even see the needle on the fuel gauge move around.
It should do this...but it seems that it is not happening properly, hence one of the proposed reasons for the HPFP failures. At least that is what others on the forums have proposed. With my 1 week worth of data, it seems that I'm on to something...don't know what, but something!
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 11:27 AM   #10
dreamingat30fps
Major
United_States
480
Rep
1,123
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i, 2016 F150 Platinum
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
It should do this...but it seems that it is not happening properly, hence one of the proposed reasons for the HPFP failures. At least that is what others on the forums have proposed. With my 1 week worth of data, it seems that I'm on to something...don't know what, but something!
That method may work if your pump is already on the way out. However unless you are out of warranty I would want to speed up its death, not prolong it, so I can just get the new (hopefully better) pump.
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 11:51 AM   #11
thebmw
Post Advisor
68
Rep
509
Posts

Drives: Many BMWs and SRTs
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
That method may work if your pump is already on the way out. However unless you are out of warranty I would want to speed up its death, not prolong it, so I can just get the new (hopefully better) pump.
All pumps are on their way out...or so it seems by the posts here and BMW extending the warranties to 10 years, thus acknowledging that there is a problem. They have had multiple hardware and software revisions.

In addition, some people have posted that their performance and MPG is lower with the new software and pumps...I don't want either. One guy posted that he lost 30hp on the dyno with the new pump/software! Plus, I supposedly have the "New" pump! My car was picked up in Feb of this year! So if this "fixes" the underlying reason why the pumps fail, why would you want to kill the pump. Cause we all know it will die at the least opportune time.
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 12:20 PM   #12
335iseb
Lieutenant
335iseb's Avatar
7
Rep
427
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Long Island

iTrader: (0)

So as the needle is revving up to 2k rpm with your foot on the gas you stop the engine then? Or when you let the foot off the gas and the needle is in the desired range you kill the engine?

Last edited by 335iseb; 07-08-2010 at 12:27 PM.
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 01:20 PM   #13
vasillalov
Mad Linux Guru On The Loose
vasillalov's Avatar
Bulgaria
245
Rep
4,818
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i Sedan
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2008 335i E90  [4.00]
^^^
I'd say foot on gas pedal then you kill the engine.
__________________
Equal Opportunity Harasser!
6MT | COBB | AR | AE | Forge DV | HPF | P3 Gauge | Hybrid Intake | O.S.Giken TCD | All M3 bits | TCKLine | StopTech | UUC | ER | SPEC
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 01:34 PM   #14
thebmw
Post Advisor
68
Rep
509
Posts

Drives: Many BMWs and SRTs
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iseb View Post
So as the needle is revving up to 2k rpm with your foot on the gas you stop the engine then? Or when you let the foot off the gas and the needle is in the desired range you kill the engine?
Foot is on the gas to rev to around 1500-2000 RPM for about a second or two. The start/stop button is pushed while your foot is still on the gas.
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 06:45 PM   #15
Kolyan2k
Major General
420
Rep
5,399
Posts

Drives: 2006 S2000
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston

iTrader: (1)

so can anyone else confirm that this works ?

maybe the HPFP issue is the fact that the car does not get primed enough ?
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 07:22 PM   #16
persian54
Lieutenant General
persian54's Avatar
United_States
586
Rep
15,840
Posts

Drives: P-TurboS. E93M3/335i/Z435i/M5
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Valley, SoCal

iTrader: (298)

but why not go in for a new pump? long cranks aren't everything... having the pump shut off on you under WOT is what you need to really worry about
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 08:13 PM   #17
WilliamE92
First Lieutenant
WilliamE92's Avatar
13
Rep
318
Posts

Drives: 2013 EB F30 335 MT
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (1)

It was when my long cranks went away that the trouble began.

Just sayin'
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2010, 10:16 PM   #18
thebmw
Post Advisor
68
Rep
509
Posts

Drives: Many BMWs and SRTs
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
but why not go in for a new pump?
Because 2 different dealerships and 3 different SAs refused to fix anything until the HPFP fails or until the CEL comes on. In 4 months, for better or worse, neither has happened. But it's been almost a week since starting my new protocol and no long cranks (except for the one time I turned on the car and forgot to prime it before turning it off). Gosh, it's like I have a $50K f'ing lawn mower engine or something!!
Appreciate 0
      07-09-2010, 02:20 AM   #19
persian54
Lieutenant General
persian54's Avatar
United_States
586
Rep
15,840
Posts

Drives: P-TurboS. E93M3/335i/Z435i/M5
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Valley, SoCal

iTrader: (298)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
Gosh, it's like I have a $50K f'ing lawn mower engine or something!!
Seriously

when they didn't change my out and only did a software update, i started driving it hard

flooring from 0 to red line every time
keeping it in 2nd gear at red line for a while

took it about a day to completely shut off and die on me and i finally got the 933 pump

GL with yours
Appreciate 0
      07-09-2010, 02:54 AM   #20
cstavaru
Brigadier General
cstavaru's Avatar
173
Rep
3,236
Posts

Drives: 2009 335i M Sport Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bucharest, Romania

iTrader: (0)

I would NOT prolong the HPFP time using any method. A failing HPFP causes loss of power while driving (mine did) and (my opinion) it can cause misfires, lean condititions due to not enough fuel, etc. It is better to put pressure on BMW by replacing it as soon as possible
Appreciate 0
      07-09-2010, 11:15 AM   #21
thebmw
Post Advisor
68
Rep
509
Posts

Drives: Many BMWs and SRTs
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
I would NOT prolong the HPFP time using any method. A failing HPFP causes loss of power while driving (mine did) and (my opinion) it can cause misfires, lean condititions due to not enough fuel, etc. It is better to put pressure on BMW by replacing it as soon as possible
I've been waiting for 4 months for it to fail and it hasn't. So I thought I'd try this protocol. Believe it or not, the car actually feels peppier now that I've been "priming" it before turning it off. I truly don't think it's my imagination. And it feels peppier in 90+ degree weather with 90% humidity.
Appreciate 0
      07-09-2010, 12:41 PM   #22
E90 87ss
Captain
E90 87ss's Avatar
34
Rep
606
Posts

Drives: !
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ/Philly

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Reminds me of the old days of carburetors. When it was cold outside, you'd prime the carburetor by revving the engine and instantly shutting of the ignition. It leaves a small amount of fuel in the carburetor ready to go right into the ignition chamber and start the engine the next time you wanted to drive.
Actually that would more than likely cause dieseling and the extra gas would evaporate. You prime the car before you start it. Just like a lawn mower. Can't do that with drive by wire...
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:38 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST