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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > Rears at all four corners?



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      06-06-2007, 11:55 AM   #1
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Rears at all four corners?

Does anyone have experience with running 18 x 9 wheels with 255 or 265 rubber at all four corners for the track? Iím concerned about rubbing inside the fender or at the lip. This would be for an E90 335i.
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      06-06-2007, 01:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reb03 View Post
Does anyone have experience with running 18 x 9 wheels with 255 or 265 rubber at all four corners for the track? Iím concerned about rubbing inside the fender or at the lip. This would be for an E90 335i.
SG335 is test fitting a bunch of wheels..look for posts from him on this..looks like the best option is a 18X8.5 at all four corners..maybe with spacers in back so it doesnt look funny.
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      06-06-2007, 07:08 PM   #3
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I have 9" wide wheels on all four corners.... no problems at all. TONS of room up front with 255's
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      06-06-2007, 10:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lni View Post
I have 9" wide wheels on all four corners.... no problems at all. TONS of room up front with 255's
What are your offsets? I was thinking a 9" wheel would hit the stock strut
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      06-07-2007, 08:22 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Park2670 View Post
What are your offsets? I was thinking a 9" wheel would hit the stock strut
ET41. I put them right no, no rubbing at all. Matter of fact, I wanted the tire to be closer to the fender, for a wider stance, so I bought 10mm spacers too, and it brought the tires right out to the fender.

In theory, that means if you had ET35 on a 9" wide wheel, you'd be able to fit 265-275s up front easily.
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      06-07-2007, 09:15 AM   #6
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I cant remember...but arent the 335i brakes larger that the 330?
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      06-07-2007, 10:32 AM   #7
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335i has the exact same size rear brakes as the 330i E9x series (13.2"), but the fronts differ. On the 330i, they are 12.9". On the 335i, they are 13.7".

If you go with your 18x9's, then you'll be golden, but 17x9's may or may not fit. If you lived near me, I'd let you try them out for size (I run 17x9). Of course, if you left now, you could left now, you could be here in time for a lahbstah roll on Sunday, and try the wheels for size. Hmmm. lahbstah roll sounds good, actually.

I have no idea why BMW used smaller platters up front on my car. I can't think of BMW ever doing that in in the past, since 80% of your braking is done up front.
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      06-07-2007, 10:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lni View Post
ET41. I put them right no, no rubbing at all. Matter of fact, I wanted the tire to be closer to the fender, for a wider stance, so I bought 10mm spacers too, and it brought the tires right out to the fender.

In theory, that means if you had ET35 on a 9" wide wheel, you'd be able to fit 265-275s up front easily.
Sorry but what does "ET41 and ET35" mean? I suppose I could go with 18x8.5s too but the wheels I'm looking at for the track (OZ Ultraleggera - light & relatively inexpensive) only come in the 18x9 size - at least on the Tirerack website. Also, I spoke to someone in sales at Tirerack and he recommended against anything larger than a 5mm spacer in back.
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      06-07-2007, 11:45 AM   #9
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ET= offset. Look on the back of your wheels, and the offset is marked as ET37 for a wheel with 37 offset.
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      06-07-2007, 12:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lni View Post
335i has the exact same size rear brakes as the 330i E9x series (13.2"), but the fronts differ. On the 330i, they are 12.9". On the 335i, they are 13.7".

If you go with your 18x9's, then you'll be golden, but 17x9's may or may not fit. If you lived near me, I'd let you try them out for size (I run 17x9). Of course, if you left now, you could left now, you could be here in time for a lahbstah roll on Sunday, and try the wheels for size. Hmmm. lahbstah roll sounds good, actually.

I have no idea why BMW used smaller platters up front on my car. I can't think of BMW ever doing that in in the past, since 80% of your braking is done up front.
Dude..I would love a lahbstah roll...my folks went to UConn..and told me stories of those babies. Sign me up.
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      06-07-2007, 01:48 PM   #11
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it's LObstahh.

If you're gonna try to sound Wicked Pissah, get it right, ReTahhd.

Lahbstah isn't Bean Town.... we say O's just not Ahh's.

God, when I went back home last month, I couldn't wait for some Fried Haddock at our favorite dive 'The Lobstah Claw'...... Wicked Awesome kid.

;-)
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      06-07-2007, 02:30 PM   #12
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I am such a ReTahhd sometimes.
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      06-07-2007, 03:23 PM   #13
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Grew up in Quincy, hung with Dooahchestah muthahs, went out with a ho from Reveeah, but I eat Lahbstah rolls. They ahh wikked pissah though.

In high school, I had 6 trawls of 5 lobster pots in back river. Was okay money, but damn, I got so sick of eating lobster. I'm back to where I love it again, but it took more than a decade. For some reason, we (the fishermen)would call them 'lahbstahs'. :dunno:
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      06-07-2007, 08:32 PM   #14
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I think ya'll are gettin off topic, but I don't know what ya'll are sayin.
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      06-08-2007, 12:55 AM   #15
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Lahbstahs ?

Guess us jamokes up in Anndovah ahhh retahded.
What do ya want from a dumb Masshole, huh ?

I tink I dated that same HO from Reveeah.
The one with the huge Hayah (hair).

Got some wicked pissah subs over at Kelly's Roast Beef.

We were just home and went ovah to Quincy Mahket for some lunch and some Beeahs.

You like apples ? I got her numbah, how bout dem Apples !!

;-)

OK, enough being a TAHD...... ;- )

So SOX !!!!!! We're gonna win another Series boys !!!!
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      06-08-2007, 10:45 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lni View Post
ET41. I put them right no, no rubbing at all. Matter of fact, I wanted the tire to be closer to the fender, for a wider stance, so I bought 10mm spacers too, and it brought the tires right out to the fender.

In theory, that means if you had ET35 on a 9" wide wheel, you'd be able to fit 265-275s up front easily.
Could you post a picture of the fitment without the spacer mounted on the car showing the relationship to the strut tube please? An ET41 wheel (I have never seen this offset before) should hit the strut tube on a 9.0" wheel, especially on an 18". You are running a 17" correct? I have test fit several wheels recently. And I can say that the offset is not the determining factor in clearance, but the backspace measurement. I have mounted two 18x9.0 ET 40 wheels with different results. The OZ wheel fit with 1mm clearance and the Volk wheel cound not seat on the hub do to interference from the strut tube. The OZ wheel has a 6.50" backspace and the Volk has a 6.375" backspace. This makes sense because .125" or 1/8" = about 3mm. The Volk with a 3mm spacer just fits. What is the backspace number for your wheel? To properly measure backspace, tape a string to the outer lip of the wheel with the tire mounted on (better if the tire is not mounted and you can then just lay a straight edge across the wheel) and stretch tight to the other side and tape there. Measure from the mounting pad of the wheel up to the string and note the measurement. This will be very helpful information for all of us trying to properly size our track wheels. In my opinion, it is necessary for proper clearance to have at least a 6.25" backspace on a 9.0" wheel. This would put the offset at approximately 33-35mm. A 6.5"/ET40 wheels needs at least a 5mm spacer and a 10mm is better. However, I am concerned with fender lip clearance issues without rolling the front fender lips. What is your clearance from the sidewall of the outside tire to the fender lip as you hold a straight edge to the tire and fender?

Now to complicate matters further, it all depends on what suspension you are running. Stock set up only needs strut tube clearance. Coilovers need to clear spring perch. And the different coilovers have different points of contact with the tire as you adjust the perch downward for a lower ride height. The Bilstein and KW use a progressive wind and tapered shaped spring which allow them to ride higher on the perch. The Tein and TCK use a linear spring with a constant 60mm diameter. These springs typically sit lower on the strut shaft. I just changed out my springs on the coilovers to a higher track set up spring rate and I lowered my spring perch .75". Now the adjustable spring perch collar resides at about the center line of the tire's sidewall. With the OZ ET40/6.5" backspace wheel, the perch makes contact with the tire. A 3mm spacer provides just enough clearance to eliminate contact. A 5mm spacer should be used in a track environment.

Who is the manufacturer of you wheel? You're in SoCal? I would like to test fit your wheel on my car. This is very helpful discussion on this topic. There is a lot of talk on the forums regarding wheel fitment but not alot of accurate information that has been field tested.
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      06-08-2007, 10:55 AM   #17
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Looks like lni is in MA. I would love to get this figured out before CA Speedway in Oct.
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      06-08-2007, 11:14 AM   #18
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Just found more info that he posted in the Pic thread. I will call Bimmerworld and discuss this LTW5 wheel with them. Turner only listed the 17" so I passed. But Bimmerworld has 18x9 as well as 17x9 and it is a 41mm offset. Funny number but oh well. I personally don't think there is an advantage anymore running a 17" wheel with many good tires including R compounds being made today. 245 40 18 is a very popular size now. It looks like the new R888 will come in a 255 35 18. The 18x9's are 18.2 lbs and cost $299.00. I my case, they will need at least 5mm spacers. Anyone care to comment about the pro's and con's of 17"vs18" for track use? Anyone try the Hankook(sp?) 214 tires yet?
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      06-08-2007, 01:33 PM   #19
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I have the LTW5's mounted on my 332ti right now. I'll mount one on the e90 and take a pic tomorrow. I have to put a lsd in the 332ti tomorrow anyway. What's jacking up another car?

Btw, the LTW5's are a few dollars cheaper from Dan at diffsonline. I think mine were $249/ea for 17x9. Also, I went with the 17x9's because of 4 reasons:

1.) they only offered 17x9 at the time, though I would've waited (they offer the 18" version now)
2.) they are cheaper than 18" tire/wheel combo
3.) they are lighter than 18" tire/wheel combo by 3-4lbs per corner, depending on the tire you choose
4.) they fit the car

As for track use, lighter, cheaper, just as strong, and fits the car. If the 17's fit, really the only advantage is potentially more air over the brakes and bling factor of 18's vs. 17's. At speed on the track, I don't think the 'air on brakes' is that big of a deal, since the wheels are fairly wide open.

(edit): One more thing.. I would highly disparage the use of a 5mm spacer. It does not have the hubcentric ring on it, and the inside of these wheels have a camfer on them (just like 99% of the wheels out there) to fit over the ridge at the bottom of the hubcentric tube on the hub of the car. With a 5mm spacer, the wheels just barely fit over the hubcentric tube. On a street car, that might be fine, but on a track car, it's BAD. I had 5 lugbolts snap using a 5mm spacer at a driving event last year. It puts too much pressure on the lugbolts. It'sa not fun to hear a huge boom, and watch your wheel go flying past you.
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      06-08-2007, 03:21 PM   #20
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Thanks lni for your thoughts. You make some good points about weight reduction. Can you measure your backspace on these wheels please?! when they are off the car tomorrow. Are you running coilovers or the stock strut?
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      06-08-2007, 08:30 PM   #21
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Will do! I'm running H&R Sport springs on stock struts on the e90. Plenty of room. I'll also take a pic of the brake clearance to the front wheel, since your caliper will be 1/4" closer to the wheel, with the slightly larger 335 disc. Since 335's come with 17" on the non-sport, I don't think that will be an issue.
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      06-08-2007, 09:13 PM   #22
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The non-sport 335i has smaller front brakes so it will make a difference. Is there anyone near you with a sport package car than can test fit your wheel on their car? That would be extremetly helpful in determining if the LTW5 17" fits the larger brakes. Thanks. With the stock struts, you will never have an issuse with spring/perch contact. That is one advantage to stock design struts, including Koni, Bilstein and the upcoming Dinan struts. How is your tire wear with stock camber at about -1 degree?
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