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      07-19-2007, 01:01 PM   #1
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335i @ Track review

http://landshark1.spaces.live.com/bl...3A7!1311.entry

again, I'm impressed!!
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      07-19-2007, 03:24 PM   #2
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Any comments..rather than "I'm impressed"?
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      07-19-2007, 03:50 PM   #3
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just look at the lap time! it lap VIR faster than both the M coupe and the RS4 which both has more hp and/or better weight/hp ratio and both is good sport car too! but the 335i had both beaten!! and it's just a regular 3 series, not even a performance model!!! that's what really impressed me!! not b/c of the hp, but how balance and handling the car is!!

but I still holding my opinion, in hot summer time (90+F), the car might not be able to last a full track day (typical 4 x 25mins session) w/out a long cool down rest in the pit tho!! a bigger/aftermarket oil cooler is differently needed for this car!!

also who would not listen to what Roy Hopkin said w/in the BMW circle too!!

I have two friend who both have a 335i, one coupe, one sedan. I hope they will let me take the 335i for a spin at the track so I can really see if it's really that good!

I'm really looking forward to drive/see/run_with a 335i at the track one day!!
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      07-19-2007, 03:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandShark View Post
just look at the lap time! it lap VIR faster than both the M coupe and the RS4 which both has more hp and/or better weight/hp ratio and both is good sport car too! but the 335i had both beaten!! and it's just a regular 3 series, not even a performance model!!! that's what really impressed me!! not b/c of the hp, but how balance and handling the car is!!

but I still holding my opinion, in hot summer time (90+F), the car might not be able to last a full track day (typical 4 x 25mins session) w/out a long cool down rest in the pit tho!! a bigger/aftermarket oil cooler is differently needed for this car!!

also who would not listen to what Roy Hopkin said w/in the BMW circle too!!

I have two friend who both have a 335i, one coupe, one sedan. I hope they will let me take the 335i for a spin at the track so I can really see if it's really that good!

I'm really looking forward to drive/see/run_with a 335i at the track one day!!
My work blocks videos and photo storage websites..so I cannot look at the video until I get home...I will check it out. I drove mine for eight 25-minute sessions at a track event in Nevada a few months back...it goes well in the straights...but it has understeer issues like many cars from the factory. I will be teaching at a few other events coming up..NASA NorCal and with the Audi club..so I will report if I have been able to improve the situation.
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      07-19-2007, 07:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S4to335 View Post
My work blocks videos and photo storage websites..so I cannot look at the video until I get home...I will check it out. I drove mine for eight 25-minute sessions at a track event in Nevada a few months back...it goes well in the straights...but it has understeer issues like many cars from the factory. I will be teaching at a few other events coming up..NASA NorCal and with the Audi club..so I will report if I have been able to improve the situation.
You may want to try a more substantial rear sway bar. I had a H&R rear sway installed (20mm vs 12mm stock) and ran 235/40 R-18 at all 4 corners. I also experimented with tire pressure a bit. As a result the car is very balanced, more neutral than anything. I agree with the article, you really do not notice the lack of a LSD on track (unless you take a really tight inside line in a really tight section). However, on a tight autocross course, I absolutely set my inside tire on fire Its not the best for a competition, but its cool to see the plumes of smoke:rocks:
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      07-20-2007, 10:37 AM   #6
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I drove 335i sedan's at Autobahn Autoclub in Joliet, IL (I have a 335i coupe with Procede, but couldn't take it on the track), and the track manager says they're working with BMW to try to find a solution to the overheating problem. We got 3 of 5 cars to 300F in 30 mins of hotlapping and they do have the oil cooler installed. BTW the manager said BMW (who actually supplied cars - not sure on aggreement specifics) made Autobahn pay for oil cooler installs ($600/car). On another note he's been playing with tire pressures and uses 40psi in front and 35psi in back... kinda opposite what BMW says. They're required to use stock runflats by BMW... they get 800miles out of the left front. Ughhh...
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      07-20-2007, 11:21 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandShark View Post

I have two friend who both have a 335i, one coupe, one sedan. I hope they will let me take the 335i for a spin at the track so I can really see if it's really that good!

I'm really looking forward to drive/see/run_with a 335i at the track one day!!

And I am one of those friends, MR. Shark !! haah and sure...I will let you take my E92 for a spin and when you get your M3, I will return the same favor Anyways, are you going to the C class test drive thing in September?
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      07-20-2007, 05:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDomer View Post
I drove 335i sedan's at Autobahn Autoclub in Joliet, IL (I have a 335i coupe with Procede, but couldn't take it on the track), and the track manager says they're working with BMW to try to find a solution to the overheating problem. We got 3 of 5 cars to 300F in 30 mins of hotlapping and they do have the oil cooler installed. BTW the manager said BMW (who actually supplied cars - not sure on aggreement specifics) made Autobahn pay for oil cooler installs ($600/car). On another note he's been playing with tire pressures and uses 40psi in front and 35psi in back... kinda opposite what BMW says. They're required to use stock runflats by BMW... they get 800miles out of the left front. Ughhh...
Why couldn't you take your car on the track? Are the cars that overheated automatics? Even doing hot lapping, my car has never been in danger of overheating to that point. The hottest Ive seen my oil temp is 260. That really sucks that BMW is making the consumer pay for a retrofit that should have been included from the start, particularly if hose cars were equipped with sport package.
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      07-20-2007, 07:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDomer View Post
I drove 335i sedan's at Autobahn Autoclub in Joliet, IL (I have a 335i coupe with Procede, but couldn't take it on the track), and the track manager says they're working with BMW to try to find a solution to the overheating problem. We got 3 of 5 cars to 300F in 30 mins of hotlapping and they do have the oil cooler installed. BTW the manager said BMW (who actually supplied cars - not sure on aggreement specifics) made Autobahn pay for oil cooler installs ($600/car). On another note he's been playing with tire pressures and uses 40psi in front and 35psi in back... kinda opposite what BMW says. They're required to use stock runflats by BMW... they get 800miles out of the left front. Ughhh...
DrDomer,

Is the 40front and 35 back the COLD pressures or what he shoots for when the tires are warmed up?

Next time I'm at the track I'm going to see if I can reduce pushing via tire pressures. Was going to get a sway, but I want to spend my money tightening that loose nut - behind the wheel.

Also, I totally agree on the 800 miles out of one tire if the track is full of rights. The positive camber really kills the outside edge of the tire.
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      07-20-2007, 09:21 PM   #10
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Beating an RS4 I can see due to it's AWD and heaviness, but faster than an M Coupe around the track? I'm calling BS/poor driver/vastly different conditions.
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      07-21-2007, 12:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spacegray335i View Post
And I am one of those friends, MR. Shark !! haah and sure...I will let you take my E92 for a spin and when you get your M3, I will return the same favor Anyways, are you going to the C class test drive thing in September?
lol....sure! as long as you don't hit anything, I don't care!

hmm.... 40/35 tire pressure? interesting... I actually would try it the other way around, lowering the front tire pressure for more grip....

but well, after years of driving BMWs, I have come to a conclusion that they all need a good set of camber plate! on my old E46 w/ the GC camber plate set to -3~3.5, I've never see/feel any understeering at all!!
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      07-21-2007, 12:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandShark View Post
lol....sure! as long as you don't hit anything, I don't care!

hmm.... 40/35 tire pressure? interesting... I actually would try it the other way around, lowering the front tire pressure for more grip....

but well, after years of driving BMWs, I have come to a conclusion that they all need a good set of camber plate! on my old E46 w/ the GC camber plate set to -3~3.5, I've never see/feel any understeering at all!!
The medicine for understeer is adding MORE air to the front tires.
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      07-21-2007, 01:56 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by leftcoastman View Post
The medicine for understeer is adding MORE air to the front tires.
not true. common mistake/myth is you gotta go as stiff as possible for better handling/grip, but that's not true at all! as go you too stiff, you'll lose grip!! the key is to find the "middle" point!!

just try it next time when the car is understeering a lot and the tire pressure is up high already 40+psi, try to lower it to 38psi (hot), then go back out again and see if the car understeer less or more.

I told my friend exactly the same thing (who he drive a STi) after he's complaining lots of understeer on his car (he was running 41 hot), told him to lower it to 38, next time he pit, he said wow, don't know just 2 psi could make such a big difference!
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      07-22-2007, 12:20 PM   #14
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This should help settle this one..

http://www.rogerkrausracing.com/Tech...verunder.shtml
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      07-22-2007, 07:18 PM   #15
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The guy that suggested the reverse on the tire pressures was Tom Bagley. He's been racing for 40 yrs and ran at Indy in 78-80. He seemed pretty knowledgeable. Those are cold pressures BTW. Man... now HE can drive. All the cars were autos. From what I've read it's the automatics that run into more trouble on the track with overheating.

I couldn't take my car on the track because it was a paid session for the track's cars. To be honest, not sure I would want to. This was my first true track experience and the punishment these cars go through in 30 mins is amazing. My car is a lease, but I may purchase at lease-end. To those that take your 335i to the track, my hats off to you.
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      07-22-2007, 07:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S4to335 View Post
These cars do understeer ... Pretty sure Tom is trying to correct this problem with upping the front tire pressures.
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      07-22-2007, 07:24 PM   #17
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2015 BMW M235i  [0.00]
Don't call BS on the 335i being faster than the M Coupe on a track. Car & Driver found the same thing in their August issue. I wouldn't have believed it either...

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...35i-coupe.html
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      07-22-2007, 10:28 PM   #18
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Ah, the benefits of a good tire pyrometer! The only true way to determine if your pressures are accurate in determining your desired set up. It is true that too little or too mush pressure front or rear can change the standard theory of raising and lowering pressures to correct under/oversteer. Too much front pressure actually makes the contact patch smaller and will enduce more understeer. General tuning dictates a starting point of about 40 psi hot for R compounds and about 45 for street tires. Start there and increase/reduce until temps across the tread surface are close to even.
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      07-23-2007, 01:32 PM   #19
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I ran 42 fronts and 36.5 rears on my last track day. All cold pressures.

Sorted out a lot of the understeer issues. Got my tail out even on medium speed corners.
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      07-24-2007, 12:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg335 View Post
Ah, the benefits of a good tire pyrometer! The only true way to determine if your pressures are accurate in determining your desired set up. It is true that too little or too mush pressure front or rear can change the standard theory of raising and lowering pressures to correct under/oversteer. Too much front pressure actually makes the contact patch smaller and will enduce more understeer. General tuning dictates a starting point of about 40 psi hot for R compounds and about 45 for street tires. Start there and increase/reduce until temps across the tread surface are close to even.
Sounds about right Steve-O.
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      07-25-2007, 11:05 PM   #21
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yup, nothing beats the good old tire pyrometer!!

just remember, there's no one set of rule/law. every car is different, and it all depends on how "this car" runs.
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