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Ceramic versus OEM Brake Pads
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07-03-2013, 01:30 AM | #1 |
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Ceramic versus OEM Brake Pads
My daily driver is a 2007 328i E92 (coupe) with a manual. I run a 3 stage intake and ActivAutowerke tune, so I should have 330i like performance.
I live in the Pacific NorthWest so winter driving is done in near freezing temperatures and rain. Summers can be hot (it was 95*F yesterday). My commute involves long stretches of 70mph and some stop and go. I do not track the car. The brakes are strictly for street use, with an emphasis on daily commuting. I have just gone through a set of rear brakes (OEM) in 5000 miles (gotta remember to turn off that 'traction control' ). The fronts have gone more like 50,000. I use stock rotors. I am wondering if I should go to ceramic brakes. I MUST have; - No squealing - No need to 'warm' the brakes to bring them to operating temperature (they will often be cold on a winter day when I most need them!) - a little more mileage from a set of rear brakes Should I stay with OEM pads, or go to ceramic? If I go to ceramic, will I have issues with the brakes needing to warm up (especially in winter) or with squealing? |
07-03-2013, 04:04 AM | #2 |
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5000 on a set of rears is just wrong.
Ceramic will work, winter pedal feel is just a bit different for the very first application, gets back to normal thereafter. No squealing, no dust. |
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07-03-2013, 06:03 AM | #3 |
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If you want all those oem features like the initial bite ,just go oem.
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07-03-2013, 08:29 AM | #4 |
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Agreed, just go OEM, they are the most street-friendly pads out there.
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07-03-2013, 09:24 PM | #6 |
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Just keep in mind braking is friction. Ceramic is harder than the rotors so the rotors will wear faster. Stay with OEM.
FYI...we use ceramic (Al2O3) to grind metal in some of the industries we service. It works very well and yes, there is very little brake dust with ceramic but it also depends on the type of filler they use for the pads (composite).
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07-04-2013, 01:39 PM | #10 |
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FYI...I work w/ceramic and metals. Do some homework.
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07-04-2013, 05:13 PM | #12 | |
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BTw...I am not a tuning expert. I do love my GIAC Stage II though
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07-04-2013, 07:59 PM | #13 |
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New Ceramic Brakes at 105,000 mi.
I just did the brakes on my 105,000 mi. 07' 335i and went with Centric posiquiet ceramic (105) series. My first impressions are quite positve, good packaging they come with hardware and appear to be very well made. They are heat scorched for quick break in, when out on the first go round of brake pad bedding I like the feel and the initial bite. They seem to be very linear , easy to modulate, quite and I don't use that brake quiet stuff/goop.
I paired them with Centric premium (120) series disc rotors. Again a very positive feeling ,they look good. The castings are smooth split core design and have oem cooling vane configuration. The rotors that I replaced were BMW oem (had gone through two sets of pads and were worn to a thickness of 28.6mm right down to the minimum thickness. The old pads were Textar semi metalic and I had no complaints at all, they went 50,000mi. The car was never tracked and used mostly as a commuter (48mi round trip daily) + vacation car. Michael |
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07-04-2013, 08:41 PM | #14 | ||
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07-04-2013, 09:23 PM | #15 |
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OP, I recently changed my fronts to ceramic Akebono. Less dust, but they just don't have the feel of oem. Wouldn't do it again.
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07-04-2013, 09:27 PM | #16 |
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Geez...I give up. You started this by stating "wrong", then you stated "how does your work qualify me to make such statements". I am simply attempting to counter your statements and enlighten you.
In order to have a true scientific test comparison one has to define the constituents of the ceramic composition. However, most mfg will not disclose due to their IPs. A ceramic pad can have 0-100% Al2O3 fibers, the rest of the constituents can be: 1. Binders. 2. Abrasive materials (other than Al2O3 fibers). 3. Performance materials to enhance braking and lubricants to help with temperature. 4. Fillers. 5. Structural materials to maintain shape. So, please understand it cannot be a ceramic pad if there is 0% Al2O3 fibers. Would it be correct to call a pad "ceramic" if there is only 20% Al2O3 fibers? As mentioned previously some mfg substitute clay for ceramic fibers but still call them ceramic pads. I believe, the last report I have read, 40% of auto mfg use ceramic pads on their cars. The question is; what %wt is present regarding Al2O3 fibers ? Keep in mind some are probably not true ceramic pads, or might contain less than 20%.Thus, I maintain my position; 1) ceramic pads will wear steel rotors at a higher rate than non-ceramic pads (based on science = coefficient of friction + hardness). Dont get me wrong...I am not 100% against ceramic pads, one just has to be aware of the fact the wear rate will be faster on your rotors. I believe the OEM pads are fine if you are not tracking your car. FYI...you can copy whatever report you can find via Google b/c there are many available. BTW...I did not say "Outperform"...I said "wear faster or at a higher rate". Thanks for the entertainment.
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07-04-2013, 09:39 PM | #17 |
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I understand what you're saying, but it goes above the scope of this thread. For instance, every oil thread doesn't turn into what is/isn't considered truly synthetic because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter; the same can be said about this ceramic/non-ceramic debate because I'm sure that as long as the pad in question meets the users needs, you could say it was made out of animantium and it wouldn't make a bit of difference.
I'll put it to you like this; the op is considering a change from oem to a "ceramic" pad. Regardless of what you would take "ceramic" to mean, what "ceramic" pads would you deduce to be an appropriate option for the street car in question? |
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07-05-2013, 12:36 AM | #18 | |
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Quote:
Performance Brake Blog - Ceramic Brake Pads vs Semi-Metallic. What Are The Differences.pdf
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07-06-2013, 10:14 AM | #19 |
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For some clarity: "ceramic" is simply a class of materials- a large class. It could mean sapphire (very hard) or it could mean glass (potentially soft). In addition and as was pointed out, matrixing a hard material in a softer one is a great way to tune its properties of interest including friction and thermal conduction and capacity.
Lesson is, you can't really assume a ceramic brake pad is going to be harder or softer than a metal matrix one - it depends on how the engineers designed either. |
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07-06-2013, 10:31 AM | #20 |
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Finally this is starting to make sense...from a broader prospective you can't take the term "ceramic brake pads' so literally dude; especially when 99% of the time people will obviously associate that term with "premium" street pads, as obviously intended by the OP. I appreciate your googled article as well, but I'm already plenty familiar with it. As mentioned already, I have good experience with aggressive and what you would consider to be "true ceramic" racing brake pads from Carbotech and the like, as well as their street pads; obviously two ends of the spectrum.
Point is, I never would have thought you took the topic of the thread so literally. I wasn't disagreeing with your scientific analysis, when taken in proper context (ie steet vs race) but common sense would have obviously pointed to the fact street pads with "ceramic" in the model name were being discussed here, regardless of what's actually in their physical composition. |
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02-25-2018, 01:00 PM | #21 |
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Since they were first used on a few original equipment applications in 1985, friction materials that contain ceramic formulations have become recognized for their desirable blend of traits. These pads use ceramic compounds and copper fibers in place of the semi-metallic pad's steel fibers. This allows the ceramic pads to handle high brake temperatures with less heat fade, provide faster recovery after the stop, and generate less dust and wear on both the pads and rotors. And from a comfort standpoint, ceramic compounds provide much quieter braking because the ceramic compound helps dampen noise by generating a frequency beyond the human hearing range.
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