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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Direct port meth injection up and running!



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      02-17-2014, 03:48 PM   #1
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Direct port meth injection up and running!

I've had this planned for a while but just recently got around to doing it. This is more of an experiment than anything at this point. I plan on making it a little more elaborate with a new aftermarket intake mani, But for now this is what I have to work with.

The Set-up:
-6 .5mm nozzles
-A 7th to be installed for IAT (ran out of hose)
-80% meth
-equal length hoses
-I will be coming in on both sides of the distribution block when my hose arrives.
-Still need to mount dist. Manifold

Installed it last night and did a few test runs. I still have a lot more tuning to do to bring my car back up to 25psi+. Ill document everything in this thread.

First thing i noticed was response, second was how pretty AFR's and trim's are.

Heres a few pictures of the project:
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      02-17-2014, 03:59 PM   #2
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You missed a chance to use more AN fittings. :P

Looks nice.
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      02-17-2014, 04:14 PM   #3
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Consider my interest piqued- why didn’t you tell us you were doing this man! Lol.

Interesting that you did a direct tap of the runners. DEFIV is doing direct port via a machined plate, so spraying a small bit closer to the valves than you are. Wonder what effect (if any) that has.

Cylinder #1 certainly thanks you. This is awesome and so much better than spraying one or two nozzles via charge pipe.
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      02-17-2014, 04:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
Consider my interest piqued- why didnít you tell us you were doing this man! Lol.

Interesting that you did a direct tap of the runners. DEFIV is doing direct port via a machined plate, so spraying a small bit closer to the valves than you are. Wonder what effect (if any) that has.

Cylinder #1 certainly thanks you. This is awesome and so much better than spraying one or two nozzles via charge pipe.
Idk some people knew. This platform isn't seasoned enough not to be original.

I chose this spot for a few reasons.

1. ease of access
2. mixture (the more turbulent air should help mix better)
3. Its out of the heat more for when the car heat soaks
4. Am i really loosing a whole lot going a few inches back compared to feet with the other set up?
5. because race car.

I went from 4x 1mm to 6 (soon 7) nozzles.
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      02-17-2014, 04:49 PM   #5
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looks awesome!!! I'm a meth addict on my evo that is but haven't pulled the trigger on the 335 xi yet
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      02-18-2014, 06:52 AM   #6
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I always planned to do this, but didn't want to drill my intake manifold unless I had a spare. Those intake manifolds are exxxxpensive. This method of direct port is common on other platforms; theres some good photos on Howerton's website.

I suggest using internally checkvalved nozzles though. I was always worried about flashback with direct port injection.
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      02-18-2014, 07:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu View Post
I always planned to do this, but didn't want to drill my intake manifold unless I had a spare. Those intake manifolds are exxxxpensive. This method of direct port is common on other platforms; theres some good photos on Howerton's website.

I suggest using internally checkvalved nozzles though. I was always worried about flashback with direct port injection.
Just thought I would mention. This setup is still considered port injection. It is like the difference between a carb and multi-port fuel injection. Much better atomization and per cylinder control but is not directly injecting into the cylinder. Unless you have a backfire in the intake you would not have an ignition source.

Edit: Also this is pretty sick. I've been thinking for a while on creating a better flowing intake manifold and had intended to add multi-port meth and fuel injection to it. This will be a good test on how weill the meth works. Keep us updeted.
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Last edited by Ingeniator; 02-18-2014 at 07:48 AM.. Reason: Added Props
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      02-18-2014, 08:35 AM   #8
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Thanks guys I'll definitely be updating consistently
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      02-18-2014, 08:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingeniator View Post
Just thought I would mention. This setup is still considered port injection. It is like the difference between a carb and multi-port fuel injection. Much better atomization and per cylinder control but is not directly injecting into the cylinder. Unless you have a backfire in the intake you would not have an ignition source.

Edit: Also this is pretty sick. I've been thinking for a while on creating a better flowing intake manifold and had intended to add multi-port meth and fuel injection to it. This will be a good test on how weill the meth works. Keep us updeted.
I wish you the absolute best of luck, but prepare for a serious challenge. Several have given it real time and effort, and all came away empty handed.
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      02-18-2014, 08:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingeniator View Post
This setup is still considered port injection.
Yea I called it direct port because it was early. Didn't mean to confuse anyone.
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      02-18-2014, 08:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
I wish you the absolute best of luck, but prepare for a serious challenge. Several have given it real time and effort, and all came away empty handed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu View Post
Yea I called it direct port because it was early. Didn't mean to confuse anyone.
Tzu: Yeah I got what you meant just didn't want to let people think it was similar to our direct port fuel injection.

Pats: I realize it can't be improved a lot I was more looking for a few main improvements. 1) longer runners with ports for fuel/meth 2) larger volume manifold plenum to steady out boost surge. 3) Metal construction. and the last one is possibly converting to a larger throttle body. I'm talking about doing this on the race car as I've discussed with some of you and use it in conjunction with a staged twin setup.
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      02-18-2014, 09:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingeniator
Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
I wish you the absolute best of luck, but prepare for a serious challenge. Several have given it real time and effort, and all came away empty handed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu View Post
Yea I called it direct port because it was early. Didn't mean to confuse anyone.
Tzu: Yeah I got what you meant just didn't want to let people think it was similar to our direct port fuel injection.

Pats: I realize it can't be improved a lot I was more looking for a few main improvements. 1) longer runners with ports for fuel/meth 2) larger volume manifold plenum to steady out boost surge. 3) Metal construction. and the last one is possibly converting to a larger throttle body. I'm talking about doing this on the race car as I've discussed with some of you and use it in conjunction with a staged twin setup.
Direct injection is different from direct port. Our engines are direct where as most are multi port or direct port
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      02-18-2014, 09:08 AM   #13
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Wouldn’t direct multi-port be the most accurate description of what’s going on here? But now we’re just getting into semantics for the sake of it hah.
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      02-18-2014, 10:03 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3000GT MR View Post
Direct injection is different from direct port. Our engines are direct where as most are multi port or direct port
Not sure how the port got in there. My bad.
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      02-18-2014, 10:20 AM   #15
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ANYWAY back on topic. You are using 6 x 0.5mm nozzles which should be about 1200 mL/min (optimistically) and you were running 4 x 1.0mm nozzles previously which is about 1800 mL/min. Are you going to run a single 1.2mm nozzle upstream to account for the difference? Your trims are okay, but I'd personally want them closer to zero on a single turbo setup.
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      02-18-2014, 10:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu View Post
ANYWAY back on topic. You are using 6 x 0.5mm nozzles which should be about 1200 mL/min (optimistically) and you were running 4 x 1.0mm nozzles previously which is about 1800 mL/min. Are you going to run a single 1.2mm nozzle upstream to account for the difference? Your trims are okay, but I'd personally want them closer to zero on a single turbo setup.
4X 1mm nozzles do not spray 1800cc. When i tested it i was seeing results of 12-1300c. The FAV is only capable of flowing 1500. 6x .5mm is actually only about 166cc away from 4x 1mm. Thats through real life testing not theoritical. Procede is logging about the same also.
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Last edited by 3000GT MR; 02-18-2014 at 10:38 AM..
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      02-18-2014, 10:45 AM   #17
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All semantics aside the only thing that scares me about these set ups is the potential of a clogged nozzle and thus 1 entire port not getting any methanol at all. Have you considered a nozzle downstream too?
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      02-18-2014, 10:58 AM   #18
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SOLUTION: (Will only work on Aquamist HFS-3/4 kits)
Run Dual FAV and 2 Pumps in Series ;-)
I think thats what I'm going to end up running...

Has ANYONE thought about doing PLENUM Injection?


And I think this Jet Chart would be helpful.

Last edited by JMARS; 02-18-2014 at 11:08 AM..
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      02-18-2014, 11:07 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
All semantics aside the only thing that scares me about these set ups is the potential of a clogged nozzle and thus 1 entire port not getting any methanol at all. Have you considered a nozzle downstream too?
Yes, there will be a 7th nozzle to keep IAT down for ECU control reasons. I plan on running a Pressure filter after the FAV and before the nozzles. I dont imagine any debris forming after that point. Only thing i've see happen was a build of debris from the pump wearing out. Anything i put in the tank gets double filtered before it hits the pump also
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      02-18-2014, 11:09 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMARS View Post
SOLUTION: (Will only work on Aquamist HFS-3/4 kits)
Run Dual FAV and 2 Pumps in Series ;-)
I think thats what I'm going to end up running...

Has ANYONE thought about doing PLENUM Injection?
No sure what your using for a piggy back. But the Procede could do dual FAV's with no problem. I thought that one over too, You just need a bigger high flow high pressure pump.

EDIT: Plenum injection would be horrible on our mani. It flows like crap
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      02-18-2014, 11:19 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3000GT MR View Post
Yes, there will be a 7th nozzle to keep IAT down for ECU control reasons. I plan on running a Pressure filter after the FAV and before the nozzles. I dont imagine any debris forming after that point. Only thing i've see happen was a build of debris from the pump wearing out. Anything i put in the tank gets double filtered before it hits the pump also

Good man. I forgot about that IAT reading which is very important too. I couple pre filters should work and I think the FAV will sense the pressure difference and trigger fail safe?
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      02-18-2014, 11:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
Good man. I forgot about that IAT reading which is very important too. I couple pre filters should work and I think the FAV will sense the pressure difference and trigger fail safe?
Yea the AM failsafe will capture that. I think OP's setup is very well thought out, don't see any huge safety concerns in terms of clogging that far upstream.
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