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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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335i limp mode party at the track
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07-25-2011, 10:37 PM | #595 | |
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1. In this thread we go by centigrade when it comes to coolant temps. So your seeing 110-115C in stop and go? That's not too abnormal. Most of us on this thread will probably see 98C tops. That's because we are running a summer coolant mix, while you're stock. You've also probably never used a cooling system flush, like prestone, or peak's formula, so your radiator has all sorts of hot spots, causing your high temps. 2. Your coolant and maybe oil is dropping, when you turn on your AC, because of the same exact reason why it drops when you turn on your heater. When you turn on, either the AC or heater, coolant flows through the heating core located inside your dashboard. A fan then blows on it. Believe it or not, with the dial at say 70F, weather you turn on the heater or AC, coolant flows through the heating core. Do some research if you doubt me, and learn how the heater/AC works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heater_core Its still 10x's better to turn on your heater at the track, not the AC. Most of us know this. The AC will turn on the compressor, and add parasitic power loss to your car. 3. Please don't take this the wrong way, cuz you're a bit of a hot head online, but NOTHING you can do to your car, will ever even come close to simulating the type of heat stress you put a car through on the track. NOTHING. Not repeated acceleration runs, stop and go in 115F,....Nothing! So thanks for your contribution, but please take your car to the track above 80F, to understand what we are dealing with. Last edited by Turkeybaster115; 07-25-2011 at 10:42 PM.. |
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07-26-2011, 09:47 AM | #596 | |||
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There is no need to educate me how the heater core works. I have pretty strong mechanical and technical background and I've had the chance to replace 2 heater cores on two different cars so far. I am also well aware of the parasitic power loss you get when the AC is turned on. When I suggested this as an option I was thinking that some people might be able to actually prefer to FINISH a track session with a car which has a bit less power than actually limping to the pits after a few hot laps. I also thought that would be a great way to cool the car down AFTER your track sessions were over. Quote:
Like I said before, I only wanted to contribute an observation that really stood out to me, that's all. I don't think anyone will be hurt by reading a few extra paragraphs or even trying my suggestions. Finally, while I don't have much track experience just yet, I am trying to get as much seat time as possible. At the moment, the car that I have is too much of a car for my skills as a driver, so I am currently not able to push it to the limit. But when that happens, I will be most definitely concentrating on proper radiator cooling as I do believe that coolant temperatures govern the oil temperatures. Why else do you think the PPK has an extra radiator? Take care and good luck on the track.
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07-26-2011, 09:50 AM | #597 |
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Turkey,
Where do you go on track events in IL? The Autobahn Race Track?
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07-26-2011, 10:39 AM | #598 |
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I've been to the Autobahn, and have done North, South, and Full course. I've also been to road america, and will be there again in a few days. I might try blackhawk farms by the end of this year.
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07-26-2011, 10:58 AM | #599 | ||
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No problem, as long as you get my point, which is that its the Heating core that's causing the coolant temp drop, not any other AC component. Which is why most of us run the heater on full blast at the track. I usually turn on the air, then press the * button to make sure the compressor is off, then crank the heater up to 84 degrees, and turn the fan on to the highest setting. It isn't uncomfortable at all, as you run at the track with both windows down, so you can give hand signals. Leaving the compressor on, and turning the temp dial down to 60 something degrees, and winding up the windows, won't yield half as much coolant temp decreases as running the heater the way i described earlier. Also note that the temp drop achieved with the heater on, full blast, is only temporary. It helps, but not as much as you think. At the track, the car is constantly adding an A$$ load of heat into the system, so your running against the inevitable. Usually with the heater on, you'll drop from 98C coolant temps to 93C instantly, but however, it will creep back up after about 2 laps.
The biggest factor at the track is ambient temps. Anything over 75 degrees with our car, is very difficult. at 50 degrees, you might not even need an oil cooler! Quote:
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Also remember that the PPK has a larger fan + air scoops for both the oil and coolant coolers, and a reprogrammed computer which runs the water pump and fan much longer and harder than stock. To handle this additional electrical power demand, it has a larger, or additional battery. So don't expect the same results with just the additional radiator. Last edited by Turkeybaster115; 07-26-2011 at 11:13 AM.. |
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07-26-2011, 11:48 AM | #600 |
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^^
Cool cool. I don't think I'll be getting the PPK kit though. There is an Australian company that makes top-notch aftermarket radiators for our cars and I am pretty sure others will follow shortly. When the time comes, I'll probably endup with an aftermarket front bumper as well to maximize airflow.
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07-26-2011, 02:41 PM | #602 |
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So after reading this, I have come to conclusion I am screwed at the track. I have an auto and outside temps will be mid 90's to low 100's. Looking to upgrade my oil cooler and drain the coolant to get water and water wetter in there. Any thing else you can think of that won't cost a couple thousand $?
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07-26-2011, 03:23 PM | #603 | |
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All over this thread we talk about what really works and you seem to know what's possible. I would get a Stett dual or ER dual oil cooler if I were you. You could add a transmission cooler that was more stout than the stock one. You would want a savvy race shop to install that for you so it's not in the way of anything. I would try it on top of the intercooler. You could get a new intercooler too. Good luck. |
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07-26-2011, 05:57 PM | #605 | |
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I am picking up a new used VR Core and building my own hoses, so that will save me almost $400 over a Stett stage 2. As far as a second one, I will have to fabrocate a bracket to work, not enough time or money for that right now. Tranny cooler, probably look at doing that over the winter. Intercooler, got to solve limp mode before I worry about cooling the air for power. |
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07-26-2011, 06:12 PM | #606 | |
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The VK is ok. It's all about getting air to it though. If you keep the stock ducting you may notice only a light advantage. |
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07-26-2011, 06:31 PM | #607 |
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I have to see what it looks like in there once i tear it all apart. Also I am going to take the foglight light out, to get more air in for the track. I would love an M3 bumper, but money money money.
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07-26-2011, 07:25 PM | #608 | |
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If you're a beginner at the track or willing to drive at 8/10s you can run all day long with no issues at 85-90F weather. At 100F+, sorry, game over. Other than that in order of cost: 1. heater on. FREE 2. distilled water + water wetter for the radiator will yield immediate results for low cost. (maybe an hour of labor to drain/fill the radiator at an indy?). 3. OC next (~$800-$1000) 4. FMIC last (no idea on trasmission cooler cost, it's a custom item) With #2,3 & 4 and 92F ambient I had my AT finish 4 out of 5 25-min advanced sessions a couple of weeks ago, which I consider more than acceptable. |
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07-26-2011, 07:30 PM | #609 | |
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08-07-2011, 08:49 PM | #611 |
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Hopefully I am good for next weekend. I installed a VK oil cooler, drained my coolant and replace with water and watter wetter, and replaced the oil with 10w-40. I removed the stock air dam for the cooler and the air dam for the brakes. I will also be removing fog light this week to get even more air. Temps will be mid to upper 90's so hopefully everything goes good.
In the local canyon and my car would hit 270 half way through the canyon with the stock setup. Today I went through it twice pushing the car even harder and only got it to 255. I know it is not the same, but there is a difference between the setups. Temps where both around 85. I will post up next weekend and let you know if it worked. |
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08-07-2011, 09:45 PM | #612 |
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Was at Road America yesterday, and I did 4x30 min sessions. Had the same setup as last time, except for the Juice box plus, new vanos exhaust solenoid, and 1 more additional bottle of Gunk Liquid Kool (Water wetter).
Ambient temps: 72-82F Oil temps after 3 laps: 270F water temps: 90-114C lap times: 3mins After a nice solid lap, I would throw an engine malfunction. Turned out to be Code: 30FF, repeatedly. Since I've never had a boost leak, I strongly suspect that the latest software needs the solenoid by pass, even with JB+ @ 50%. The good news, and MAIN thing I have to add to our never ending lovely thread, is that the Power didn't drop off after the code!!! In the past, as we've all experienced, once you throw a code and see that engine malfunction light, you've got like about 30% power left. However, with JB+, there is like about 94-100% power left! I mean you don't even feel it, and I was able to lay down the hurt the whole session. This is quite a break through, cuz I wasn't expecting it. So for those of you who have other tunes, and throw codes, or even if you are stock, and you don't want the boost turned down by the ECU when you throw a code at the track, install JB+! |
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08-09-2011, 09:37 AM | #613 | |
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Since you haven't mentioned 30FF before, it's fair to assume it's specifically tied to your JB+ implementation. Glad to see you didn't lose power, very odd though. Did you by any chance try to dial-it down and see if 30FF reoccurs? My next event is in Sep but the car is running like crap after the last limp mode, getting several parts replaced before I can go out there again. Nice ambient temps by the way for August! |
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08-09-2011, 02:50 PM | #614 | |
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What parts are you getting replaced? |
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08-09-2011, 07:46 PM | #615 |
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HPFP, o2 sensor, DMTL pump, fuel sensor, all plugs and 2 injectors, so far. And the car still runs like crap.
Typically I've had one major thing fail at a time but the last scan read like a shopping list, cyl 5/6 misfires, HPFP errors, intake valve errors etc. What bugs me is that the original HPFP was flawless for 40,000 miles but I let them replace it as part of the recall, have had 2 pumps fail on me since then. Gearing up for a Sep and an Oct event and I'm done for the year. Thinking of coming back to the track next year or at most the year after, with a dedicated track car. Just need to mentally reconcile what I can afford vs. what I want for a track car. Either way, no more 335i upgrades. |
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08-09-2011, 09:09 PM | #616 | |
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I can't lie though, because right now I'm going back and forth between staying with my car, and ditching it for an E46 M3. |
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