|
|
|
|
|
|
BMW Garage | BMW Meets | Register | Today's Posts | Search |
|
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
>
JBL MS-8 Processor Integration Thread
|
|
07-11-2010, 10:45 PM | #67 | ||||||||
Brigadier General
289
Rep 3,201
Posts |
Thanks. Have upgraded several of those.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Here is a freq response plot for a 6.5 driver from a very reputable engineering-driven manufacturer, Scan-Speak. Note how the 0 degree, 30 degree, and 60 degree lines diverge above 1K. This isn't the speaker's fault - ALL 6.5 dynamic drivers suffer from this divergence. It's the laws of physics, Captain. Midrange extends to 3K, and many tweeters won't play that low (the ones I like go lower, but many won't - and Focal definitely won't). Quote:
For your midbass, maybe. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Oh, and Earthquake, as I've said many times before, is a peaky woofer. But it sounds pretty darned good in my car with good DSP, the test MS-8 I put in got them to sound really good when it was in there, and it does happen to be pretty durable as well as fitting really well. I think the stamped-frame Morels are better sounding, but in those enclosures they need EQ too. I think everything does. The Rainbow WOB200 is probably nice but I think needs a highpass. You might want to go to Beach Autosound and talk to Tom. |
||||||||
Appreciate
0
|
07-12-2010, 02:19 AM | #68 | |
New Member
0
Rep 5
Posts |
Thanks for putting up with me. I'm just a little stressed from walking into this install blindly. This is not an easy car to do an install on. Your feedback is helpful because I have no other source of information on this besides scouring the net. I think I might have derailed a bit. I was just wondering, in your opinion, if putting a mid-bass (possibly part of a 3 way w/ 4" & tweets in the doors) under the seats would yield a good results. I have seen CDT do an install on a showcar, a BMW X3, like this http://caraudiomag.com/articles/cdt-audio-bmw-x3. Since I don't even want low pass, it appeals to me. I know the under seat speaker placement is meant for a sub. Do you think that a 6.5" mid bass would be ineffective?
Quote:
I can't argue with science, but I don't use the laws of physics to decide what I like. I don't use charts when I'm listening to music, I use my ears. Last edited by demon-; 07-12-2010 at 05:01 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-12-2010, 11:28 AM | #69 |
Private
8
Rep 69
Posts |
Any thoughts on installing the MS8 on a 2010 E90 with base audio with the Alpine upgrade kit installed? Seems the Alpine kit improves the door 4" and adds tweeters, with the MS8 driving those can the Alpine amp drive the OEM underseat woofers with decent results or would replacing those also with SW8's and driving them of the Alpine amp be good?
I'm trying to see about a several step approach to improving the stereo, thinking install the Alpine kit, stop there if it's good enough but if I wanted to go further install the MS8. Thanks for any answers. |
Appreciate
0
|
07-12-2010, 12:04 PM | #70 | |
Lieutenant General
2306
Rep 13,010
Posts |
Quote:
That should be enough to impress you. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-12-2010, 12:22 PM | #71 | |
Brigadier General
289
Rep 3,201
Posts |
Quote:
Incrementalism has more to do with our personal emotional comfort than it does with effective audio system design, I am afraid. It feels like we are taking less of a risk, but we are actually limiting our potential reward, by a great degree. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-12-2010, 02:45 PM | #72 |
Brigadier General
300
Rep 3,969
Posts |
In terms of having perfectly matched sets of speakers, with high efficiency (and therefore max output from the internal ms8 amp) I would recommend a set of three oem mids and tweeters from for the L7 system. However I have no clue how much that would cost compared to aftermarket speakers and obviously you should not spend more money on that combo compared to what Technic suggested. Sometimes you can find these speakers used so it would be worth taking a look.
The ms8 has enough power to achieve acceptable volume levels with the oem speakers but I would be skeptical about aftermarket sets with inefficient crossovers and twice the impedance. The Kicker midbass drivers, I am guessing, will surely need an aftermarket amp sooner or later so you can push them to their true potential. It is a good start though to have the ms8 power everything as the sound quality will be there for you to experience, but perhaps not the volume. |
Appreciate
0
|
07-14-2010, 07:51 PM | #73 | |
Brigadier General
300
Rep 3,969
Posts |
Quote:
This is something I missed by only testing a voicemail I left on my own answering machine. JBL supposedly has a fix in the works, we'll see. In the meantime, it's not really a big deal since I am not taking phone calls anyway cause the music just sounds too damn good to be interrupted! |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-15-2010, 07:50 PM | #74 |
New Member
0
Rep 18
Posts |
I may be stoned for suggesting this, but would the ms-8 be a good match with the bsw speakers or are they really not much better than stock. The only reason I mention this is in an attempt to use the internal amp of the ms-8, the most efficient speaker would be the best. However, I need to go to separates and away from this crappy coaxial setup in the front doors, so new speakers are a requirement in the front. Another reason is to sidestep all the mounting troubles. I would love to use rainbows or morels but I am concerned that the volume level would be meh and that there may be mounting issues in the front doors. I understand that I should stop being a cheap ass and just add an amp as well and deal with the mounting issues for aftermarket speakers. For the record I have en e92 m3 with the 6 speaker stereo. (probably the worst sounding car stereo in recent memory.) You all seem to know your stuff so go easy with your responses. Thanks.
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-16-2010, 07:12 AM | #75 | |
BMWCCA Member
7
Rep 51
Posts
Drives: '11 AW ZCP ZTP E92, '21 X5 M50
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Roanoke, VA
|
Quote:
If you have an E92 M3, then you should have at least what I have in my '11 E92 M3, which is the HiFi system. This would include seperate components in the doors, with a tweeter in the sail panel (the little triangular piece at the top front of the door) and a 4" mid in the front of the door, two 8" (mid bass) woofers, in the floor under each front seat, and two 4" mids over each of the side armrests in the backseats. The BSW solution has been favorably reviewed in Roundel, but BSW is a large purchaser of advertising in the mag, so you might want to bear that in mind. The BSW solution has been done by some members, and they seemed pretty happy with the results, search out their results, so I expect it is an improvement. When someone from BSW tried describe what it is they are selling equipment wise, BSW was a litle sketchy when challenged for details. I would be curious to see what Technic and VP (and 808MGUY) would consider the optimum speaker install for our HiFi system utilizing the MS-8. But I have bluetooth, and there is currently a glitch in the MS-8 software that causes an echo on the receiving end when using a bluetooth connected phone from your car, so they need to fix that before I would consider it. You might want to start here for some background info: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=407085
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-16-2010, 10:53 AM | #76 |
Brigadier General
289
Rep 3,201
Posts |
I will say that the BSW speakers are better than stock.
I have said before, for using BSW speakers in applications where they are not powered by a BMW system, you would want to ask BSW. My understanding is that those speakers are intended for use on BMW amplification and with BMW acoustic processing, and if that is correct, I'm not clear on the benefit of your plan. BSW speakers seem to be intended for someone who's NOT spending on amplifiers and processors? |
Appreciate
0
|
07-16-2010, 11:02 AM | #77 | |
New Member
0
Rep 18
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-16-2010, 11:35 AM | #78 | |
BMWCCA Member
7
Rep 51
Posts
Drives: '11 AW ZCP ZTP E92, '21 X5 M50
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Roanoke, VA
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-16-2010, 01:45 PM | #79 |
New Member
0
Rep 18
Posts |
Unfortunately, mine is "special." Call it a production error or whatever, but I have less than the basic stereo for my 2010. I approached BMWNA about it and they said that they reserve the right to change things mid year and that I was basically SOL. So, as hard as it is to believe, I have no tweeters in the sails. So basically you take an already sucky stereo and make it suckier. Way to go BMW.
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-16-2010, 02:31 PM | #80 | |
Lieutenant General
2306
Rep 13,010
Posts |
Quote:
That should be a very straight forward installation as long as the front speakers are shallow enough for your E92 door panels. The SSMB8 require a .75" spacer that you can make easily from MDF. You could try the Rainbow W 200 X-Plain woofers, but I don't know how they will sound in the OEM enclosure; I would guess that they should sound similar to the SSMB8 as the specs are very similar. I have the MS-8 and it really sounds great with just the auto-tuning but it really needs a center speaker to sound that great. No BT echo in my setup either, but I'm not running the internal amps, though. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-17-2010, 11:39 AM | #82 | |
Brigadier General
289
Rep 3,201
Posts |
Quote:
I have achieved a high center image without the center speaker, though, and that probably makes a lot of the difference. If, due to seat position or ear height when seated or the shape of your pinna, or your tuning, you aren't getting a high center image, the center speaker will help with that. Technic, have you tried the Kicker woofers on the MS-8 amplifier? You're talking small sealed enclosure, the least efficient kind, is why I wonder. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-18-2010, 08:38 AM | #83 | |
Lieutenant General
2306
Rep 13,010
Posts |
Quote:
I was very impressed with the bass coming from these midbass woofers with that VW OEM Nav and without any aftermarket amp or processing, so I tried them with my current M3 setup. And they still sound great in the OEM enclosures but with aftermarket amps and processing. The SSMB8 -and the Rainbow W 200 by the way- seems to be designed mostly for OEM systems, as their own manufacturer descriptions emphasize the OEM woofer replacements with the shallow size and high sensitivity. If more power is needed then a separate 2-channel amp can be used with the MS-8. But as an quick and simple upgrade I think that the MS-8 alone can power a full system in the 3-Series and satisfy most of the owners. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-27-2010, 01:12 PM | #84 |
Lieutenant
37
Rep 471
Posts |
Thinking about going the ms-8 route, does this plan sound ok ?
I have the logic 7 or whatever stereo in an 07 335 with whatever upgraded stereo option i could buy...
I have added an alpine f357 amp long ago, with hi-low converters, to power the front left and right doors (stock speakers) and to power an additional sub (just a boring 8" bazooka tube from an old car) in addition to leaving the under seat woofers hooked up to the factory amp What i want to maybe do is... Add a tweeter to the front center Replace the under seat woofers with the RMB8's or whatever they were Run the ms-8 to built in amp for Center Rear left Rear right Run the alpine amp to run the Under seat, left Under seat, right Front left Front right New sub, gonna get a JL Audio shallow box thing, 8" I do have another alpine amp available.... A f430... Just a 4 channel which i could use also... But space is an issue, so would prefer not unless it will make a big difference I like quality surely.... (home stereo is STEREO, and costs $$$$$ and i can hear the differences between cables..etc..etc..) but when I'm driving, with a modded car...(exhaust, road noise) etc.... I can sacrifice some quality for loud.... I don't need earth shaking bass....and listen to rock, pop, like clean, clear vocals, but do like the bass to be strong and well defined too... So...questions are: With the FL and FR being powered by a stronger amp (and in theory, cleaner) would the center be ok running off the MS-8 ?? Or is that going to be pointless and a bad plan ? The under seat woofers, with the Kicker drivers in there, I'm assuming that i should be setting the front speakers up in the ms-8 as 2-way, with the stock mids/tweets as a single output, and the under seat woofer as the other..... (vs running them as "subs".. Running as subs would allow me to power the center with the alpine amp also, as i could split the sub signal between those and the jl audio in the trunk all off of two channels off the alpine, instead of 3..... But I'm thinking that's a horrible idea) If running them as two way, those with experience with the kickers, what would you recommend for xover points, (both high and low) I was thinking like 250-80 or something, but sorta guessing.....should i go wider than that ? Input/suggestions etc. All greatly appreciated... Last edited by inthemiddle; 08-27-2010 at 01:41 PM.. Reason: Corrected brand name. JBL ----> JL Audio |
Appreciate
0
|
08-27-2010, 01:24 PM | #85 |
Brigadier General
289
Rep 3,201
Posts |
Center would be fine off of MS8.
07 335 had Logic 7 as standard. Interested in what JBL shallow 8" you're seeing? I've seen one that some folks call less deep, but it's not that shallow and it doesn't have enough excusion to think it's a good sub for our applications (not to mention, it will have the upper distortion components of a smaller piston). |
Appreciate
0
|
08-27-2010, 01:39 PM | #86 | |
Lieutenant
37
Rep 471
Posts |
Quote:
JL Audio shallow sub... The CP108LG W3V3. I was going to go sealed vs potted... But well, this one sees to fit the best in my car...... The things i carry, having a 5" flat box sounds very appealing, so i figured i'd try it, if it sucks, i will replace it.... But since im not trying to shake my car apart, hopefully that will suffice, and be clean enough.... Will report back on that one.... But i will admit that my hopes aren't very high... . (that's going in in place of the bazooka, regardless of MS-8 or not) |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-27-2010, 02:11 PM | #88 | |
Lieutenant
37
Rep 471
Posts |
Quote:
.....Or i suppose. Adding a 2nd of the exact same 8" box could also work ? Thanks for the review/tips/thoughts.... Oh yea, one more thing, this thread mentioned 3/4" mdf spacers for the under seat RMB8s.... But the DIY woofer replacement thread says they cant be any higher up toward the seat than stock..... Am I missing or mis-reading something ? |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Bookmarks |
|
|