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Procede v5 Aggressive Map AFR: Fact and Fiction
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10-21-2011, 07:23 PM | #1 |
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Procede v5 Aggressive Map AFR: Fact and Fiction
This applies to all Rev2.5 and Rev3s running the new beta Aggressive maps.
Today, I was remotely working with a dyno operator in Canada. He was testing the new aggressive maps (Stg3 Upgraded turbo to be precise) on a 6MT running FBO and Turbo Dynamics turbos. Never actually tested any TD turbos since most people either run upgrades from RB or ASR. Learned a few things and will probably have specific maps for them soon since they are noticeably different that RB/ASR turbos. They seem to max out a lower power level @ 17-18psi. Running them at a higher boost pressure doesn't result in more peak power. Just more midrange torque. Typical of a maxed out turbo. But they seem to spool VERY quickly. Noticeably quicker than RB/ASR from what I can tell so far. On a Dynapack dyno, where a stock 335 makes 260-265whp, these turbos maxed out at 480whp@17.5psi. Which should be about 490-500whp on a traditional Dynojet. I'll post up dyno graphs once the car is fully dialed-in. But torque is already ~520lbft But one thing that is worth showing now is an AFR vs Boost trace of the first run on the dyno (Map1, no meth) before ANY custom tuning. The Motec wideband was located in the tailpipe and the car was cat-less. This is also a load bearing dyno and was set up to ramp-up at 1000rpm every 2 seconds. Which means the run was a 10 seconds long (quite a bit longer than a 4th gear pull on a dynojet). Even during spool-up with upgraded turbos, AFR was 12.5-13:1. And then stays in the 11.8-12.7 range from then onwards. Perfectly on target. Richest at peak target/max torque. And the car made 410whp on this first run which isn't bad for 13-14psi at peak power There were a few forum members making pretty uninformed claims recently. One claim was that the Procede can't retard enough timing to run high boost in the low end/midrange without running into "problems". This has been proven wrong several times over in the last few weeks since the new Aggressive maps were released. Another claim was that the Procede wasn't able to control fuel well enough to support high boost pressures in the low-end and midrange. Also shown to be misinformation. What's more is that now the Procede can transition smoothly between fuel maps and two sets of ignition map (high octane and low octane) as a function of octane/meth flow. This means consistent fuel trims which result in consistent ignition advance. This means no post-shift timing drops, maximum consistent power and just good all-around drivability with absolutely no compromise to safety margin. In other words the Procede can change fuel injector flow and ignition advance, while driving, by up to +/- 20% and +2/-9 deg of timing respectively. Pretty neat stuff unique to this platform that we have been developing for the last 5 years. And for reference, here is the Procede datalog of the same run: Interesting enough, when reading unfiltered/raw AFR data so close to the engine, in a single bank (just 3 cylinders), you can see see the effects of exhaust pulsation at lower engine speeds (rich/lean sawtooth pattern). But once the two banks banks merge and the exhaust flow turbulate a bit, you get a smoother trace at the tailpipe (as read by Motec sensor). We may end up applying a small smoothing function for AFR logs to quiet down this noise. Shiv Last edited by OpenFlash; 10-21-2011 at 07:58 PM.. |
10-21-2011, 07:34 PM | #2 |
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I'd probably remove the "fact and fiction" part of the title just to avoid inviting the war lol
Looks pretty good to me. Interesting to hear how the TD turbos differ from RB's. Keep us updated! |
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10-21-2011, 07:39 PM | #3 |
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Is there a log to go with with this AFR/Boost trace?(IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM AM I ASKING FOR A F*CKING WAR HERE, I'D JUST LIKE TO SEE A LOG) i really hope this thread remains purely informational. I, for one, am here to learn.
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10-21-2011, 07:59 PM | #4 |
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Good idea I updated the first post with the log of that first run. Luckily, it was also emailed to me.
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10-21-2011, 08:06 PM | #5 |
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im nothing but happy with the new maps..its the first time ive ever been apprehensive/scared to go wot and feeling the rear end wanting to come un-glued..theres no way to keep gription hahahahaha
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10-21-2011, 08:28 PM | #6 | |
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10-21-2011, 10:06 PM | #8 | |
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Shiv speaks the trooth! Read it and weep children. |
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10-22-2011, 03:32 AM | #12 |
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whoa, so far so good... keep it up!
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10-22-2011, 05:13 AM | #13 |
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For comparison, I did some dynos back in June on a Dynapack. This included a 100% stock dyno with Procede removed:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=549854 My AFRs were leaner but you will notice that the AFRs were actually leaner stock than with the Procede. This was on 12-17 Maps so quite a bit has changed. I plan to go back for another Dyno with Rev 3, Helix IC, and Downpipes installed. |
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10-22-2011, 07:25 AM | #14 |
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Were these the stage 1 turbos with just the one side upgraded?
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10-22-2011, 10:18 AM | #15 | |
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10-22-2011, 10:22 AM | #16 |
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I hope so... Kinda sucks if those were stage 2 like mine considering how much they costed. From what TD told me stage 2 are based on td4L-15T.
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10-22-2011, 10:29 AM | #18 |
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10-22-2011, 10:33 AM | #19 |
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I was communicating with the shop operator, not the owner of the car. So I'm not certain which TD turbo it was. But I was under the impression of it being the full CHRA upgrade versions due to the power it made. I can't imagine a compressor-only upgrade making that kind of power at that relatively low boost pressure. ~500whp (dynojet) at ~18psi of boost? The only thing different about it compared to say, the ASR turbo, is that it didn't hold as much power to redline all other things equal. But peak power was at 6000rpm. So by no means did it peak early and fall off a cliff.
Last edited by OpenFlash; 10-22-2011 at 10:49 AM.. |
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10-22-2011, 10:44 AM | #20 |
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Not that long considering all the downtime i had.....
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10-22-2011, 10:49 AM | #21 |
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Shiv, ETA on public release of these agressive maps?
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10-22-2011, 10:52 AM | #22 | |
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Big tank for shiv for the amazing service. We will do another run with the new meth systeme shiv, so my tuner dynodoc ( Brady) will contact you. Excuse me for my english, i'm french. Shiv do you think can we do close to 500whp on the dynopack? |
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