[KaiserN54]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Im not biased since we carry Jb4,Cobb and Vishnu products.

Let me start by saying Wedge is a friend and i personally think he is a really good tuner.


My personal opinion is that if you were running conservative timing and boost you do not need to view all 6 cylinders, but when you are pushing you car near its limit( 21 psi ) then logging all 6 cylinders is a must.

Now that you backed down on boost, you are probably fine just logging one cylinder as long as you do not got too crazy with your timing advance and you keep running with e60 and 93 (hopefully you have an inline fuel pump)

I have an inline pump and a flex fuel meter to ensure I have enough corn

[Mit_Boost]

This just sounds like a "bomb" tune

Originally Posted by KaiserN54

So what? All 5 have new injectors, coils,and plugs. How off could they be?

New Injectors, Coils & Plugs are important pieces, but that does not mean that adjacent cylinders are not experiencing excessive timing corrections.

Originally Posted by stanlalee

It sure is funny how all of a sudden now that the JB4 has the 6 cyl capability its now life or death to have 6 cyl timing. Up until a month or two ago it was simply a nice peace of insurance to have while you were pushing your engines for all they were worth without

Funny how things change with time.... Not too long ago people didn't think flash tunes were necessary and were running 22 psi on RBs with Stock Fueling & Timing

Originally Posted by KaiserN54

I have an inline pump and a flex fuel meter to ensure I have enough corn

That doesn't guarantee you are achieving/maintaing the proper fuel target for your HPFP & LPFP, and Lambda/AFR.

[Ingeniator]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

That doesn't guarantee you are achieving/maintaing the proper fuel target for your HPFP & LPFP, and Lambda/AFR.

What?

How does per cylinder timing advance/knock logging have anything to do with fuelling or AFR every tune has this ability not sure why you would even bring this up.

I sometimes wonder why people flame ken's tunes so bad. He isn't pushing the motors that hard without the owners consent. I don't think that is a kill tune aggressive yes but it's not OMG stop using that procede buy a JB4 worthy.

I personally think if your pushing a motor hard without per cylinder egt your asking for problems later but how many people have that on this platform.

[froop]

Originally Posted by ragingpanda

I'm not talking about Shiv or Terry blowing motors, I'm talking about Wedge aka supertooner.

I think you need to get all sides of the story before jumping to conclusions and spouting so called "fact". Yes it is true that one or two people running the WedgeFlash blew their motors but from my reading, one of them was because the owner's car was running like shite and he (the owner) decided to turn off knock detection on a pass against Wedge's recommendation.

[C.Pop]

Your reading is a bit amiss. None the less, people who don't understand tuning arguing about tuning is... an interesting expenditure of energy. With no dog in this fight, I suggest anyone concerned about their tune to clear the slate, ignore 98% of what you read here, and start a slow basic process to understand the principles of the workings of a boosted internal combustion engine. Then do your own tune or find a guy that displays excellent working knowledge of all of these items and you can trust. They're rare.

[KaiserN54]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

This just sounds like a "bomb" tune



That doesn't guarantee you are achieving/maintaing the proper fuel target for your HPFP & LPFP, and Lambda/AFR.

I can and have logged AFR's and lambda routinely, along with fuel trims- I have been spot on with this tune for some time. This log was to monitor for throttle closure, so we could play with WDGC setting if necessary. As you know, you can only log so many things at once.

[KaiserN54]

Originally Posted by C.Pop

Your reading is a bit amiss. None the less, people who don't understand tuning arguing about tuning is... an interesting expenditure of energy. With no dog in this fight, I suggest anyone concerned about their tune to clear the slate, ignore 98% of what you read here, and start a slow basic process to understand the principles of the workings of a boosted internal combustion engine. Then do your own tune or find a guy that displays excellent working knowledge of all of these items and you can trust. They're rare.

There are two blown motors out there- someone in Florida and someone in Texas. Both had significant hardware issues, but ran hard anyways while ignoring the signs. Indeed, as froop mentioned, one guy turned off knock detection. Wedge's tune was not the proximate cause of either motor going.

So, correct our misreading. Tell us about the other blown motors you know of other than the two I just mentioned. No speculation allowed.

[Ilma]

So why do any of you think you can turn off "knock detection"?

Have you actually opened up the flash tables to see that it's a toggle called Misfire detection.....not knock detection?

Honestly...you guys are arguing over something that technically doesn't exist

Knock detection is a fundamental part of the DME's engine management and you cannot eliminate it, nor would you want to.
.
.
.

[Ingeniator]

Originally Posted by Ilma

So why do any of you think you can turn off "knock detection"?

Have you actually opened up the flash tables to see that it's a toggle called Misfire detection.....not knock detection?

Honestly...you guys are arguing over something that technically doesn't exist

Knock detection is a fundamental part of the DME's engine management and you cannot eliminate it, nor would you want to.
.
.
.

I'm unsure if you are serious. Knock is generally considered a misfire preignition is one type of misfire. You disable the misfire detection the dme will stop limping and you will have bad times.

[lukeperformance]

We know it is an aggressive tune and the OP know it is an aggressive. He just want to share the result of how hard he can push his car. He never say that we should all join in the band wagon and push our car to breaking point. I really want to see the result of the aggressive tune.

[ragingpanda]

Originally Posted by lukeperformance

We know it is an aggressive tune and the OP know it is an aggressive. He just want to share the result of how hard he can push his car. He never say that we should all join in the band wagon and push our car to breaking point. I really want to see the result of the aggressive tune .

Me too, as I missed the 4th of July spectacle.

[Miller335]

I think it's cool, thanks for sharing OP.

[11SEC]

I don't see any real results here.

A. You're missing all cylinders in the log
B. You're only logging one gear
Shift the car with all cylinders and see if it's still clean. 100% it won't be.

[Myrder]

lets see some 60-130 times or a 1/4 mile run. Does pushing this much boost make that much of a difference?

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Ilma

So why do any of you think you can turn off "knock detection"?

Have you actually opened up the flash tables to see that it's a toggle called Misfire detection.....not knock detection?

Honestly...you guys are arguing over something that technically doesn't exist

Knock detection is a fundamental part of the DME's engine management and you cannot eliminate it, nor would you want to.
.
.
.

Originally Posted by Ingeniator

I'm unsure if you are serious. Knock is generally considered a misfire preignition is one type of misfire. You disable the misfire detection the dme will stop limping and you will have bad times.

I'm not suggesting they turn misfire detection off at all......see bold above

Misfires result when a cylinder fails to fire and a limp mode condition and injector shutdown ensue because when a cylinder misfires, the excess of unburned fuel entering the exhaust can overheat the catalytic converters.

Knock detection is a different sensor system altogether and results in progressive timing reduction by the DME....

[R.G.]

So you're only able to donate $20 because you have two young children and money can get tight then turn around and run your car that hard? I'm all for being an enthusiast but that doesn't sound right.
Make sure your pressing fast forward on doing general maintenance and planning ahead for future costs. Best of luck.

[HeavyMetalRocker]

[jippii ensio]

Wedge knows N54 really well.

[KaiserN54]

Originally Posted by HeavyMetalRocker

HeavyMetalRocker is right.

I had a really clean log despite running this much boost and timing. I thought it was pretty cool so I posted it up. Some people thought it was interesting, but most just have something negative to say.

To clear up a few misconceptions:

1. We reduced the boost to 19, and running 22 was actually unintentional(on my side, since I was using Shiv's map on the procede- Wedge hadn't touched it). Either way, lots of people run 19-20lbs without issue (now I am speculating but I see logs like that all the time) I thought the fact that the stockers could hold that kind of boost was impressive nonetheless.

2. If its not the boost I am catching hell for, it must be the timing advance. The same timing advance others running Wedge's tune have been flamed for. And why? Because I own a procede rather than gods chosen one, the jb4, I can't log timing for all 6 cylinders- a feature Wedge helped develop, btw, and one which people have been tuning without for years without blowing up cars. Yes, I agree it would be ideal- more information always is. But the "bomb" talk is uncalled for sensationalism.

3. Many cars aren't mechanically up to running this aggressive of a tune- my car is, and I would never "drive through" an ongoing problem, like the guys with the blown motors did. That said, new coils, injectors, plugs, 02 sensors (all 4), lpfp, hpfp, etc all in the last year are part of why I am a tad broke at the moment. My car has 0 mechanical issues/ needs at the moment.

4. I am not totally unreceptive to feedback. If anyone has suggestions on what they would change, I will listen. I would love to log all 6 cylinders, but between the Procede and OFT, I don't think I can. Or am I wrong? As it sits (at 19 peak boost), Wedge feels its pretty safe. But if people really think he is wrong, please tell me why.

[Tzu]

Originally Posted by KaiserN54

So what? All 5 have new injectors, coils,and plugs. How off could they be?

lol

[11SEC]

Originally Posted by KaiserN54

HeavyMetalRocker is right.

I had a really clean log despite running this much boost and timing. I thought it was pretty cool so I posted it up. Some people thought it was interesting, but most just have something negative to say.

To clear up a few misconceptions:

1. We reduced the boost to 19, and running 22 was actually unintentional(on my side, since I was using Shiv's map on the procede- Wedge hadn't touched it). Either way, lots of people run 19-20lbs without issue (now I am speculating but I see logs like that all the time) I thought the fact that the stockers could hold that kind of boost was impressive nonetheless.

2. If its not the boost I am catching hell for, it must be the timing advance. The same timing advance others running Wedge's tune have been flamed for. And why? Because I own a procede rather than gods chosen one, the jb4, I can't log timing for all 6 cylinders- a feature Wedge helped develop, btw, and one which people have been tuning without for years without blowing up cars. Yes, I agree it would be ideal- more information always is. But the "bomb" talk is uncalled for sensationalism.

3. Many cars aren't mechanically up to running this aggressive of a tune- my car is, and I would never "drive through" an ongoing problem, like the guys with the blown motors did. That said, new coils, injectors, plugs, 02 sensors (all 4), lpfp, hpfp, etc all in the last year are part of why I am a tad broke at the moment. My car has 0 mechanical issues/ needs at the moment.

4. I am not totally unreceptive to feedback. If anyone has suggestions on what they would change, I will listen. I would love to log all 6 cylinders, but between the Procede and OFT, I don't think I can. Or am I wrong? As it sits (at 19 peak boost), Wedge feels its pretty safe. But if people really think he is wrong, please tell me why.

You're missing the point. Yes 3rd gear looks good one 1 cylinder. It's very possible the rest are taking a dump. However, once you shift, I guarantee all your cylinders are taking a dump because it's too aggressive. What does that mean? It means your car is losing power as soon as you shift.

I have 2 of my friends running Wedge's 15* timing map with 18-19psi. Their logs looked clean for 3rd gear. My map is 11* of timing and 18-19 psi. Except my logs are clean from 3rd gear to 5th gear with all 6 cylinders. Guess what the outcome was when we raced? They slightly pull off the initial jump, but as soon as they shifted I put 1-2 cars on them. It's better to have 6 cylinders steady at 10-11* than have 2 cylinders at 15* and 4 cylinders at 7-8*.

When your car pulls timing, you're losing power. If you're serious about tuning, you'll ditch the procede and get a JB4/Cobb so you can properly tune your car based on the whole story and don't just log 3rd gear. Log 3-4-5 so you can see how your car responds post-shift. That is if you care about 1/4 mile, mexico runs, and the track. If you're just in it for 3rd gear pulls then don't waste your time and enjoy whatever you have.

There hasn't been a single wedge flash that has broken any records. No 1/4 mile records and no dyno records. I wonder why? lol

[KaiserN54]

Originally Posted by 11SEC

You're missing the point. Yes 3rd gear looks good one 1 cylinder. It's very possible the rest are taking a dump. However, once you shift, I guarantee all your cylinders are taking a dump because it's too aggressive. What does that mean? It means your car is losing power as soon as you shift.

I have 2 of my friends running Wedge's 15* timing map with 18-19psi. Their logs looked clean for 3rd gear. My map is 11* of timing and 18-19 psi. Except my logs are clean from 3rd gear to 5th gear with all 6 cylinders. Guess what the outcome was when we raced? They slightly pull off the initial jump, but as soon as they shifted I put 1-2 cars on them. It's better to have 6 cylinders steady at 10-11* than have 2 cylinders at 15* and 4 cylinders at 7-8*.

When your car pulls timing, you're losing power. If you're serious about tuning, you'll ditch the procede and get a JB4/Cobb so you can properly tune your car based on the whole story and don't just log 3rd gear. Log 3-4-5 so you can see how your car responds post-shift. That is if you care about 1/4 mile, mexico runs, and the track. If you're just in it for 3rd gear pulls then don't waste your time and enjoy whatever you have.

There hasn't been a single wedge flash that has broken any records. No 1/4 mile records and no dyno records. I wonder why? lol

Oh, I see. This is about whose tune is superior. Okay, you win. I don't have any dogs in that fight. That said, "You are losing power, JB4/Cobb is better" is a whole different story than "LOL Wedge tunes = timebomb."

At the moment I cannot afford to buy a JB4/Cobb. I have to work with what I have.