[pdjafari]

If the only advantage of running these Blaupunkt amps is their signal sensing capability (as in no remote wire needed) I'd almost rather get a better amp with more power stable at 2 ohms instead of dealing with this!!! Is it possible to upgrade to a different/better brand all together with more power (truly stable at 2 ohms) that wont go into protection???

I still am not sure if its the amp or subs but I've already setup an RMA with crutchfield for the amp. I have an old (150x2) 300watt 2 channel profile amp in my garage but it will require a remote wire. I am almost tempted to hook that up instead of the blaupunkt just to see if the speakers pop. Perhaps that will help point to whether the issue is related to my amp or my subs...

[Technic]

Originally Posted by pdjafari

If the only advantage of running these Blaupunkt amps is their signal sensing capability (as in no remote wire needed) I'd almost rather get a better amp with more power stable at 2 ohms instead of dealing with this!!! Is it possible to upgrade to a different/better brand all together with more power (truly stable at 2 ohms) that wont go into protection???

I still am not sure if its the amp or subs but I've already setup an RMA with crutchfield for the amp. I have an old (150x2) 300watt 2 channel profile amp in my garage but it will require a remote wire. I am almost tempted to hook that up instead of the blaupunkt just to see if the speakers pop. Perhaps that will help point to whether the issue is related to my amp or my subs...

Could you take a photo of your subs wiring connections at the OEM amp? What specific pins did you connect? Do you have any other pair of speakers that you can connect to this amp?

Using that other amp is a good idea to eliminate the possibility of the SWS-8 being shot. If you need a remote wire there's one in the back of the OEM HU/iDrive CCC.

This is the first time that I read about a THA amp doing this. It seems like it is behaving as a non-stable 2 ohms amp or like its power supply is bad. Several members have used the THA555 -and even to drive the SWS-8 only- without any issues.

[pdjafari]

Originally Posted by Technic

Could you take a photo of your subs wiring connections at the OEM amp? What specific pins did you connect? Do you have any other pair of speakers that you can connect to this amp?

Using that other amp is a good idea to eliminate the possibility of the SWS-8 being shot. If you need a remote wire there's one in the back of the OEM HU/iDrive CCC.

This is the first time that I read about a THA amp doing this. It seems like it is behaving as a non-stable 2 ohms amp or like its power supply is bad. Several members have used the THA555 -and even to drive the SWS-8 only- without any issues.

Unfortunately no other speakers to connect except perhaps the OEM L7 subs?? I do have that alternate profile amp with speaker level inputs. I was hoping to connect my remote wire to the center console cigarette lighter adapter inside since it'll make wiring easier. I dont really mind running a remote as long as I can get a more stable amp @ 2 ohms.

I'll try to get a camera for a pic, mine broke a few months back. I drew a picture of what the wiring looks like.

So I used the speaker wire diagram on the forum to locate the sub output wires from the oem amp. I CUT the 4 wires which were 2 pairs wrapped around each other.

The ends which remained from the end of the OEM amp harness I used for the Blaupunkts PnP Input which is the green 4 prong connector I bought.

The other remaining ends of speaker wire I cut went to the Blaupunkts OUTPUT for speakers.

So I had a total of 4 wires going IN to teh INPUT from teh OEM L7 amp and a total of 4 wires going OUT from teh Blaupunkt amp into the 2 SWS 8s.

The one thing I did, was used male/female connectors in the trunk, I used 16 gauge wire from the Blaupunkt amp to mate to the factory speaker wiring in the trunk, and in teh cabin in the speaker enclosures I used male/female connectors on the SWS8 but used crimp connectors to mate teh 16 gauge wiring to the OEM wiring for the subs which run back to the trunk.

So heres a rough sketch

SWS 8
+ -
(my own 16 gauge wires mated to the OEM speaker wires using crimp connectors and electrical tape)

the OEM wiring then runs into the trunk and into the OEM L7 amp.

I cut the wires about 5 feet from the OEM amp input and the amp side was mated to my 16 gauge wire using male/female terminals which go into the Blaupunkts PnP INPUT.

The other end of the wires I cut (oem wires which run to the SWS8s) run to the Blaupunkts AMP OUTPUT again mated to my own 16 gauge wire using male/female terminals





The colored wiring is the cars OEM speaker wire which was cut. The black wire is my own 16 gauge which I mated to teh OEM wiring using male/female terminals along with electrical tape.

Inside the cabin in the SWS enclosures I did the same thing except I believe I used wire taps with electrical tape

[pdjafari]

Just noticed, my PNP input adapter in the picture above is actually after my 16 gauge wiring. In other words the green connector that is input into the Blaupunkt amp is not the OEM wiring, but my own 16 gauge wiring.

[Technic]

I got it... it will be a good idea to reinstall the OEM woofers (4 ohms) and check if the amp also goes into protection and the woofers start popping.

Be "gentle" with the volume with these OEM woofers and this amp, though. The OEM amp only puts out 40W max to them, and with the PnP amp they will be receiving 150W max.

That Profile amp also could help clear this issue.

Bad amps can be found even in solid brands... I bought a brand new PDX 4.100 that right after installation was producing an annoying hiss without any inputs and only if the 4 output channels were connected. If the amp was connected to only 2 channels there was no noise. That alone messed me up in the troubleshooting as I did not realize that the noise was load induced until a couple of weeks of changing wires, cables, power and ground points.

The amp was determined to be defective by the seller and an exchange is being sent.

These PnP amplifiers are supposed to be capable - or so Blaupunkt says- of being powered by the OEM HU power wire. But your experience tells me otherwise, as you are using a direct battery connection and still the sucker goes into protection.:

[pdjafari]

Technic I'm really hoping it is the amp. I bought re subs from audioone on eBay and paid for the squaretrade extended warranty on them since it was just $12 per sub. The amp has a 30 day policy but since I'm exchanging shouldn't matter. I saw another review on the same amp on crutchfield and somebody else complained about the same thing. Thinking it really might be the amp...

[Borsig]

I dont understand why you guys have to go with this blaupunkt?

Why cant you use any amp, espically a dedicated subwoofer mono amp that has high level inputs, like the alpine MRP-M500?

[pdjafari]

So I installed my old dusty Profile 2400 200x2 amp which I dont beileve is 2 ohm stable but it held up well!! No cutting off and no popping of the speakers. The profile amp has speaker level inputs and a subwoofer crossover switch.

The good news is the speakers arent popping and the amp is no longer cutting off (ie protection).

The bad news is when audio is played at very very low volumes (barely audible) you can clearly hear the 2 SWS crackling/buzzing almost like a pop corn popper or similar to crackling on a CB radio. I am not sure exactly what could be causing this but I've tried every setting (turning down bass, level off EQ, but it makes no difference). Gain is set to MIN and it still happens. The good part is once the volume is slightly turned up to where you can hear the music better, it drowns out the crackling. It's most noticeable on tracks with just bass and no treble as the treble/mid bass tends to drown it out but its still there....

Any info is appreciated!! I think I'll still get that kenwood since perhaps it will provide a cleaner signal?? I just need to get rid of the crackling at low volumes and Im golden!!

[Technic]

Originally Posted by pdjafari

So I installed my old dusty Profile 2400 200x2 amp which I dont beileve is 2 ohm stable but it held up well!! No cutting off and no popping of the speakers. The profile amp has speaker level inputs and a subwoofer crossover switch.

The good news is the speakers arent popping and the amp is no longer cutting off (ie protection).

The bad news is when audio is played at very very low volumes (barely audible) you can clearly hear the 2 SWS crackling/buzzing almost like a pop corn popper or similar to crackling on a CB radio. I am not sure exactly what could be causing this but I've tried every setting (turning down bass, level off EQ, but it makes no difference). Gain is set to MIN and it still happens. The good part is once the volume is slightly turned up to where you can hear the music better, it drowns out the crackling. It's most noticeable on tracks with just bass and no treble as the treble/mid bass tends to drown it out but its still there....

Any info is appreciated!! I think I'll still get that kenwood since perhaps it will provide a cleaner signal?? I just need to get rid of the crackling at low volumes and Im golden!!

Two different amps and still speaker noises... or the SWS-8 are shot/install is not right or the amp wiring -be the speakers or power/ground- is not tight.

[pdjafari]

Originally Posted by Technic

Two different amps and still speaker noises... or the SWS-8 are shot/install is not right or the amp wiring -be the speakers or power/ground- is not tight.

It is not present in between CD tracks or silent parts of music - it's only there with music/vocals/bass. It doesn't increase with volume - I only hear it at low levels and it sounds fuzzy like radio static.....but again not very audible

Power connector is tight, ground wire is shared (which I wasnt too confident about). Ground wire I used is located on drivers side fender which looked to be shared by other devices. Speaker connections are tight, only part of the speaker wiring I didnt really like was the fact I used wire taps to wire the SWS8 to the OEM wiring under the seats, other than that....

But I feel the prob. cant be the speakers or the wiring, whats the likelihood both subs have the same problems? I think its wiring back by the amp somewhere....like the ground perhaps...

Low or nonexistent Idle current for the output drivers causing distortion?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by pdjafari

It is not present in between CD tracks or silent parts of music - it's only there with music/vocals/bass. It doesn't increase with volume - I only hear it at low levels and it sounds fuzzy like radio static.....but again not very audible

Power connector is tight, ground wire is shared (which I wasnt too confident about). Ground wire I used is located on drivers side fender which looked to be shared by other devices. Speaker connections are tight, only part of the speaker wiring I didnt really like was the fact I used wire taps to wire the SWS8 to the OEM wiring under the seats, other than that....

But I feel the prob. cant be the speakers or the wiring, whats the likelihood both subs have the same problems? I think its wiring back by the amp somewhere....like the ground perhaps...

Low or nonexistent Idle current for the output drivers causing distortion?

I don't think that your problem is something "fancy"... or the SWS-8 got damaged by the Blaupunkt amp "spurts" or the wiring is loose or shorted out somewhere.

Let's get back to basics:

- check that the OEM amp connector pins used for inputs and outputs of the underseat subs are Left (8+ and 18-) and Right (6+ and 16-).

- take one or both enclosures out of the car, seal somehow the big port, run new wiring from the amp to the speakers , hold the enclosure in your hands and play some bass songs or tones. Check for leaks in the SWS-8 seals and for those "pops". Regardless of the seals being OK or not, hold fixing it for awhile... remove that SWS-8 and re-install the OEM sub and play the music again. There should not be any pops; if there are with the OEM woofers (4 ohms) then it could be that this new amp is acting up as it is not 2-ohms stable or there could be that the amp ground connector is not tight enough (solder is best instead of crimping).

[pdjafari]

Originally Posted by Technic

I don't think that your problem is something "fancy"... or the SWS-8 got damaged by the Blaupunkt amp "spurts" or the wiring is loose or shorted out somewhere.

Let's get back to basics:

- check that the OEM amp connector pins used for inputs and outputs of the underseat subs are Left (8+ and 18-) and Right (6+ and 16-).

- take one or both enclosures out of the car, seal somehow the big port, run new wiring from the amp to the speakers , hold the enclosure in your hands and play some bass songs or tones. Check for leaks in the SWS-8 seals and for those "pops". Regardless of the seals being OK or not, hold fixing it for awhile... remove that SWS-8 and re-install the OEM sub and play the music again. There should not be any pops; if there are with the OEM woofers (4 ohms) then it could be that this new amp is acting up as it is not 2-ohms stable or there could be that the amp ground connector is not tight enough (solder is best instead of crimping).

In the items I bolded above, are you referring to the wiring at the subs (in the enclosures??)? As far as I recall the color of the wires was what I used to run the + - along with in the trunk where I made sure to connect the proper channels to their respective speaker level inputs.

What I will do tomorrow (hopefully) is leave in the Profile amp which I put in today, and run completely new wire to a single OEM sub and see how it reacts to really love volumes. I'll look to see if one sub reacts differently from the other. Currently both subs are making the crackling so if the wiring is the culprit I suspect wiring a completely new wire with no splicing of the OEM wires or use of taps will def. pin point the problem.

Here are scenarios I want to look at

1) Is it the wiring (with wire taps or crimping connections in the trunk the culprit) -
Possible solution: Running completely new wire to 1 SWS compare it to the other with the 'messed up' wiring see if its any different.

2) Is the amp (old 12 year old profile the culprit??)
Possible solution: Swap out the profile for the Kenwood coming Wednesday. This will be the last resort as Id much rather find out if the subs are blown etc...

3) Are the subs the culprit (blown??)
Possible Solution: WIth that new speaker wire ran from teh Profile amp, wire up an OEM sub to see if it crackles. If the OEM sub crackles just like the SWS then the amp should be the culprit

4) Enclosures the culprit??
Possible solution: Remove SWS from enclosure and new wire and see if it crackles outside enclosure

Then I will proceed with the steps you outlined above in terms of holding it outside teh enclosure then putting it back in. I dont know if I sealed the enclosures well, but I cant imagine a poor seal causing crackling noises under low volume...perhaps at high volumes...

I also ordered the kenwood amp along with 28 ft of 14 gauge twisted speaker wire. I am going to run completely separate speaker wires from the new kenwood all the way to the SWS 8s. But before I even attempt to add more items to the mix, I will work with the Profile/SWS8s/OEM subs to see if I can figure out what the problem is.

My ground wire is also not crimped, its an actual RF grounding wire that I bought from Best Buy from an Amp install Kit. It's 10 gauge I believe, the only thing about the ground is that the mount point is shared by some other things. I only hope those other things which are also grounded there arent introducing some kind of noise into the system...Strange that its only audible at low volume levels although it prob. exists even at high volume but is simply drowned out...

[pdjafari]

Additionally, the wiring diagram for the OEM L7 system was the one you provided on page 1 or 2 here

http://www.fdebrus.be/car/logic7.jpg

I used that guide to determine which color wires belonged to what and they matched up.

In that link I saw RT/WS and BR/GE for SUB LEFT, I imagine thats the drivers side since the colors Red/White stripe matched as well as brown/green stripe (actually yellow).

On the passenger side RT/BL and BR/WS for SUB RIGHT. I figured thats the passenger side since teh color of the wiers red/blue stripe and Brown/white stripe matched as well.

Hopefully thats correct

[techforge]

This almost sounds like a short, bad connection, or the wires are mismatched. I've had grounding problems with home equipment and it produced a background 60Hz hum all the time, but no popping. Hope you can find the problem. I'm holding off on installing mine until I see an explanation.

[kaigoss69]

Just installed the THA1250PnP amp. For now I can say it works just fine. Played a quick track and the stock subs played nice and tight. Definitely an improvement. Did not turn it up as the wife was giving me the look.... (you know, the "are you out here again fiddling around with your car instead of spending time with your family" look ).

I will report back later after I have had some time to play around. I am still debating whether or not I should install the SWS-8.

[techforge]

You mean the "you'd rather play with your car than watch another tivo'd episode of desperate housewives with me" look?

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by techforge

You mean the "you'd rather play with your car than watch another tivo'd episode of desperate housewives with me" look?

Yep, same look!

[kaigoss69]

Well I was able to spend some time in the car today and I must say I am surprised how well the OEM woofers hold up with the additional power. There was definitely a LOT more low-end present than with the OEM amp. Also, the mid-bass improved as well which I am very happy about. I am thinking that the SWS-8 will probably elevate everything to another level but the current set-up would probably satisfy 50% of the people with the amount of bass from the OEM woofers.

I am a bit disappointed though in the "boominess" I was getting on the low end, which I am sure is related to the enclosure design. At higher volume levels, the low end also got a bit sloppy at times, probably due to the inability of the OEM woofers to play linear in the lower frequency band, given the stronger signal. I did try to raise the high pass filter all the way up to around 120Hz, and that did reduce the sloppy play, but it did not necessarily help much with the boominess.

The enclosure design, so I have read on other forums, is IB (infinite baffle) which normally requires a driver designed for such an application. IB is basically an application where you have no enclosed volume of air behind the woofer, so it is basically playing "free air". Examples of IB would be the 4" drivers in our doors, or perhaps a midrange driver or small woofer installed on the rear shelf. I will have to keep this in mind if I decide to get a different woofer besides the SWS, as I said IB requires specialized drivers.

As far as the head unit equalizer settings go, I went totally flat at 80Hz and 200Hz and bass is set at "0". The gain on the amp is set at about 10 o'clock and this gives me a pretty good blend of the bass with the rest of the system.

The amp install was as easy as it gets and the performance of the BP so far is very good. You cannot beat the simplicity of speaker level inputs and the auto turn-on circuit.

I will report back once I have the SWS installed, which may very well end up being next year.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

Well I was able to spend some time in the car today and I must say I am surprised how well the OEM woofers hold up with the additional power. There was definitely a LOT more low-end present than with the OEM amp. Also, the mid-bass improved as well which I am very happy about. I am thinking that the SWS-8 will probably elevate everything to another level but the current set-up would probably satisfy 50% of the people with the amount of bass from the OEM woofers.

I am a bit disappointed though in the "boominess" I was getting on the low end, which I am sure is related to the enclosure design. At higher volume levels, the low end also got a bit sloppy at times, probably due to the inability of the OEM woofers to play linear in the lower frequency band, given the stronger signal. I did try to raise the high pass filter all the way up to around 120Hz, and that did reduce the sloppy play, but it did not necessarily help much with the boominess.

The enclosure design, so I have read on other forums, is IB (infinite baffle) which normally requires a driver designed for such an application. IB is basically an application where you have no enclosed volume of air behind the woofer, so it is basically playing "free air". Examples of IB would be the 4" drivers in our doors, or perhaps a midrange driver or small woofer installed on the rear shelf. I will have to keep this in mind if I decide to get a different woofer besides the SWS, as I said IB requires specialized drivers.

As far as the head unit equalizer settings go, I went totally flat at 80Hz and 200Hz and bass is set at "0". The gain on the amp is set at about 10 o'clock and this gives me a pretty good blend of the bass with the rest of the system.

The amp install was as easy as it gets and the performance of the BP so far is very good. You cannot beat the simplicity of speaker level inputs and the auto turn-on circuit.

I will report back once I have the SWS installed, which may very well end up being next year.

Excellent...

What I found out is that by itself the SWS-8 seems to be designed for this OEM enclosure even better than the Individual OEM subs, as there is more defined bass at the lower 30Hz+ without "boominess". And that was with the Individual OEM amp and not aftermarket.

IMO, the real improvement in bass response and deep punch is when the SWS-8s are tuned with a dedicated EQ, with at least 10 bands between 30Hz and 200Hz. I set my low pass crossover to 150Hz and tuned those bands for a blend of sub and mid sub punch without that "boom box" sound. I don't think that the built in crossovers in the amps will be capable to overcome those OEM bass enclosures limitations by themselves.

[kaigoss69]

I had another go at it, playing around with the high pass x-over some more. The scale is 10 - 250Hz so you would think the 12 o'clock position is about 130 Hz, but the scal must be logarithmic. I set it at about 1 o'clock position and I could still hear a 20 Hz test tone, albeit not as loud as higher tones. My best guess would be about 50Hz for the 1 o'clock position. Once I had it set there, the "boominess" disappeared, and I was left with tight, well-defined bass notes.

I wanted to find out the OEM x-over frequency between the sub and the door speakers so I played a 20 - 120 Hz sweep (I didn't have anything higher) and it seemed the door speakers were starting to play right around 100 - 110Hz. My best guess would be that they are x-ed over at 150Hz, but I am no expert on this.

Once potential issue I have noticed is that the amp is always turned on. So once I unlock the car and open the trunk, the green light is on, even though the radio is off. Not sure, at this point, if some sort of signal goes through the wires as soon as the car is unlocked or if my auto turn off circuits are not working properly. I will keep an eye on it.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

I had another go at it, playing around with the high pass x-over some more. The scale is 10 - 250Hz so you would think the 12 o'clock position is about 130 Hz, but the scal must be logarithmic. I set it at about 1 o'clock position and I could still hear a 20 Hz test tone, albeit not as loud as higher tones. My best guess would be about 50Hz for the 1 o'clock position. Once I had it set there, the "boominess" disappeared, and I was left with tight, well-defined bass notes.

I wanted to find out the OEM x-over frequency between the sub and the door speakers so I played a 20 - 120 Hz sweep (I didn't have anything higher) and it seemed the door speakers were starting to play right around 100 - 110Hz. My best guess would be that they are x-ed over at 150Hz, but I am no expert on this.

Once potential issue I have noticed is that the amp is always turned on. So once I unlock the car and open the trunk, the green light is on, even though the radio is off. Not sure, at this point, if some sort of signal goes through the wires as soon as the car is unlocked or if my auto turn off circuits are not working properly. I will keep an eye on it.

In my Individual Audio the crossover point between the subs and mids is around 150Hz, so I assume that the Logic7 is somewhere close or just equal to that.

About your THA amp turn on, it is actually switching like the OEM amp. The OEM amp will turn on by just opening any door or the trunk, and will turn off some 10 minutes after closing the last door or trunk. Your THA signal sensing is just picking up some voltage from the sub OEM amp outputs... there is no problem with that.

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by Technic

About your THA amp turn on, it is actually switching like the OEM amp. The OEM amp will turn on by just opening any door or the trunk, and will turn off some 10 minutes after closing the last door or trunk. Your THA signal sensing is just picking up some voltage from the sub OEM amp outputs... there is no problem with that.

Great, that's what I was hoping!

I emailed Blaupunkt in Deutschland regarding the highpass filter and if they can give me an approximate scale for the Hz settings. I'll post whatever I find out.