[whosdady]

Originally Posted by justpete

What torque did you use on the bolts?

According to Bentley the subframe bolts should not be reused and the torque is 73.7 ft-lbs. The tension struts, front supports, whatever are torqued to 34.6 ft-lb and then rotated an additional 90 degrees. The bolts are supposed to be replaced there too. it's not clear if the front support torque is the bolt that holds them to the car body instead of the bolt torque that holds the subframe to the front support.

Did you reinstall the stop plates on the rear bushings?

Car's in the shop so I can't look at it right now, sorry.

I noticed both of these issues during Rob's install. You are the only one I know who has these installed and I'm wondering if you had more tq that you might be facing similar issues.

I'm not a mechanical engineer or a machinist but clearly there is a problem. Rob goes gets out the tq wrench with every bolt he tightens (assuming he doesn't know the specs from memory) I sent a pic to Chris at Turner and he said the install was correct.

Question 1: Why does the front bushing sit perfectly flush/inside the top portion of the frame but sit 1/4 inch from being flush on the bottom side/ top of the subframe brace? It just doesn't make sense.

That combined with the larger center bores, compared to the diameter of the bolts allow for more movement.

[whosdady]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Looking at AKG black subframe bushings now. My install guys recommended them. They look like they're substantially stiffer but still have a little give to suppress vibrations and noise. Unless you guys have any negative reasons not to I'll give them a shot.
Thx

A friend of mine on this forum installed them and said they were great but didn't eliminate all of the movement.

I would look at the group N or solid aluminum. I'm getting very close to ordering the later of the two.

[gzim335]

Im having same issue with stock sfb,every second gear wot rear steers badly n with m3 arms my front is sensitive so very annoying to correct,need a working solution guys thank you

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by whosdady

A friend of mine on this forum installed them and said they were great but didn't eliminate all of the movement.

I would look at the group N or solid aluminum. I'm getting very close to ordering the later of the two.

Would solid aluminum have enough give so the diff etc doesn't start filling the cabin with noises and vibrations as well as make it ride super harsh? I'll have a rear diff lockdown too as well as coilovers etc so I'm hoping that will tighten it up enough. Just worried because this still needs to be a daily driver for lots of miles.
Thx

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Would solid aluminum have enough give so the diff etc doesn't start filling the cabin with noises and vibrations as well as make it ride super harsh? I'll have a rear diff lockdown too as well as coilovers etc so I'm hoping that will tighten it up enough. Just worried because this still needs to be a daily driver for lots of miles.
Thx

I have clubsports (KW competion coilovers), lockdown kit abd solid Delrin at least didn't cause any vibration...I seriously doubt solid aluminium will cause much vibration...maybe a bit of whine.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by robc1976

I have clubsports (KW competion coilovers), lockdown kit abd solid Delrin at least didn't cause any vibration...I seriously doubt solid aluminium will cause much vibration...maybe a bit of whine.

I never hear any whine from the diff even with the Delrin diff bushings and mount. But there's a lot of whine at speed when lifting. It sounds like it comes from the trans but its loudness might be related to the solid engine mounts, dunno. It's pretty loud, doesn't bother me but neither does the gear rattle which is also quite loud. Is the whine being talked about here a noise that's present under acceleration or steady speeds?

[EJ_3]

Originally Posted by Jsoboti

Learning a lot from this thread and I've decided on Powerflex blacks, I AutoX every months and the side to side on this car causes me to break loose forcing me to slow down more than the M3 guys I'm competing against.

Looking at the ECS website it looks like there is "Rear Subframe Rear Position" and "Rear Subframe Front Position"

Im not exactly which I need, or maybe both. Can someone please explain the difference and what most people do?

Thanks

Originally Posted by robc1976

I would do powerflex black minimum after seeing how soft yellow is.

Originally Posted by Stucks

now thinking about ordering the black 95a bushings.....lol

Just throwing it out there, ECS Tuning is having a sale on Power Flex items for a limited time. Figured I'll throw that out there and save someone 15%.

Originally Posted by robc1976

I am very glad I chose these, HUGE improvement.

1. I actually feel less v
NVH than yellow powerflex
2. Side to side is completely gone
3. Car tracks straight!
4. Only noise I hear is slight differential whine (hardly hear it.

This is a no brainer mod in my opinion.

Originally Posted by robc1976

Update:

I am asking for a refund on these Delrin bushings. Subframe is moving under 1/2 throttle and here is why.

The bolt going into the Delrin metal sleeve is much smaller than the hole in the Delrin bushing. This will allow for significant movement since nothing will keep subframe from moving as there is space around the bolt for it to move side to side. In the front there are guides but in the rear there is none. The bolt has to be the same size as inside hole on bushing or you will get movement period.

I find it odd on the solid mounts Turner sells the OEM bolts are exactly the same size as hole in bushing.

I hope this get rectified or you get a full refund.

[robc1976]

I hope it gets fixed, I just got a alignment and I know it's not the alignment causing this severe side to side motion. It feels line suspension stays still and body moves...very odd. Here is the alignment specs...front camber getting fixed tomorrow. Its off by 1/2 degeee on one side.

[robc1976]

Maybe the bushings are not to blame, I noticed my tires on outside edge ate not even making contact. This is really odd since before the alignment I was at -2.0 and made contact...I then asked for less camber of -1.5 (they got it close at around -1.4) wich would give me more contact. With the pics below it seems I have way more camber as the outside edges arnt even touching the road....

[justpete]

Originally Posted by robc1976

Maybe the bushings are not to blame, I noticed my tires on outside edge ate not even making contact. This is really odd since before the alignment I was at -2.0 and made contact...I then asked for less camber of -1.5 (they got it close at around -1.4) wich would give me more contact. With the pics below it seems I have way more camber as the outside edges arnt even touching the road....

You probably also have toe-out now as well which would explain the driving response. The subframe needs to be aligned and "indexed" although I've never been real clear on what the latter means. Removing and replacing the subframe always requires a realignment, I think.

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by justpete

You probably also have toe-out now as well which would explain the driving response. The subframe needs to be aligned and "indexed" although I've never been real clear on what the latter means. Removing and replacing the subframe always requires a realignment, I think.

I got it aligned right after.

[HULKNASTY]

Think I'm going with PF black subframe and diff! My car doesn't have much power so I just want to tighten up the rear, also getting m3 arms and coilovers

Does this sound alright for a dd?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by robc1976

I got it aligned right after.

D'Oh! Sorry, I knew that...

Dunno how it's possible to get that much camber.

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by justpete

D'Oh! Sorry, I knew that...

Dunno how it's possible to get that much camber.

There sheet say it's -1.37...no way lol! It's in the -3.0 range I would guess

[robc1976]

I just hope it's not the subframe moving and Channing alignment.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by robc1976

There sheet say it's -1.37...no way lol! It's in the -3.0 range I would guess

Yeah, I'm thinking that alignment sheet might not be related to reality at all. Heck, my rear wheels are near three degrees and they don't look that angled. Wow. Did they change ride height at all?

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by justpete

Yeah, I'm thinking that alignment sheet might not be related to reality at all. Heck, my rear wheels are near three degrees and they don't look that angled. Wow. Did they change ride height at all?

I agree, doesn't even seem like reality...Those rears are bad!

[tres]

Wow ive never seen that before hope you get it fixed soon.

[Stucks]

Originally Posted by robc1976

I just hope it's not the subframe moving and Channing alignment.

Something tells me it is the bushings and subframe moving lol. my tires looked like that too. my subframe easily has movement cause the stock bushings are shot lol.

[ashmostro]

Originally Posted by robc1976

Update:

I am asking for a refund on these Delrin bushings. Subframe is moving under 1/2 throttle and here is why.

The bolt going into the Delrin metal sleeve is much smaller than the hole in the Delrin bushing. This will allow for significant movement since nothing will keep subframe from moving as there is space around the bolt for it to move side to side. In the front there are guides but in the rear there is none. The bolt has to be the same size as inside hole on bushing or you will get movement period.

I find it odd on the solid mounts Turner sells the OEM bolts are exactly the same size as hole in bushing.

Brother I really think you may have gotten one wrong part. That sleeve just didn't look right to me when you first posted up.

Hope you get it fixed! Mis indexed sf will cause the problems you are having.

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by ashmostro

Brother I really think you may have gotten one wrong part. That sleeve just didn't look right to me when you first posted up.

Hope you get it fixed! Mis indexed sf will cause the problems you are having.

Turner confirmed all is correct, has my car realigned by a alignment specialist..bmw had my right rear tire -0.46 degrees (toed out). I Ann curious how you would tell if subframe is out of index?

[ashmostro]

My post wasn't well-worded... it's not so much that as that the alignment will address SF indexing. That's why even if you don't change the suspension settings or parts at all, if you remove the SF you should realign as a best practice.