[rjahl]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

that doesn't really have anything to do with high RPM though. It doesn't appear to take too long to go from fully closed to WOT (not like that really matters - how often do you floor it from idle?) - I think I calculated it once based on the parameters in the DME but I don't remember the result.

Maybe I miss under stood the question. I thought he was concerned about the time it would take the eccentric cam to return to full throttle after lifting his right foot to shift.

I don't think the cam acts that quick. You should be able to lift you foot from the throttle , shift and get back on the throttle before the eccentric cam moves all the to idle. There is some software delay and mechanical delay.

[hassmaschine]

yeah I picked that up the second time around. He was asking if the response changed at high RPM, and the answer is no. RPM has nothing to do with the eccentric shaft movement.

[David0ff]

*Manual Transmission

So lets say im flooring in 2nd gear from an arbitrary 4000 rpm.
On a remap I would assume that above 4000 RPM the valves will be fully opened at WOT.

I get to 7000 RPM, time to shift, Valves are still fully open

Now I clutch, off gas ...

What happens to the excentric at this very moment, does it stay positioned for WOT full valve open or does it back off into idle mode for that split second in between shifts?

Thx

[justpete]

Most of the delay comes from being limited in the rate of change of the motor current owing to the maximum voltage applied and the inductance. Takes a lot of current to move that motor quickly so the inductance must be relatively low but still, it can't be anywhere close to instantaneous.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by David0ff

*Manual Transmission

So lets say im flooring in 2nd gear from an arbitrary 4000 rpm.
On a remap I would assume that above 4000 RPM the valves will be fully opened at WOT.

I get to 7000 RPM, time to shift, Valves are still fully open

Now I clutch, off gas ...

What happens to the excentric at this very moment, does it stay positioned for WOT full valve open or does it back off into idle mode for that split second in between shifts?

Thx

I don't think it stays at WOT but it doesn't close all the way either. The DME has a clutch switch input and gear detection algorithms for a reason.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by justpete

Most of the delay comes from being limited in the rate of change of the motor current owing to the maximum voltage applied and the inductance. Takes a lot of current to move that motor quickly so the inductance must be relatively low but still, it can't be anywhere close to instantaneous.

I think it draws something like 90 amps at full load? I don't remember exactly. I believe that's why there's a HUGE capacitor inside the DME.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

I think it draws something like 90 amps at full load? I don't remember exactly. I believe that's why there's a HUGE capacitor inside the DME.

I think you will find that the DME runs the eccentric cam at different speeds based on the proximity of the closest physical stop. Overrunning is a problem on this type of drive system. Fast requires space and time to slow down.

I think we also have some built in programmed delay between foot off the throttle and cam rotation. Safety comes first.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by rjahl

I think you will find that the DME runs the eccentric cam at different speeds based on the proximity of the closest physical stop. Overrunning is a problem on this type of drive system. Fast requires space and time to slow down.

I think we also have some built in programmed delay between foot off the throttle and cam rotation. Safety comes first.

It would have to, DSP motor control will manage the acceleration profile within the limits of the motor (plus load) load line as well as the physical stops.

[94marcus]

yo honestly all i care about is cams... don't care about no 10 degree retard or variable timing cam shafts rotating at some axle point cause if you ask me its all magic. Im just praying on cams��

[Bob@BPC]

Looking for someone local with a n52 with the 3 stage rwd & manual trans to do a beta Alpha N tune. I will discount the price of the standard tune and I will need the car for at least 3 days for testing. Please PM me if you are interested.

[Taskmaster]

Someone please!

[W37V]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

Looking for someone local with a n52 with the 3 stage rwd & manual trans to do a beta Alpha N tune. I will discount the price of the standard tune and I will need the car for at least 3 days for testing. Please PM me if you are interested.

Damn... I would've done it, if it wasn't 6 hour trek one way.

Can you do it remotely?

[Bob@BPC]

Originally Posted by W37V

Damn... I would've done it, if it wasn't 6 hour trek one way.

Can you do it remotely?

I can, but you would need access to a dyno, and thats going to cost some big bucks to rent one out

[W37V]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

I can, but you would need access to a dyno, and thats going to cost some big bucks to rent one out

So, what are you expecting to gain with this? Have you done any runs on this set up? What were results? Damn, man I am super intrigued. Intrigued enough to even consider coming down for a weekend.

[rjahl]

I'd love to try this but I have the wrong car and I live too far away.

You guys are way smarter than me so I'm sure you have already figured that without the external throttle body, valvtronic fault mode will be WOT with few good options for the driver. Will you be changing the eccentric cam fault storage location to idle or to a stop?

[Bob@BPC]

Originally Posted by W37V

So, what are you expecting to gain with this? Have you done any runs on this set up? What were results? Damn, man I am super intrigued. Intrigued enough to even consider coming down for a weekend.

Yes, but with the n54 manifold, people want to see if we can carry the power out just like we did with that manifold and hoping to make somewhere around 250+ with full exhaust and headers.

[Taskmaster]

Salavating

[W37V]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

Yes, but with the n54 manifold, people want to see if we can carry the power out just like we did with that manifold and hoping to make somewhere around 250+ with full exhaust and headers.

Well.. keep us posted. I would love to see what develops. I got AA headers on already and 3IM. Unfortunately I don't have 3 days just to hang around, but once you are out of beta, I wouldn't mind coming down for a day to get the tune.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by W37V

Well.. keep us posted. I would love to see what develops. I got AA headers on already and 3IM. Unfortunately I don't have 3 days just to hang around, but once you are out of beta, I wouldn't mind coming down for a day to get the tune.

You would be able to send the ECU out to have it reflashed and sent back.

We need a test car for this.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by rjahl

I'd love to try this but I have the wrong car and I live too far away.

You guys are way smarter than me so I'm sure you have already figured that without the external throttle body, valvtronic fault mode will be WOT with few good options for the driver. Will you be changing the eccentric cam fault storage location to idle or to a stop?

Wouldn't you want the engine to shut off if the Valvetronic faulted? Not the safest thing but safer than an unexpected wot.

[hassmaschine]

You can't force an engine shut down, that isn't safe either.

Rjahl brings up a good point though. Maybe set it to 50% lift? Enough that you can still move but not enough to go too out of control. The DME will also use vanos/ignition/fuel to limit torque somewhat.

Of course, you can delete the MAF, run alpha-n and retain the throttle.

[W37V]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

You would be able to send the ECU out to have it reflashed and sent back.

We need a test car for this.

Do they need a car or just the ECU?