Something cool (n54 vs 3sm Page 5)

Taskmaster · 11-21-2015, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

It doesnt say anything about testing it at 8k. It just says it becomes less efficient at high rpm.

Mike, i was talking about what SDemetris said. I saw that BPC it tuning it to that, but the dyno posted so far ends at the stock redline.

Hass, for some reason they (and everyone else) seem to get less power from 325i's why? Would this mean gains are higher on 328i/MSV80 cars?

I just want a Plug and play kit....

Mike. · 11-21-2015, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

It doesnt say anything about testing it at 8k. It just says it becomes less efficient at high rpm.

Mike, i was talking about what SDemetris said. I saw that BPC it tuning it to that, but the dyno posted so far ends at the stock redline.

Ah ok. Also, the way they made it sounds it that both of those dynos are before the manual swap. They got that number intake/manifold/exhaust/tune/noTB which is really impressive.

W37V · 11-21-2015, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Bimmer Performance Center LLC
261/223 peak numbers so far and still the process of getting the power to carry out as far to 8000rpm as possible. Motor has turned 8000rpm already but are still in the process of scaling the powerband.

i wonder what that powerband looked liked.

Also, it appears there is a huge dip in power at 4500 rpm. I thought this dip mainly happens because of 3im. But they are not running any manifold. Does anyone know why is it still there?

hassmaschine · 11-21-2015, 07:32 AM

could be VANOS tuning

hassmaschine · 11-21-2015, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Hass, for some reason they (and everyone else) seem to get less power from 325i's why? Would this mean gains are higher on 328i/MSV80 cars?

I just want a Plug and play kit....

less power than what? I don't think there's any advantage to a 328i over a 325i, or vice versa. Same engine, basically the same tune. This 325i seems to be doing OK?

also it doesn't look like they are running a filter. it needs a plenum/air box of some sort. a filter will probably drop that peak power a bit - 5hp or so. But you don't want to DD with no air filter.. Maybe it would be balanced out by not sucking in hot air from the engine bay.

Taskmaster · 11-21-2015, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

less power than what? I don't think there's any advantage to a 328i over a 325i, or vice versa. Same engine, basically the same tune. This 325i seems to be doing OK?

also it doesn't look like they are running a filter. it needs a plenum/air box of some sort. a filter will probably drop that peak power a bit - 5hp or so. But you don't want to DD with no air filter.. Maybe it would be balanced out by not sucking in hot air from the engine bay.

Their full bolt on 325i was lower (substantially) than a bolt on 328i, and the power peak occurred lower. Odd...

hassmaschine · 11-21-2015, 02:01 PM

Who knows. It was still an automatic. Theres no real difference between a 325i and 328i engine.

Taskmaster · 11-21-2015, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Who knows. It was still an automatic. Theres no real difference between a 325i and 328i engine.

Exactly, it has to be a software issue .

[IMG]http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...ps6cphukne.jpg[/IMG]

peak power at 6300rpm on a intake/header/exhaust/ tune car? Stock intake manifold, but that wouldn't make a difference.

hassmaschine · 11-21-2015, 02:07 PM

Its not the DME, they are the same as the 330i just with differences in the tune.

rjahl · 11-21-2015, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Its not the DME, they are the same as the 330i just with differences in the tune.

On a side note, Did you notice the BMW N52 based Z4 2.5 SI tune retards the intake cam to 124.9 degrees while our tunes are limited to 120? It's the same actuator as the 3.0. Do you think the extra 5 degrees is something we should try to use?

You did mentioned it would be good to have an extra 5 or 10 degrees retard.

justpete · 11-21-2015, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjahl

On a side note, Did you notice the BMW N52 based Z4 2.5 SI tune retards the intake cam to 124.9 degrees while our tunes are limited to 120? It's the same actuator as the 3.0. Do you think the extra 5 degrees is something we should try to use?

You did mentioned it would be good to have an extra 5 or 10 degrees retard.

Ya know, that might be part of the 'soft limiter', maybe used to differentiate performance. Gotta love marketing...

rjahl · 11-21-2015, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justpete

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjahl

On a side note, Did you notice the BMW N52 based Z4 2.5 SI tune retards the intake cam to 124.9 degrees while our tunes are limited to 120? It's the same actuator as the 3.0. Do you think the extra 5 degrees is something we should try to use?

You did mentioned it would be good to have an extra 5 or 10 degrees retard.

Ya know, that might be part of the 'soft limiter', maybe used to differentiate performance. Gotta love marketing...

I'm not sure I understand your comment. The 2.5 SI is a euro car only and BMW needed to create as much power from the 2.5 liter motor as they could. Even the high speed threshold for the Disa is moved up to 7500 RPM.

I bet the final gear is much higher and the car is set up to rev more than the bigger N52.

Taskmaster · 11-21-2015, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjahl

Quote:

Originally Posted by justpete

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjahl

On a side note, Did you notice the BMW N52 based Z4 2.5 SI tune retards the intake cam to 124.9 degrees while our tunes are limited to 120? It's the same actuator as the 3.0. Do you think the extra 5 degrees is something we should try to use?

You did mentioned it would be good to have an extra 5 or 10 degrees retard.

Ya know, that might be part of the 'soft limiter', maybe used to differentiate performance. Gotta love marketing...

I'm not sure I understand your comment. The 2.5 SI is a euro car only and BMW needed to create as much power from the 2.5 liter motor as they could. Even the high speed threshold for the Disa is moved up to 7500 RPM.

I bet the final gear is much higher and the car is set up to rev more than the bigger N52.

Can you see if the cam retarding and dIsa threshold change anything?

rjahl · 11-21-2015, 04:14 PM

I've not tried the cam timing spread at the 125 degrees but I have moved the Disa threshold back to 7200 and it stopped closing before the gearshift. I still need more work on the soft limiter but it's really only kicking in around 6,850-6,900 rpm now. With a factory exhaust I don't se much point in going much further. I could be wrong.

Taskmaster · 11-21-2015, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjahl

I've not tried the cam timing spread at the 125 degrees but I have moved the Disa threshold back to 7200 and it stopped closing before the gearshift. I still need more work on the soft limiter but it's really only kicking in around 6,850-6,900 rpm now. With a factory exhaust I don't se much point in going much further. I could be wrong.

You should try it !!

rjahl · 11-21-2015, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjahl

I've not tried the cam timing spread at the 125 degrees but I have moved the Disa threshold back to 7200 and it stopped closing before the gearshift. I still need more work on the soft limiter but it's really only kicking in around 6,850-6,900 rpm now. With a factory exhaust I don't se much point in going much further. I could be wrong.

You should try it !!

I probably will but right now I'm a little stuck sorting out the dynamic load limiter and knock control. I think I can spot the point were the DME switches on the load control and the ignition advance goes to hell. Part throttle up to that point is great, really beyond my earlier hopes. I don't want to screw up the knock control and blow a motor, so it's research and test.

This tuning thing has been a fun road to travel but I'm getting a lot of pressure from my loving wife to pick up an IS 350. My only argument to keep the Z4 is financial, it's paid for.

justpete · 11-21-2015, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjahl

I'm not sure I understand your comment. The 2.5 SI is a euro car only and BMW needed to create as much power from the 2.5 liter motor as they could. Even the high speed threshold for the Disa is moved up to 7500 RPM.

I bet the final gear is much higher and the car is set up to rev more than the bigger N52.

Yes but I was wondering if the N52 Vanos limit is similar. Hadn't thought of how different cars/engines might be limited in this way. Y'all know way way more than I do. Back to lurking...

hassmaschine · 11-21-2015, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjahl

On a side note, Did you notice the BMW N52 based Z4 2.5 SI tune retards the intake cam to 124.9 degrees while our tunes are limited to 120? It's the same actuator as the 3.0. Do you think the extra 5 degrees is something we should try to use?

You did mentioned it would be good to have an extra 5 or 10 degrees retard.

Hm, interesting - i havent seen that. All the n52 tunes ive seen max out at 120 degrees. Do you have a binary i could look at?

If its not mechanically limited to 120 degrees, then yes another 5 degrees should pick up some power.

It would be nice to see what other changes they made. I already changed the upper threshold from 6900 to 7500 and it seems to help.

rjahl · 11-22-2015, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Hm, interesting - i havent seen that. All the n52 tunes ive seen max out at 120 degrees. Do you have a binary i could look at?

If its not mechanically limited to 120 degrees, then yes another 5 degrees should pick up some power.

It would be nice to see what other changes they made. I already changed the upper threshold from 6900 to 7500 and it seems to help.

Here you go,

I created a BIN from the S7581341.ODA file.

I'd like to see the actual dyno power curve from this motor.

Richard

Taskmaster · 11-22-2015, 04:43 PM

You know, it's just runners functioning like ITBs, if there was a larger plenum and a snorkel hooked to the TB/MAF, this would be a Plug and play (plus tuning) affair. Then again, AA got close to those numbers with the 3 stage and stock exhaust.

Taskmaster · 11-22-2015, 07:11 PM

What about an N54/N55 throttle body? That would be step one I imagine...

hassmaschine · 11-22-2015, 08:01 PM

Why not just delete it altogether?

11-21-2015, 07:32 AM	#48
hassmaschine Major General 3973 Rep 7,215 Posts Drives: "NBO" 330i Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: earth iTrader: (0)	could be VANOS tuning
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11-21-2015, 02:01 PM	#51
hassmaschine Major General 3973 Rep 7,215 Posts Drives: "NBO" 330i Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: earth iTrader: (0)	Who knows. It was still an automatic. Theres no real difference between a 325i and 328i engine.
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11-21-2015, 02:07 PM	#53
hassmaschine Major General 3973 Rep 7,215 Posts Drives: "NBO" 330i Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: earth iTrader: (0)	Its not the DME, they are the same as the 330i just with differences in the tune.
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11-21-2015, 04:14 PM	#58
rjahl Colonel 996 Rep 2,287 Posts Drives: Z4 35is Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Tampa iTrader: (0) Garage List 2012 Z4 35is [0.00]	I've not tried the cam timing spread at the 125 degrees but I have moved the Disa threshold back to 7200 and it stopped closing before the gearshift. I still need more work on the soft limiter but it's really only kicking in around 6,850-6,900 rpm now. With a factory exhaust I don't se much point in going much further. I could be wrong.
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11-22-2015, 04:43 PM	#64
Taskmaster Banned 2465 Rep 9,004 Posts Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Florida iTrader: (6)	You know, it's just runners functioning like ITBs, if there was a larger plenum and a snorkel hooked to the TB/MAF, this would be a Plug and play (plus tuning) affair. Then again, AA got close to those numbers with the 3 stage and stock exhaust.
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11-22-2015, 07:11 PM	#65
Taskmaster Banned 2465 Rep 9,004 Posts Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Florida iTrader: (6)	What about an N54/N55 throttle body? That would be step one I imagine...
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11-22-2015, 08:01 PM	#66
hassmaschine Major General 3973 Rep 7,215 Posts Drives: "NBO" 330i Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: earth iTrader: (0)	Why not just delete it altogether?
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